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Labbing Kabals third variation, how good is he really?

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
So since I heard kabals third variation includes gas blast and low spinner I was pretty disappointed since I really wanted his airdash to be a thing, I never liked gas blast and didn't even know low spinner existed. you can't have everything I guess so I still made a custom variation to lab how this variation plays and surprisingly gas blast and hook grab have a great synergy in the corner. here are my thoughts about this variation:

the bad things first:
  • outside of the corner gas blast is pretty useless. it's range is so bad you can't use it as an ender if you're not leaving a lot of damage on the table for being +5 at a really weird range where you don't profit from it at all
  • without cancel, low hook or low buzzsaw gas blast isn't as good as it could be in the corner. don't get me wrong this move is amazing in the corner even without these moves but it has much more potential with these moves combined
  • low spinner feels out of place it's not utterly useless but it doesn't feel like it has it's place in this variation. dash cancel would fit WAY better in this variation since you have a +5 restand in the corner so you can force f4 but without the cancel you don't get much out of it. however it has it's uses which I'll get into detail in the pro list
  • it's quite meter dependend
  • I don't find amp gas blast that useful you don't really need more plusframes than +5 as far as I labbed. maybe there is some stuff with his healing cloud and dot damage but I couldn't find anything yet.
now the good things:
  • this variation is a damage monster my god. it's not neccessarily the bnb's but this variation punishes everything with high damage and hits like a truck
  • gas blast is the best corner combo ender in any variation in combination with hook grab since the gravity after hook grab is never too high to hit 23~gas blast, meaning you have access to really high damage combos with a restand as an ender
  • gas blast negates wakeups and garantuees a d1,d3 and f4 followup, d4 against 7f d1 and f2 against 8f d1 characters
  • if you're willing to use 2 bars low spinner has corner carry from midscreen to the corner and even garantuees you gas blast as an ender for 34% which is still more than some characters can get with 2 bars
  • you can cash out damage where you couldn't before with hook grab
  • jumping at kabal now actually gets you killed. he gets 36-40% from an anti air depending on where you are
here are some things I found. some are good, some are cool and some are just dumb.

midscreen from your mids (b12 and f22) you get 32% with 1 bar which is 3% more than you get with clean cut or mean streak:

almost 37% from a 9f punish

52% midscreen to corner into +5 restand from db4kb. just watch this corner carry it's ridiculous

low spinner corner carry from midscreen

43% midscreen from b12d2 kb

midscreen d3 anti air 36% for 1 bar which is dumb

corner b12d2 42% combo into +5 restand

corner bnb 1 bar 33% from your mid into +5 restand

corner 40% jik combo into +5 restand

now this is dumb.you get a 71% punish when you're cornered and have access to FB and punish with db4 KB

58% when you don't have access to FB into +5 restand

you can cash out with 2 bars now when you're cornered and your opponent jumps at you for 41%

36% from a flawless block u2 which is one of the highest of not the highest fbu2 punish if I remember correctly

this is everything interesting I've found so far. now do I think this variation is good? Yes I do. at first I thought this variation is gonna be pretty mediocre and hook grab is the only good thing about it but now I think it really fits with the other two variations. you still have amazing mids and neutral game, diagonal buzzsaw and now kabal gains something he lacked in before kinda which is damage. now he hits harder than most of the cast at the cost of mix and pressure. If I had to guess this variation has the possibility to be his best one imo but we will see how the patch is going to affect him as a whole.

@Eldriken @The_Tile @Braindead @SaltShaker
 
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Eldriken

Guest
Ohhhhhh. Nicely done, sir. Definitely gonna check all of this out.

I read mostly everything, but I didn't watch the videos.

Do keep in mind that these abilities may have received some adjustments (both good and bad), so not everything may be the same.

Here's hoping Hook Grab goes untouched (that dammy) and the other two abilities get buffed. ...>.>
 

S+ Main

Noob
Saving this combos for some post patch kombat league where I say I've been a kabal main since day 1.

I've also wanted the air grab move from the beta he does dummy damage, and the info on the gas blast was Hella useful cause I've never used that move.

