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Lex Luthor Basic Offense

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I see a lot of people saying "Is 112 all Lex has?" While I'm not even close to completely exploring Lex, here are the options I work with right now on offense:

So the main advantage you have as a Lex player, aside from the obvious setups, is space control. This means that, if he is played correctly, your opponent HAS to respect your ability to punish any slight whiff, mistake, or dash with Corps Charge. Add to this that if they continue to jump within range, you are free to knock them back to the ground with either Air Corps Charge or a jumping 3.

This means that opponents cannot get 'cute' in their offense against a good Lex; and once they start respecting your control of the space, you now have other options.

Starter-wise: j2 is very solid. +31 on block and the hitbox is big enough to be a nuissance. My BnB from j2 leads to 39% with a bar. Some characters will reach that meterless, but Lex will always be able to build meter again via zoning.

j3 on a standing/crounching opponent -> d1 -> Gravity Pull also leads to 39% with a similar BnB. So once you have your opponent respecting the air, they also have to respect your use of j3 as a spacing/footsie tool. Standing 3 will also knock your opponent back to 75% screen distance on hit.

b13 is a 14-frame low starter that's only -4 on block. Because it's 14 frames, you can't just spam it in close, but given that your opponent has to respect your 6-frame dash, after knockdowns and in neutral situations you can often move in and mix them up wit the low starter. It's also great in the corner. B1 alone is also +6 on block, so you can check someone who's blocking low with a b1 (reminds me of Sektor) and then punish them when they try to counterattack.

f2 is a 15-frame overhead. It's not completely safe (it's -8 on block), but given that a lot of opponents like to block low against lex thanks to his 11 being high and his low starter, f2 will catch them turtling and it's a full combo starter.

I tend to use Gravity Pull as the combo ender because it builds a good chunk of meter and sends them back to full screen, where you can then then go back into your orb/zoning/trap game and build yet more meter while they try to get back in.

Because your opponent is trying to get in, setting mines seems to be most useful during the period of time when you've knocked them away and they're trying to restart offense. If they are mindlessly jumping or moving in, laying a mine forces them to be more cautious, which gives you more time to harass them with orbs, lance blasts, and regular or enhanced Orbital Strike. (EN OS is safer at ranges just inside midscreen because it has less recovery and will AA them if they try to jump forward at you).

The orb sets up the laser, it anti-airs, and it also baits opponents into trying to jump out, which can lead to AA combos or mine traps for you.

Lex's d3 has a huge range, making it a solid footsie tool when spaced, and the knockdown from the sweep allows you to start playing mind games again, or move in and cross them up with j2 or get close, bait wakeups and punish.

Also Lex's armor after a closer-range knockdown catches anyone who tries to mindlessly get up and j-whatever, and will make options safe for you that normally wouldn't be.

I am still working on: wakeup game, super closeup-game and u3 uses (right now I end up doing d1 jump-away 3 as a safe way to space myself out a bit, but I know there are better options). Also corner traps and setups, and full uses for the trait. I've mostly been labbing with other characters, but seeing as how there's almost no Lex info here, I figured I'd at least share what I had.

So remember: j2, b13, f2, j3 -- if all you're doing is 112, take a look at lex's full list of options and get familiar with them.

WoundCowboy if you're maining Lex you probably have a lot more than I do at this point.
 

Thead

Noob
Good stuff CrimsonShadow

It's also probably worth mentioning again you get a free level 1 trait whenever a Corpse Charge hits, forward dash cancelling the trait sits you right next to the opponent too, allowing you to follow up with the options you've mentioned with free armour.

What BnB are you using? Currently I'm with 113/B31 ~ Gravity Pull MB, B3 Ji3, 11/21 ~ Mine/orb.

The mine can be used Close/Mid/Far for different oki, but I've found Mid best so far. Orb obviously sets you up for Orbital Strike shenanigans.

Also his standing 3 has a ridiculously long range, further than D3 iirc, with good pushback on hit, can't remember it's frame data off the top of my head tho.
 
great work Crimson Chin! im surprised there arnt more lex's online spamming J3 its like more viable than death stroke. like in general
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Good stuff CrimsonShadow
What BnB are you using? Currently I'm with 113/B31 ~ Gravity Pull MB, B3 Ji3, 11/21 ~ Mine/orb.

The mine can be used Close/Mid/Far for different oki, but I've found Mid best so far. Orb obviously sets you up for Orbital Strike shenanigans.
BnB-wise:
Standing: starter into Gravity Pull MB, b3, ji3, 11~GP. I like GP as an ender because GP adds extra damage, builds a nice bit of meter and leaves them all the way at fullscreen. But using orb is interesting as well, I'll have to try that out more.
Jumping 2 on hit into 22 instead of 11 for a bit of extra damage.
 
If you set up with a mine you can do B2U1D1, 11~Gp MB, B3, J2, 1, you can get 40%. I dont know if this would be viable at all because the timing isnt long on the mine and they have to be close enough to you for you to B2 them (and have them not attack you after throwing mine) so i could only imagine this being done if you started to throw mine when then they started tojump and crouch blocked when they landed.

