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Lex Luthor 1.06 Patch Notes

Again, I can not disagree with this more. I think the start-up on all of his gadgets is just fine. If you try to just throw them out without any thought, then you get interrupted and punished, which you should. He's a set-up character that requires thought and strategy. You gotta pick your spots. I'd go through through 3 or 4 matches in a row without getting anything interrupted.

People don't realize how much of a beast Lex is when he gets his trait up and his toys out. If he could just get that going at will without working for it, he'd be dumb and boring.
Not trying to be irrational but he does need work. For example I could hit deathstroke with an CC or standing 3 and try to throw an orb. I'll get it out but I'll take damage from gun shots easily. That just doesn't seem right. I can't knock my opponent down throw out an orb and block from across the screen. Even if it was a force block I could live with it.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
Not trying to be irrational but he does need work. For example I could hit deathstroke with an CC or standing 3 and try to throw an orb. I'll get it out but I'll take damage from gun shots easily. That just doesn't seem right. I can't knock my opponent down throw out an orb and block from across the screen. Even if it was a force block I could live with it.
For sure, DS is a good example how hard it can be to get setup tools out. But you have to recognize that some matchups, like DS, you have to play very differently. You can still get your orbs out, you just have to cancel into it with your ender (what i usually do against DS instead of mines). It just makes it a bad matchup though, imo. He will still probably have trouble with zoners but I'm worried another buff could make him too good in other matchups.
 
For sure, DS is a good example how hard it can be to get setup tools out. But you have to recognize that some matchups, like DS, you have to play very differently. You can still get your orbs out, you just have to cancel into it with your ender (what i usually do against DS instead of mines). It just makes it a bad matchup though, imo. He will still probably have trouble with zoners but I'm worried another buff could make him too good in other matchups.
IMO if there was concern that improving his start ups would make him OP the least they could do was improve the start up of his trait. It would simply allow you to activate more safely. It wouldn't make him OP unless having 1 hit of armor is OP. Also they could have improved his dashes. Those are two easy ways they could have buffed him without rocking the boat too much. I still prefer better start ups on specials but if we got this at least it would be something.

But like I said time will tell what this iteration of Lex is capable of.
 

ShadowBeatz

Dropper of Bass and Bombs
He's got a top 3 trait in the game. Just because Batman or Aquaman don't have to work for their great traits, doesn't mean that should be the standard. The thing has VERY little cooldown and if they made it any easier to activate, it would be borderline OP. And I've already stated my opinions on faster start up of his gadgets too.

Improve his dash, yeah I can give you that one. Does he need it? No, not at all. But even I have to admit it would be nice.


If you guys want to play an easy character, there are about 10 other characters you can choose :p
 
He's got a top 3 trait in the game. Just because Batman or Aquaman don't have to work for their great traits, doesn't mean that should be the standard. The thing has VERY little cooldown and if they made it any easier to activate, it would be borderline OP. And I've already stated my opinions on faster start up of his gadgets too.

Improve his dash, yeah I can give you that one. Does he need it? No, not at all. But even I have to admit it would be nice.


If you guys want to play an easy character, there are about 10 other characters you can choose :p
Nothing to do with playing an easy character man. Balance is what it's about. A few frames faster would hardly make it too easy to activate. Yes Lex is a thinking man's character and that is what I like about him. I just don't want to have to be 50 steps ahead of my opponent to get a little something going.

Just agree to disagree. We just have different opinions of Lex's success and lack of success thus far.
 
He's got a top 3 trait in the game. Just because Batman or Aquaman don't have to work for their great traits, doesn't mean that should be the standard. The thing has VERY little cooldown and if they made it any easier to activate, it would be borderline OP. And I've already stated my opinions on faster start up of his gadgets too.

Improve his dash, yeah I can give you that one. Does he need it? No, not at all. But even I have to admit it would be nice.


If you guys want to play an easy character, there are about 10 other characters you can choose :p
Explain to me again why he's been low mid or low tier for this long yet doesn't need an improvement to his dash?
 
Nothing to do with playing an easy character man. Balance is what it's about. A few frames faster would hardly make it too easy to activate. Yes Lex is a thinking man's character and that is what I like about him. I just don't want to have to be 50 steps ahead of my opponent to get a little something going.

Just agree to disagree. We just have different opinions of Lex's success and lack of success thus far.
Aquaman's trait is getting a longer cool-down time
Batman's trait is getting a longer cool-down time
Black Adam's trait is getting a longer cool-down time
Cyborg's trait is getting a longer cool-down time
Deathstroke's trait is getting a longer cool-down time
Harley's trait is getting a longer cool-down time

That's in patch 1.06 alone. In half these characters, the longer cool-down time is because the trait in general needs a nerf. For the other half the longer cool-down is to compensate to make sure the other buffed-aspect of the trait does not make it overpowered.

