Kotal Kahn Currently has an Inescapable Command Grab Option Select

[Circus]

I considered not making a thread about this, but I'm so angsty waiting for release day and the possibility of another patch, so I'm caving.

If there is a day 1 patch, this has the possibility of getting patched out early, but who knows at this point. Unlike the dash-blocking that has recently been buzzing around twitter, this is definitely getting patched. There is no way this isn't getting patched eventually.

Kotal has an option select that is completely unescapable at the moment and very easy to initiate off his far advancing F3.
Kotal's command grab is a mid.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1120064974628556801

Alioune on Twitter:
"F3 > tick throw os : If you block the F3, the command grab is inescapable (cant jump, cant press a button) If you get hit, F3 is at +15 and comes out in 17f. So you F3 again until they block into a tick throw. Only way out is to perfect block reversal a F3."

So this means that If a Kotal player learns this option select, this is literally all they'd have to do to win.

You can't jump out at any time (block or hit).
You can't attack at any time (block or hit).
There is no guessing involved because it's an Option Select.
You'd be forced to take the throw or Flawless Block the F3 100% of the time, no question about it.

This is a video of Alioune trying to jump out of the setup on hit or on block:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1120071986951143424

Tick Grab Option Selects Explained for people who don't understand how to do this or what this is:

Spoiler

In every NRS game for years, there has been tick grab option selects, but none with a mid command grab with a tick this oppressive. There has also been many other option selects being discovered for characters like Jacqui Briggs and her cancels too, but they aren't really too crazy. NRS has patched out some option selects and left some over the years too btw.

Again, this could be very temporary if there is another patch Tuesday.

 

[Gamer68]

Is the command grab a base move or is it a loadout move?

 

[Circus]

Is the command grab a base move or is it a loadout move?

It's in this tournament variation:

1. Ascension:
   Huehhueyi (command grab) , God Ray, Kahn-Cut (special launcher)

 

[Gamer68]

It's in this tournament variation:

1. Ascension:
   Huehhueyi (command grab) , God Ray, Kahn-Cut (special launcher)

Thanks.

I'm just not familiar with the Tournament loadouts, maybe because NRS DECIDED TO NOT TALK ABOUT THEM FOR SOME REASON.

 

[Braindead]

Lmao yeah this is gonna get patched out. I might try to have some fun with it though.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

I highly highly highly think the day one patch will cover this. Jut a guess.

 

[SeymorSlash216]

Lmao yeah this is gonna get patched out. I might try to have some fun with it though.

Screen name to post is accurate lmao

 

[iAmOME]

He needs it

 

[Blizer]

Fuck

Its been found out

 

[Jynks]

He needs it

exactly. That isn't a joke in fact. Moves being super good or even "unfair" are not the issue.. it is how good all the other moves are together. Now we need to see it in the wild, but he has been built massively unsafe. I mean, he is entirely unsafe right... as in nearly every move? Having something super good might make him balance, not out of balanced.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

When the casual variations are more balanced than the tournament variations

 

[Circus]

exactly. That isn't a joke in fact. Moves being super good or even "unfair" are not the issue.. it is how good all the other moves are together. Now we need to see it in the wild, but he has been built massively unsafe. I mean, he is entirely unsafe right... as in nearly every move? Having something super good might make him balance, not out of balanced.

His F1 is a far reaching high that is -3 on block that goes into F12 that is -4 on block. If he hit confirms it he could get a huge combo if he cancels into Kahn Cut.
If they start neutral ducking the high then he has his safe F3 (-6 on block) and F34 (-3 on block). He has great anti airs and the one of the fastest dashes in the game. Just because he has a lot of his moves that are unsafe doesn't mean that he has to play unsafe. There is also a ton of pushback on his stuff.

I'm not sure if I explained this well enough, but this is option select in the OP is actually broken; not ironically broken or really good, it's just plain game breaking. Anytime he even touches the opponent on block or hit he'd be guaranteed at least 14% with no risk. It's not a guess on his part. It's comparable to a block infinite. There is no way any character in any game needs this.

 

[SquidlyB]

exactly. That isn't a joke in fact. Moves being super good or even "unfair" are not the issue.. it is how good all the other moves are together. Now we need to see it in the wild, but he has been built massively unsafe. I mean, he is entirely unsafe right... as in nearly every move? Having something super good might make him balance, not out of balanced.

Even if what you're saying is true, it won't matter because the mass amount of casuals who play online for the first few months won't learn how to perfect block in order to escape the grab. NRS will change it to avoid the headache.

 

[Jynks]

Anytime he even touches the opponent on block or hit he'd be guaranteed at least 14% with no risk. It's not a guess on his part. It's comparable to a block infinite. There is no way any character in any game needs this.

hmmm... well that does sound bad... can't really look at it until it is out : (

 

[Evil Canadian]

There is no way any character in any game needs this.

but yet

he needs it

 

[SaltShaker]

Glad this was found before the first local tourneys start up. This surely will be fixed so glad I won't have to go against it.

 

[SHAOLIN]

Make it a high and move on...

 

[Gegz]

Make it a high and move on...

Lmao

 

[Blade4693]

Based on what I have been reading here Kotal is weak in the frame data department...maybe he needs it

 

[Juggs]

People unironically saying “he needs it” clearly do not understand what is happening here. This needs to be fixed asap, if not, definitely gonna pick him just to abuse this as much as possible.

 

[Blade4693]

Speaking of Kotal is there an ex version of his command grab or a krushing blow version for a combo? Hoping for something like Gutted where I can ex it for a nice juicy combo lol

 

[Eddy Wang]

You guys really can't wait for official release huh?

 

[MrWarMachine]

Good news for Kotal mains such as myself lol

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

For this saying he needs it. That's not how balancing works. You don't give broke tools to some characters because they are lacking in other ways. We wouldn't say Cyrax sucks at this and this and this he needs that reset into unblockable.
If he is lacking in frame data, that data can be adjusted, but I'm pretty sure some if his string that are unsafe are for a reason. But only time will tell.

It's broke and it needs to be adjusted and will be.

 

[Eji1700]

exactly. That isn't a joke in fact. Moves being super good or even "unfair" are not the issue.. it is how good all the other moves are together. Now we need to see it in the wild, but he has been built massively unsafe. I mean, he is entirely unsafe right... as in nearly every move? Having something super good might make him balance, not out of balanced.

this better be trolling. There is a large difference between building a character around a powerful moving and justifying an entirely trash kit with one pointlessly broken move.

Even if this wasn't as broken as it is, this sort of design just promotes degenerate and pointless gameplay. I'm all about shit like ice clone or ahvb, but this isn't that.