First post
 

Obanye

Obanye - Bay Area - PSN
Thanks for all the info guys. I'm new to the NR style games so I would love some help on a few things.

1. What is Gp MB? I'm assuming gravity pull EX?

2. How do you get combos off of low hits, for example off of a D1 or low 1? Especially against characters like catwoman I don't know how to get damage on her when she's crouching.

3. Is ji3 really punishable on block? According to frame data it seems like it is but I haven't seem to have been punished yet.

Thanks for any replies.
 

Thead

Noob
BnB-wise:
Standing: starter into Gravity Pull MB, b3, ji3, 11~GP. I like GP as an ender because GP adds extra damage, builds a nice bit of meter and leaves them all the way at fullscreen. But using orb is interesting as well, I'll have to try that out more.
Jumping 2 on hit into 22 instead of 11 for a bit of extra damage.
Using 21 over 11 at the end of your combo will add an extra % damage wise. Nice tip on 22 after a Ji2 as well, although I'm finding it hard to hit confirm into Gravity Pull atm.

Standing 3 has slightly greater range than D3, and is only -1 on block compared to the -10 of the low. After Standing 3 connects Lance Blast can cause a headache for the opponent.

Another little thing, connecting B2 on a standing opponent causes a stagger state, which allows you to mix up with his B13 low and F2/B2 Overheads, or if you take a tiny step forward you can immediately throw. You can take advantage of this in a combo if you have performed Gravity Pull MB late during the combo (example - B3, Ji3, 21 Gravity Pull MB, B2 [30%]).

This will leave your opponent staggered and directly in front of you at your mercy. Thanks to PND_Ketchup for the B2 idea.
 
Thanks for all the info guys. I'm new to the NR style games so I would love some help on a few things.

1. What is Gp MB? I'm assuming gravity pull EX?

2. How do you get combos off of low hits, for example off of a D1 or low 1? Especially against characters like catwoman I don't know how to get damage on her when she's crouching.

3. Is ji3 really punishable on block? According to frame data it seems like it is but I haven't seem to have been punished yet.

Thanks for any replies.
Sorry i should have said Gravity pull.
 

Thead

Noob
Thanks for all the info guys. I'm new to the NR style games so I would love some help on a few things.

1. What is Gp MB? I'm assuming gravity pull EX?

2. How do you get combos off of low hits, for example off of a D1 or low 1? Especially against characters like catwoman I don't know how to get damage on her when she's crouching.

3. Is ji3 really punishable on block? According to frame data it seems like it is but I haven't seem to have been punished yet.

Thanks for any replies.
1) Yes GP MB stands for Gravity Pull Meter Burn.

2) The only strings that naturally combo are in the Moves List under 'Combo Attacks'. Most attacks (but not all) can be cancelled into a special move, so for example to combo off a D1 with Lex, you can do D1~Corp Charge. Not all special attacks will automatically combo after a hit connects however. For example with Lex, D1~Lance Blast does not combo, and the Lance Blast can be blocked.

3) You can test what's punishable and not in Practice Mode. In 'AI Options' set Block Mode to Always, Reversal Mode on, and Reversal Attack to whatever the AIs quickest special is (Corp Charge at 6f for Lex). This will make the AI block your attack then couter-attack on the first possible frame. Lexs Ji3 seems very safe, it may be -8, but it can't be punished by the 6f Corp Charge unless you activate the Ji3 VERY early in the jump.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Thanks for all the info guys. I'm new to the NR style games so I would love some help on a few things.

1. What is Gp MB? I'm assuming gravity pull EX?

2. How do you get combos off of low hits, for example off of a D1 or low 1? Especially against characters like catwoman I don't know how to get damage on her when she's crouching.

3. Is ji3 really punishable on block? According to frame data it seems like it is but I haven't seem to have been punished yet.

Thanks for any replies.
1. GP is Gravity Pull, MB stands for Meter Burn, which is when you spend a bar of meter to enhance the move after it's active. In Lex's case the Meter Burn pulls the opponent toward you so you can continue the combo.

2. D1 can be directly linked to specials like Gravity Pull, but it's risky because you don't have time to confirm that the d1 hit. You can use overheads, jmping normals, etc. But because Catwoman has some very fast normals, I'd probably want to put some space bewtween myself and her. That's why I mentioned the d1 to jump-away 3 in the original post.

Because the low/overhead are 14/15 frames, you usually want to set them up before you use them rather than just throwing them out in neutral situations.. So find your spacing or get an advantage, then go to work.

3. ji3 is technically -8 on block, but 1) the frame data of a move seems to vary based on how high you are when it comes out, and 2) A correctly-spaced j3 is too far away for someone to jab-punish. There are exceptions, like superman's 3 frame super, but in general if you are correctly spacing the j3 it's difficult to impossible for a lot of people to punish.