Lex's trait is awesome, and you get it free after any combo or any corp charge knockdown, which are very common. But the greatest thing about it is that the cooldown is almost non-existent. When Lex players need the trait so they can apply free extra pressure, or get out effective setups easier, it's always there.

Ask any the top Lex players if they'd take a damage-reduction buff or a quicker activation time buff in exchange for getting a longer cool-down to compensate, and you'll always get a "No" The quick cool-down would make his trait completely OP if it had a quick activation AND a quick cool-down. And it is clear Lex benefits most from the trait pretty much always being ready to activate.
 
Explain to me again why he's been low mid or low tier for this long yet doesn't need an improvement to his dash?

Green Lantern has an awful dash speed, and he's a top-tier character.

With the probe buff, and assuming the lance blast buff is substantial, he won't need a better dash to be solid mid-tier. That's evidence enough that his tier placement doesn't rely soley on his awful dash speed.
 
Green Lantern has an awful dash speed, and he's a top-tier character.

With the probe buff, and assuming the lance blast buff is substantial, he won't need a better dash to be solid mid-tier. That's evidence enough that his tier placement doesn't rely soley on his awful dash speed.
That's because Lantern has better tools to fight zoners than Lex to make up for his bad dash. Lex has bad tools and a bad dash ontop of the worst hurtbox in the game.
 
That's because Lantern has better tools to fight zoners than Lex to make up for his bad dash. Lex has bad tools and a bad dash ontop of the worst hurtbox in the game.
Lex's hurtbox is also one of his greatest strengths. The hitbox and reach on all his attacks are huge. He can AA with his standing 2 or Corp Charge easily. Lex is one of the few characters who can easily AA the entire cast in a game that is currently notorious for lacking enough decent AA's and having too much safe-jumping, and that's all thanks to his size.

And Lex doesn't need to get in very far from zoners. He can only be zoned out at full screen. Once he's in corp-charge distance, alot of zoning attacks aren't safe. Cyborg, Sinestro and Deathstroke are the only really tough zoner matchups, and the Sinestro matchup might become a bit more manageable with the lance blast buff. All the other ones are manageable.
 
Lex's hurtbox is also one of his greatest strengths. The hitbox and reach on all his attacks are huge. He can AA with his standing 2 or Corp Charge easily. Lex is one of the few characters who can easily AA the entire cast in a game that is currently notorious for lacking enough decent AA's and having too much safe-jumping, and that's all thanks to his size.

And Lex doesn't need to get in very far from zoners. He can only be zoned out at full screen. Once he's in corp-charge distance, alot of zoning attacks aren't safe. Cyborg, Sinestro and Deathstroke are the only really tough zoner matchups, and the Sinestro matchup might become a bit more manageable with the lance blast buff. All the other ones are manageable.
But as a result of his hurtbox he gets stuck in really really tight blockstun and get's crossed up by extremely random air moves that are infront of him (Looking at you Batman)

Green Lantern and Joker are also fairly dumb MU's since they never have to walk forward against Lex...ever.

Don't forget the Killer frost and Zod Matchup now, oh the sillyness of Lex's fat slow hurtbox with terrible dash and no real answer to their pressure or zoning aside from hoping they screw up for a CC to get in...
 
But as a result of his hurtbox he gets stuck in really really tight blockstun and get's crossed up by extremely random air moves that are infront of him (Looking at you Batman)

Green Lantern and Joker are also fairly dumb MU's since they never have to walk forward against Lex...ever.

Don't forget the Killer frost and Zod Matchup now, oh the sillyness of Lex's fat slow hurtbox with terrible dash and no real answer to their pressure or zoning aside from hoping they screw up for a CC to get in...
Getting zoned out and having to get in doesn't make it a bad matchup,

But if you're having issues with MU's, I definitely recommend just asking questions in MU discussion. For example- Killer Frost, much like Aquaman, has a tracking ranged attack, called "Iceberg" I think that KF players love to use. One of the advantages Lex has in his dash is he can dash out of his trait, and it is one of the farthest-reaching forward dashes in the game. On a good read, you can trait-dash forward through an Iceberg (for Killer Frost) or "From the Deep" (Aquaman), and get a punish or at least a 50/50 with advantage. This can also be done against Sinestro provided he doesn't have any meter by which he can make fear-blast a multi-hit on reaction.

Also, Lex I believe can counter-zone GL.
 
Getting zoned out and having to get in doesn't make it a bad matchup,

But if you're having issues with MU's, I definitely recommend just asking questions in MU discussion. For example- Killer Frost, much like Aquaman, has a tracking ranged attack, called "Iceberg" I think that KF players love to use. One of the advantages Lex has in his dash is he can dash out of his trait, and it is one of the farthest-reaching forward dashes in the game. On a good read, you can trait-dash forward through an Iceberg (for Killer Frost) or "From the Deep" (Aquaman), and get a punish or at least a 50/50 with advantage. This can also be done against Sinestro provided he doesn't have any meter by which he can make fear-blast a multi-hit on reaction.

