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Kombat Tomb Podcast - Ep. 18 with IKizzLE

IKizzLE

BloodHound
I'm all for hype and various rivalries, but the challenge issued in this podcast simply doesn't make sense.

A Sektor mirror will hardly prove whether Sektor has major deficiencies as a character; it'll only prove which person is better acquainted with one specific match-up. There are too many variables that would make results entirely inconclusive. Skill difference, match-up experience, and Sektor's ability (or inability) to exploit these specific weaknesses (opposed to a different character) could all potentially invalidate a first-to-five seeking to prove Sektor's tier placement. Determining something like overall superiority, whether it be personal character mastery or character tier placement, requires a lengthy history of results and a certain degree of consistency.

Having STH and IKizzle play is great, and I'm sure it'd be a fantastic match, but claiming it would prove anything about a character's status on the tier list or a person's knowledge of the character as a whole (when the focus should be on performance in all match-ups) is somewhat outlandish.

I also disagree with some of the reasoning used in the podcast. Statements about IKizzle beating people who used "better" characters were used to reinforce the statement that Sektor is roughly seventh overall. Once again, there are simply too many variables for a statement like this to hold weight. This would only be applicable with consistency over a long span of time, not after a guy meets and plays people for the first time(?) throughout a single weekend. MLG may very well lend credence to the exposure of Sektor or STH, but it'll be in the tournament, not in a first-to-five mirror-match.

That said, I'd much rather see STH and 16-Bit play. There's a genuine backstory and something can most assuredly be proven. Maybe this will be possible one day.

On a side note, it feels as though an extreme degree of trash talk is becoming a fad. I noticed that, shortly following the VSM vs Mid-West 5 v5, people started talking much bigger. One can safely assume that this is because such behavior led to a hugely successful event. Hopefully this doesn't doesn't get out of hand and breed too much hostility because the thing I've always appreciated about this community was the, well...


Thank You. Their logic for Sektor's placement is absurd. Now a days, if someone does well at a tourney, it automatically defaults to the character and not the player. Can the players get any props instead?

Yes, Sektor has great tools and great footsies.....and so does 15 other characters in the cast.
 

Flagg

Noob
Hmm.

Yes, right now, the Rare Earth Hypothesis is the most sound "blue print" for how complex life could evolve on a planet, but we shouldn't think it's the only way. I believe Scientists have detected microbes on asteroids and meteorites...it's theorised that life could exist on Saturn and Jupitors moons. If you look at "extremophiles", we are talking about organisms that don't even require light....just water, and we know things like water exists on bolide objects like asteroids and moons. That said, the chances of a complex life form like a mammal evolving on a asteroid is highly unlikely.

And no, evolution does not have "one path". It has several. like I said before, if you could rewind evolution back some 500 million years, and let it play out again, you would not get the same organisms evolving into what we know today, and there's a good chance homo sapiens would not even exist.

However, what should be taken into consideration is the enormous variety of life on this planet. Mammals, reptiles, fish, insects, marsupials, amphibians, cold blooded, warm blooded, amoeba, and so on...the variations are huge and I doubt you would get anything that looked radically different elsewhere, as in they may be physically or polymorphically different, but they would belong to the same phylogenies.

Asides from humans, Crows, Dolphins and Apes are considered the smartest animals on the planet. Perhaps somewhere, birds or marine life evolved to a level comparable to ours.

Now, doing away with things like "cloaking devices", right now, the speed of light cannot be broken. If this is a universal fact, then the chances are that intelligent life will not be able to visit other worlds due to the massive distances. Right now, it would take us 50,000 years just to reach Alpha Centauri, our nearest star, and we have no way of knowing if that system has life.

The best we can hope for, for now, is our telescopes. We'll probably be able to view planets in other systems, even look on their surfaces.
 

fr stack

Noob's saibot or noob saibot's?
im still of the opinion south parks theory of evolution is sound . we are an intergalactic tv show :coffee:
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Thank You. Their logic for Sektor's placement is absurd. Now a days, if someone does well at a tourney, it automatically defaults to the character and not the player. Can the players get any props instead?

Yes, Sektor has great tools and great footsies.....and so does 15 other characters in the cast.
7th is probably an exaggeration, maybe because its frustrating that no Sektor will acknowledge how good his tools are, but I think 13th is am exaggeration as well.

A tier characters are something like: Kabal, Kung Lao, Raiden, Smoke, Cyrax, Kenshi

B tier characters are something like: Sonya, Jax, Mileena, Kitana, Cage, Reptile

All we are trying to say is that Sektor belongs in the discussion of being in the B tier characters. To say that EVERYONE in the B tier listed above is better that Sektor I simply cannot buy. He's got too many tools.

