General/Other - Ancestral KP2 patch for KJ - Ancestral buffs I'd like

[FinalBoss_FGC]

In the Kung Jin forums, the same question has been asked time and time again - What needs to be done to make Ancestral a tournament viable character.

Months ago, there was a thread created about this and many people put in their insight from me, to @THTB, to @YOMI FOREVER KING and the general consensus became the following:

- reduced arrow recovery by 5 frames when loaded
- Double arrow times, each arrow type lasts twice as long
- Remove autoblock when reloading
- Fire arrow now adds a blowback property on block
- Vampire arrow now takes slight meter on block
- Loads can now be meterburned

• MB Fire Arrow - 7 recovery frames
• MB Vampire Arrow - 6 recovery frames
• MB Stun Arrow - 10 recovery frames

"I feel like this will make him a dedicated zoner but with pressure options in canceling with MB Fire and Vampire arrow since he doesn't get much damage without Stun Arrow out" was how I explained it before.

I believe the variation specific buff will compensate for the lack of a viable pop up string, turn him into the Zoner he was supposed to be but not be hopeless in footsie range with quick recovery loads with meter burn.

Thoughts?

 

[Kickbykick]

I think the recovery reduction might be too much. You don't want him having plus on block reloads.
They need to fix his ex arrow whiffing.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

I think the recovery reduction might be too much. You don't want him having plus on block reloads.
They need to fix his ex arrow whiffing.

Plus on block reloads if you MB?

 

[ForeverKing]

I like these buffs

 

[Renzokuken]

If the stun arrow timers can't be removed, then I hope they can at least give him options to be able to safely combo off of an arrow load.

 

[stamatis]

This is common sense,infinite stun arrow until is used,the ex straight arrows hit mid for all variations,and ancestral will rise again.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

This is common sense,infinite stun arrow until is used,the ex straight arrows hit mid for all variations,and ancestral will rise again.

He has a low projectile why give him a mid?

 

[stamatis]

He has a low projectile why give him a mid?

because the ex arrow is a mid,but do not hit crouching opponents,i ask to fix it.
do you even play kung jin dude?

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

because the ex arrow is a mid,but do not hit crouching opponents,i ask to fix it.
do you even play kung jin dude?

Oh I didn't see the ex part lmao

 

[EOTL]

I like most of those. I think the MB arrow loads and remove autoblock needs some thought though.

Spoiler: Arrow Load Cancel Advantage

Move / hit / block

1 : -13, -17
11 : +5, -12
111 : -2, -7
B1 : -4, -16
B14 : -5, -7
D1 : -7, -24
U1 : -1, -11
2 : -9, -21
22 : -1, -15
221 : -6, -6 (wtf)
B2 : +4, -11
B21 : -3, -7
B214 : +1, -18
F2 : -6, -14
F24 : -2, -18
F243 : N/A (launches), -5
F2D1 : N/A (launches, can convert in the corner with D1), -10
3 : +5, -9
34 : +3, -9
343 : N/A (launches), -14
B3 : -5, -14
F3 : -5, -19
D3 : -1, -18
4 : -1, -4
D4 : -2, -20

Taking the above list from @Youphemism , you are saying to improve the arrow load recovery when MB by +20-24. That would mean that any string that -9 or better on hit (basically all of them) you would be able to link an instant jump divekick and many you could land a neutral jump punch which is a bit much. You'll be doing full combo damage into stun arrow vortex and probably massively outclassing Shaolin.
Unfortunately on the other hand, many of KJ's strings have reeling stagger so none of your less that +11 options (111,221,343) would reach.

I would instead suggest keeping autoblock but reducing the arrow recovery to:

Stun arrow: 23 frames Recovery
11 : +2, -5
111 : +5, 0
B14 : +2, 0
D1 : 0, -17
22 :+6, -8
221 : +1, +1
B21 : +4, 0
B214 : +8, -11
F24 : +5, -11
F243 : N/A (launches), +2
34 : +10, -2
D3 : +6, -11
D4 :+5, -13

Fire/Vamp Arrow: 10 frames Recovery
11 : +15, +8
111 : +18, +13
B14 : +15, +13
D1 : +13, -4
22 :+19, +5
221 : +14, +14
B21 : +17, +13
B214 : +21, +2
F24 : +18, +2
F243 : N/A (launches), +15
34 : +23, +11
D3 : +19,+2
D4 :+18, 0

This way fire/vamp arrows give good pressure on hit and block and often free 50/50s on hit. Stun arrows give you some advantage on hit but none on block. I think that along with a stun arrow with no timer would be balanced. If stun arrow can't be infinite then it should only expire when you're in neutral stance. If you start a string it should not expire until the end the string and have a chance to cancel. Overall the changes I would suggest would be:

Universal

• ExDF2 hitting all crouchers
• ExDB2 hitting all characters standing in the corner after B14 in both stances (so that you get a corner combo with fire arrows)

Ancestral

• reduced arrow recovery by 5 frames when loaded
• Double arrow times, each arrow type lasts twice as long
• Stun Arrow has infinite/no timer
• Remove autoblock when reloading
• Fire arrow now adds a blowback property on block
• - Vampire arrow now takes slight meter on block
• - Loads can now be meterburned
  • MB Fire Arrow - 7 recovery frames
  • MB Vampire Arrow - 6 recovery frames
  • MB Stun Arrow - 10 recovery frames
  • MB Fire/Vampire Arrow - 10 recovery frames
  • MB Stun Arrow - 23 recovery frames
• DD2- ducking frames start earlier and last longer

Bojutsu (not relevant i know)

• MB Bo Swat sped up to 9 frames for anti-air purposes
• Bo Spin Hard Knockdown

 

[Zatoichi]

I hope Ancestral gets some love in the next patch, I might actually want to play Kung Jin again. Bojutsu is braindead, and Shaolin isn't really my thing. Ancestral is my favorite out of the three but it's sadly lacking.

 

[Superi0rMagik]

But its ok for tempest to be +7 after a hat? gtfo

I think the recovery reduction might be too much. You don't want him having plus on block reloads.
They need to fix his ex arrow whiffing.

I think the recovery reduction might be too much. You don't want him having plus on block reloads.
They need to fix his ex arrow whiffing.[/QUOT

 

[Addhad]

Lol all he needs is the b12 strung shaolin has n he will be gr8