Also, Lex I believe can counter-zone GL.
Getting zoned out and having few options to get in without hurting yourself is what makes the MU bad. Again look at Sinestro :V

The iceberg at max range is annoying but unlike Sinestro who can beat Lex from zoning alone because of how good it is against him, KF has insanely good close range options for when Lex actually does get close (that flipping slide and ridiculous damaging combos). Trait dashing isn't available all the time and does not net enough reward unless the opponent does something incredibly ambiguous at mid range (and to try do it on reaction to absorb a move means Lex takes MORE damage because he didn't have time to get leve; 2 or 3 trait).

Aquaman is also a character who still does much better at mid to close range than Lex does ONTOP of his long range options. Deathstroke is similar in many ways with his close range mixups and GTF off me moves.
 
Getting zoned out and having few options to get in without hurting yourself is what makes the MU bad. Again look at Sinestro :V

The iceberg at max range is annoying but unlike Sinestro who can beat Lex from zoning alone because of how good it is against him, KF has insanely good close range options for when Lex actually does get close (that flipping slide and ridiculous damaging combos). Trait dashing isn't available all the time and does not net enough reward unless the opponent does something incredibly ambiguous at mid range (and to try do it on reaction to absorb a move means Lex takes MORE damage because he didn't have time to get leve; 2 or 3 trait).

Aquaman is also a character who still does much better at mid to close range than Lex does ONTOP of his long range options. Deathstroke is similar in many ways with his close range mixups and GTF off me moves.
I learn alot from Lex by watching high-level play. If you are saying Aquaman holds all the cards at long range and mid range, I think you need to see the proper counters for it:

Especially mid-range, where Aquaman has two options:

1) throw out a slow attack that can be punished by corp-charge
2) allow Lex to get out a mine/probe/shield

I'm not saying Lex destroys Aquaman, and it certainly can be a tough fight, but Lex has tools, and if you observe during this match, the Lex player is careful to stay at mid-range whenever he can. Lex just dominates AM there.

Watch what happens around 6:00


*** Here's some notes on where to find Lex tech being used in the match, and then I'll see if I can point out where in the video the tech is being used, and then provide a link to where you can find a detailed explanation on this sub-forum. Hopefully that will help you out :) ***

8:15 trait-dash cancel punish. There's not a tech place for this on the forum since it's pretty specific to only a few characters' ranged attacks.

7:00 This is a mine setup that uses a mine after a knock-down, and follows up with a jump-in. It makes a very difficult to block low-overhead mixup. It can be avoided by a tech roll or even stuffed by some good horizantal wakeups (Deathstroke's sword flip will armor through the mine and stuff the jump in)

At 1:00 there is a brilliant fake-out where the Shazaam player is expecting the previous mine-j2 setup to be used, but instead the Lex player lands into a throw setup. Alot of Lex's throw setups come after probe and grav-mine setups which usually means the Lex player is going to go into a 50/50 for higher damage but instead get thrown.

7:10 (this can be found here: http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/lex-luthor-tech-gimmicks.37998/)
After a knockdown, you can trait-dash forward than neutral jump on the downed enemy for a ridiculously ambiguous crossup. Best used in the corner.

8:00 (this can be found here: http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/lexs-1-1-string-advantage.36755/) following up a grav pull with a 11 gives Lex ridiculously huge advantage on hit, and allows him an additional 50/50. Since you don't get a massive damage bonus off risking the additional 50/50 after the 11-reset, it is best used in corner or after stage bounce combos because Lex gets extra damage off the start-ups to help tip the risk-reward scales.

10:50 Just want to point out here that when Lex has his shields up, Corpse Charge is basically his new forward dash because it's unpunishable. At low-level play I find alot of people will instinctively try to punish corp charge even after Lex has trait active, which usually ends very badly for them :)
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
lol @ that being high level play

and yeah, with trait up against certain characters you can literally just keep doing corp charge lol.
 

Drizzle

Jump and shoot.
Isn't corp charge still punishable by fast moves like d1? Even with the armor, it still has the same recovery, doesn't it?
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
Isn't corp charge still punishable by fast moves like d1? Even with the armor, it still has the same recovery, doesn't it?
Yes, and some characters can punish it with armor if they have a multi-hitting move/string faster than 23f. But a lot of characters don't.
 

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
I dont know what this means: · Overall hit box adjustments to make combos more consistent.

Do you guys have find you have inconsistent combos? Sometimes I feel like 11 and 22 wont juggle correctly or easily in certain situations and that's about all I can think of.