Very good thread.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Ohhhhhh. Nicely done, sir. Definitely gonna check all of this out.

I read mostly everything, but I didn't watch the videos.

Do keep in mind that these abilities may have received some adjustments (both good and bad), so not everything may be the same.

Here's hoping Hook Grab goes untouched (that dammy) and the other two abilities get buffed. ...>.>
yeah I'm curious how this variation will turn out in the end. I hope hook grab stays the same, if it scales much more post patch I don't see why you would play this variation instead if clean cut. if gas blast and low spinner will get buffed I'd be really happy even if it's not too neccessary. midscreen you still have db4 as an ender for amazing oki and in the corner gas blast is as good as it can get. low spinner isn't too useful but the corner carry is extremely good on it

Saving this combos for some post patch kombat league where I say I've been a kabal main since day 1.

I've also wanted the air grab move from the beta he does dummy damage, and the info on the gas blast was Hella useful cause I've never used that move.

Very good thread.
thank, I appreciate it!
 
Here's hoping these combo still work when the update rows out. They just need to adjust the scaling because taking nearing half your life is nuts which is what Sonya used to do. I don't want to be seeing a future nerf, since Kabal escape freely during the post Evo update.
 

DoDaMuSiC

Ermac ftw
Hopefully low spinner gets changed to be a low (lol) so he can get some mix ups after the restand.
Also you can hit gas blast midscreen after any juggle as well, just got do a dash up and raw gas after an amp hook grab and it will connect.
 

S+ Main

Noob
Here's hoping these combo still work when the update rows out. They just need to adjust the scaling because taking nearing half your life is nuts which is what Sonya used to do. I don't want to be seeing a future nerf, since Kabal escape freely during the post Evo update.
whoa whoa slow down there buddy, we don't want to rush into things so I think we can leave the damage on the table until there is solid evidence that its to much. if it does do to much damage we can just nerf jade to make up for it.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Hopefully low spinner gets changed to be a low (lol) so he can get some mix ups after the restand.
Also you can hit gas blast midscreen after any juggle as well, just got do a dash up and raw gas after an amp hook grab and it will connect.
Yeah but the damage drop is really not worth it when db4 is better ender midscreen
 
@Blewdew good stuff! You did the heavy lifting for most of us lol. Does he loses his straight buzzsaw projectile in this variation?
The air straight buzzsaw? That move is exclusive to meanstreak. His diagonal one is universal unless the straight one is selected.

whoa whoa slow down there buddy, we don't want to rush into things so I think we can leave the damage on the table until there is solid evidence that its to much. if it does do to much damage we can just nerf jade to make up for it.
You know what? Now that I think about it, I don't mind the truck damage. He has no way of opening you up. So I think it's a fair trade when you do land a hit.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
The air straight buzzsaw? That move is exclusive to meanstreak. His diagonal one is universal unless the straight one is selected.


You know what? Now that I think about it, I don't mind the truck damage. He has no way of opening you up. So I think it's a fair trade when you do land a hit.
The truck damage comes from punishes most of the time. From his main starters b12 and f22 he get‘s a 3% damage increase which is nice but the main source for these ridiculous numbers will be 23 punishes, b12d2/db4 kb and anti airs. He can still be played extremely annoying and stale like clean cut due to diagonal buzzsaw being universal and b1 staggers, I‘m really curious how the variation will be after the patch.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
I also thought Gas Blast was going to be useless but I found setups that put a cloud in front of them that heals Kabal and hurts opponent as DoT's/HoT's.
This adds tones of potential damage and sustain not to mention corner game and removes the opponents ability to wakeup but we already have that with B1 OS.

I think the high damage will make a huge difference and I'm thinking I'll pick up this variation even though I wanted air dash more. He hits like Baraka but has far better base tools than Raka does.

I think there is something to the Cloud from Gas Blast having a looping throw and strikes can put them in it. So on every touch he can put them and himself in the healing/dot. Maybe a 30-40% into a cloud setup.

