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Lack of recovery frames

Jowabunga

Woooooooooooooo!
I've been seeing something happening vs a buddy who plays baraka for months now and I have to get clarity on it because it's making me want to quit this game. Specifically, frequently through our matches he'll engage in behavior when jumping where he will whiff a jump attack, I'll go to punish or take my turn, and I'll get hit out of whatever I'm doing, even my fastest moves, as if baraka has no recovery frames due to the jump in or whiffed attack. Just to reiterate, this happens CONSTANTLY and I'm not sure if I'm completely on crack or if there is something to this. Thanks
 

Parasurama

Dragon
I've been seeing something happening vs a buddy who plays baraka for months now and I have to get clarity on it because it's making me want to quit this game. Specifically, frequently through our matches he'll engage in behavior when jumping where he will whiff a jump attack, I'll go to punish or take my turn, and I'll get hit out of whatever I'm doing, even my fastest moves, as if baraka has no recovery frames due to the jump in or whiffed attack. Just to reiterate, this happens CONSTANTLY and I'm not sure if I'm completely on crack or if there is something to this. Thanks
I think showing a video in this case would be helpful in getting an answer.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Lead Moderator
Well like all air attacks including air projectiles, air normals and so on, the recovery frames are contingent on height for punishment or safety.

The video I am providing illustrates this point where when at max height of a whiffed jump normal I get an 11 frame mid to punish but when I try to punish as he reaches the ground he is safe or even neutral because even down 1 won't punish.



This is all important to understand because if you're not on point and try to attack late, the opponent has already recovered enough to not be unsafe. This inquiry took me 2 minutes to test in training mode.

Whiffed jump ins aren't free, but you will have to practice it and learn your appropriate timings.


I didn't discuss the online connections you two may have, but it sounds like you're mad at the game for something you can learn to do of your own accord. Also if I can punish with an 11 frame mid, that means you can punish with a much faster jab. You punish for 25+% every time or at least most of the time your friend whiffs Baraka's jump kick, he'll stop doing that OR he won't and he will lose and either way you win @Jowabunga
 

Jowabunga

Woooooooooooooo!
Hrm, stopped in to reply to this and noticed the latest that came in 45 minutes ago is ... gone? Hrm. Regardless..

I don't play kombat league or ranked. Virtually all of my gameplay (thousands of matches) is with the same person, mostly online. Last night we were playing offline, so net-based latency can probably be ruled out as a contributing factor.

I've also played MKX and IIJ2 extensively with the same person, thousands of matches at this point. I did not see this behavior in either of those games.

Because of this and other shit in MK11 I've turned into quite a lab rat. I have looked at this frame by frame (or as close as the replay system would allow) in the past and we did it again last night, so I'm familiar with the minus frame decrease lower to the ground. In the few examples we looked at last night, the minus was anywhere between 13 and 15 so the J#s are clearly coming out closer to the ground. This leaves a margin of 20-25 frames to respond before a follow-up attack (7-8 frame S1, usually). I'm older so my reflexes may not be what they used to be, but ultimately if I couldn't react within a 20-frame window I would not be able to play this game at any level successfully.... and I do.

The input streams weren't conclusive from either player. In some examples, buttons I thought I'd hit never showed up in the audit, but in others they did (but just never came out).

Possibilities:

--Like I said, I'm older. Maybe I should move on to The Sims.
--This game eats inputs in a way neither of the previous games did. Because of recovery frames and inability to determine when it's actually your turn this is nearly impossible to confirm but it's a suspicion I've had for a while.
--something wonky is happening with the frame data, possibiy discrepancies between the move data tables and the moves themselves. This isn't unprecendented (e.g. raiden's move table showing 29 frames recovery when it's actually 19 per the in-lab data tool., Spawn's 24U32 string behaving as if it's -42 on block in the corner despite it being +4 in the table).

I'd prefer to believe this is MY issue and not the game, which is why I stopped here to get input. :) I appreciate the response.