Remember to use j2 at the correct distance, though. The key to all of these moves is to use them at the right spacing in the right situation.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Also to add one thing: I just cracked the strategy guide open a few minutes ago, and Tom (at least it sounds like his voice) says that d1 gives you enough advantage on hit to go into a b13/f2 50/50. I checked, and d1 is +11 on hit, which is a lot of advantage. So at 7 frames that's something else Lex's opponents will have to respect.
 

Reptile Orion

A Fire Will Rise.
A ton of great information. I've never considered playing as Luthor. But after reading this info I could see him being very dangerous in the hands of the right player.
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Luther is a very solid character.Crimson mentioned most of his stuff, but I will add a few things:
AA: corp charge, dash back and standing 2 are the best options. Although standing 2 is slow, it has a huge hitbox and leads to a one bar, 37% combo.

Trait: despite what many have said, lex does not get a free trait off of a corp charge. Characters with fast wake ups will be able to hit you before you get a chance to move. I end most of my combos with 2,2 into trait so that they do not get a free wake up. I think the next thing we need to explore with lex is canceling into trait off of strings. Start exploring.

Zoning: because lex has slow projectiles, you are usually going to have to find ways to get in and score a knockdown. His normal dash can close distance fast so long as you use it at the proper time. It is vital that you use every opportunity to get an orb on screen, which can mean after you block or evade a projectile. It changes the match because it opens up his zoning options (gun and laser blast) and makes it easier to dash in because the opponent has to respect it.

I would also like to mention that the range on Lex's throw is HUGE, so don't be afraid to dash in and use it. That's it for now.
 

_CHINOCUDEIRO_

Machakabotones
Ji3 is free, but does anyone knows (i think so) that you can use Ji3+corp charge for easy 19% in any situation an without fear on block? Also you can do it crossup changing the inputs of corp charge , and at any height...

Another thing I found yesterday is that the way Bruce Willis do the MBDC is NOT with dash....you need to use the inputs of DB+MB .It cost two bars but have a bounce and a combo from nearly everything
 

PPJ

()
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
22d1 for dat frame advantage, corner its a combo (same with f2) but midscreen you get a corps charge
b2 on hit is good for tick throw setups
22b3.... safe low mixup nuff said
half charged gun gives you a free corps charge
lex's uppercut is bad, I'd say don't use it
 

Thead

Noob
Trait: despite what many have said, lex does not get a free trait off of a corp charge. Characters with fast wake ups will be able to hit you before you get a chance to move. I end most of my combos with 2,2 into trait so that they do not get a free wake up. I think the next thing we need to explore with lex is canceling into trait off of strings. Start exploringd use it.
Have you got some examples of wakeup moves that beat Corp Charge into trait, that are not punishable after they hit the trait armour?

I've tested with wakeup Corp Charge, and you're able to punish.
 

Dapman

Currently playing as Lex Luthor.
Just curious, as a Lex user (though I plan to learn a variety of characters in the future), what are my most reliable options when punishing crouching characters or those with moves/specials that leave them in a crouch state? This is of course assuming they are unsafe.

I'm aware of the amazing j+3, so my question is more directed at my ground punishment options. Does lex have any fast mids or overheads I may have overlooked? Thank you for any response.
 

BDMao88

Filthy Casual
b,f+2 corpse charge is 6(?)frame i belive and is easy punish
d1 is 6 frames I believe, gives you +11 on hit and -1 on block. This allows you to do F2 which is a 15 frame overhead that allows you to grav pull MB full combo. When your opponent gets use to this use just do b13 after a confirmed d1 which is 14 frames, but by landing the d1 it brings up a 50/50 situation since after d1 your low is 3 frames and overhead is 4 frames.

If they are being a crouch whore just throw out the F3 grav pull mb. IMO it's still pretty fast and catches a lot of people off.
 
d1 is 6 frames I believe, gives you +11 on hit and -1 on block. This allows you to do F2 which is a 15 frame overhead that allows you to grav pull MB full combo. When your opponent gets use to this use just do b13 after a confirmed d1 which is 14 frames, but by landing the d1 it brings up a 50/50 situation since after d1 your low is 3 frames and overhead is 4 frames.

If they are being a crouch whore just throw out the F3 grav pull mb. IMO it's still pretty fast and catches a lot of people off.
Great stuff, I never thought of using that frame advantage on hit for the overhead. I will need to test some more things like this out when I get home. I rarely abuse his f2 overhead because it always seems a bit too slow, but it seems like there are turning out to be a lot of good places to throw it out.
 
ok so ive been screwing around with that combo i posted earlier (if you use U3 at the end instead of 11 it bumps it up to a 44% combo for 1 bar of meter). Basically just throw down mine after you throw them across the screen and start walking towards the mine. If they jump over the mine blow them up with B2U3D3 into the mine and full punish them for 44% and then repeat lazer/lance MB lazer etc..

Now if they have a ranged wake up just armor at the end of said string at beginning eat their wake up then missle their faces and dont try this combo.