For an idea of how strong his healing is from cloud:
Scarlet gets 7%
Kotal gets 0.55% per tick
Kabal gets 0.5% per tick

Kotal can literally negate zoning chip with his sunlight and I'm betting it will be the same for Kabal.
Scarlet can sustain matches with just her single 3.5-7% heals that cost bars.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
I also thought Gas Blast was going to be useless but I found setups that put a cloud in front of them that heals Kabal and hurts opponent as DoT's/HoT's.
This adds tones of potential damage and sustain not to mention corner game and removes the opponents ability to wakeup but we already have that with B1 OS.

I think the high damage will make a huge difference and I'm thinking I'll pick up this variation even though I wanted air dash more. He hits like Baraka but has far better base tools than Raka does.

I think there is something to the Cloud from Gas Blast having a looping throw and strikes can put them in it. So on every touch he can put them and himself in the healing/dot. Maybe a 30-40% into a cloud setup.

For an idea of how strong his healing is from cloud:
Scarlet gets 7%
Kotal gets 0.55% per tick
Kabal gets 0.5% per tick

Kotal can literally negate zoning chip with his sunlight and I'm betting it will be the same for Kabal.
Scarlet can sustain matches with just her single 3.5-7% heals that cost bars.
The main thing about gas blast being amazing in the corner isn‘t only the possibility to negate wakeups but having an high damage ender you can combine with hook grab without loosing corner position. In this variation once you have them in the corner there is absolutely no reason to go for anything else. B1 os is super useful for mean streak but this variation just does it way better with gas blast.

I‘m also curious about setups with the cloud, safe ways to set it up without loosing too much damage etc. We‘ll see how it turns out once the patch actually drops.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
The main thing about gas blast being amazing in the corner isn‘t only the possibility to negate wakeups but having an high damage ender you can combine with hook grab without loosing corner position. In this variation once you have them in the corner there is absolutely no reason to go for anything else. B1 os is super useful for mean streak but this variation just does it way better with gas blast.

I‘m also curious about setups with the cloud, safe ways to set it up without loosing too much damage etc. We‘ll see how it turns out once the patch drops
Yeah I'm betting some if his specials are adjusted like others. Maybe even the fuzzy on mix but who knows? I'd like for more of his buttons to connect with gas blast but if not we will figure it out.
 
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Eldriken

Guest
How does the b1 OS work again? I skimmed over it and forgot to return to it so I could practice it. >.>

Also, I'm liking what I see being discussed. Hopefully Gas Blast doesn't change too much (if at all) so this stuff will still apply.
 

Arqwart

Fatal Blowing at the Speed of Liiiiight
How does the b1 OS work again? I skimmed over it and forgot to return to it so I could practice it. >.>

Also, I'm liking what I see being discussed. Hopefully Gas Blast doesn't change too much (if at all) so this stuff will still apply.
The only hope I have for gas blast changes is to slightly increase the size of un-amp'd blast so it's easier to use effectively outside the corner.

Overall, I am 100% going to drop Clean Cut for this variation when the patch drops. Hook Grab is one of my favorite moves in this game, and I see Gas Blast as being a silly tool that's going to lead to some sexy setups to complement the even sexier combos.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
The only hope I have for gas blast changes is to slightly increase the size of un-amp'd blast so it's easier to use effectively outside the corner.

Overall, I am 100% going to drop Clean Cut for this variation when the patch drops. Hook Grab is one of my favorite moves in this game, and I see Gas Blast as being a silly tool that's going to lead to some sexy setups to complement the even sexier combos.
Plus one of the weirdest and silliest brutality on the game. Having access to gas blast and db4 brutality is just something else lol
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Sooooo they slightly nerfed his Gas blast. It‘s not +5 anymore it‘s now +3 and amp version is now +9 instead of +15
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
His damage output is the same pre patch. So he still hits like a truck. So overall I didn't think there were any changes beside gas blast. I was worried that they would remove the healing factor.
Yup. Even Gas blast being only +3 doesn‘t change much, you can still frame trap into f4 against most of the cast after it.