You have to realize that when you bring up a character that everyone says sucks and bring him to light, the credit is yours as a player as is. Nobody said you can be a complete idiot, play with Sektor and be good. Your an engineer designing fighter jets and spaceships for God's sake lol. Of course you're a great and smart player, that goes without saying.

And keep in mind me and 16 Bit have been saying Sektor belongs in discussion with the B tier since Evo. We knew first-hand Sektor was good since playing Sektroll. Saying Sektor is good has never been a ploy to downplay your abilities as a player.
 
Characters who are better than Sektor in the tier:
Kung Lao, Reptile, Kitana, Ermac, Johnny Cage, Mileena, Cyrax, Smoke, Kenshi, Jax, Sonya, Kabal, Raiden.

A lot these characters can shut down Sektor's tools and/or have better footsies. They also all have better matchup charts then Sektor. No way is Sektor above 9, he is somewhere between 10 and 13.

S Tier: Smoke, Kabal, Raiden
A Tier: Cyrax, Jax, Kenshi, Kung Lao, Sonya, Mileena, Cage
B Tier: Reptile, Kitana, Sektor, Ermac, a few others
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Thank You. Their logic for Sektor's placement is absurd. Now a days, if someone does well at a tourney, it automatically defaults to the character and not the player. Can the players get any props instead?

Yes, Sektor has great tools and great footsies.....and so does 15 other characters in the cast.
Yeah IMO mirror matches do nothing to show who is better with a character. A mirror match just decides who can play the mirror better.
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Characters who are better than Sektor in the tier:
Kung Lao, Reptile, Kitana, Ermac, Johnny Cage, Mileena, Cyrax, Smoke, Kenshi, Jax, Sonya, Kabal, Raiden.

A lot these characters can shut down Sektor's tools and/or have better footsies. They also all have better matchup charts then Sektor. No way is Sektor above 9, he is somewhere between 10 and 13.

S Tier: Smoke, Kabal, Raiden
A Tier: Cyrax, Jax, Kenshi, Kung Lao, Sonya, Mileena, Cage
B Tier: Reptile, Kitana, Sektor, Ermac, a few others
There are no official matchup charts dude they are as unofficial as our very own opinions. IKizzle beat a lot of the characters you listed quite handily with Sektor at FR. IKizzle is a great player, but that also means Sektor has the tools to deal with them.

All we're asking is that Sektor is debatably a top 10 character. If you think he's 9th, then thats fine. But for a Sektor player to go toe to toe with the best Jax in the country, the best Kitana in the country and beat down some of the best Cage and Sonya players in the country its time to stop bullshitting about how bad characters like these 'shut down Sektor's tools and/or have better footsies.'
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
Also, with the whole Sektor mirror, I couldn't agree more with @Phase3. The only thing it will settle is who knows the mirror match better. I actually despise the mirror match since Sektor has the qualifications to exploit... Sektor. Performance in the MLG tournament, while still not 100% conclusive is a better showing of Sektor as a character and ikizzile/myself as players. I'm obviously still up for it since it sounds interesting and enjoyable - that said I'm not really doing it to attempt to prove a point.

Concerning how good or bad Sektor is as a character; I stand firm that he has some major holes in his fundamentals that hold him back from being amazing. That said, he's tournament viable for sure; I believe plenty of the Sektor players out there have confirmed that one over the last few months. He has some great and unique tools that make fighting him unlike any other character in the game. I'll even go and say he most likely has what it takes to win a major. Hell, I think he only really has at most, 4 bad match ups - you can get away with not having a pocket character for the most part, except for one match up imo. What has concerned me, and still does, lies not within match ups, but universal issues based around Sektor alone. It also seems completely useless to argue my reasons as to why I think Sektor isn't top 15, seeing as instead of starting an intellectual discussion, it just makes people fling shit everywhere - including myself.

Another topic of calling people out and what not has become too popular in my opinion. I have done my share on fueling this fire, so I'm as much to blame as anyone else. Sometimes Mortal Kombat becomes more about the people playing the game than the game itself. While not a bad thing, too much of this can serious discredit the game in the long run. I hope MLG is all about MK as a competitive game and how enjoyable our scene is to spectate, not personal vendettas.

In closing, I think that any of these ft5 matches and what not should be done in hotel rooms, not on streams at MLG to remain as professional as possible. They can easily be recorded so TYM can watch, but lets do what we can to keep MK looking as clean as possible. Lastly, I sure hope that this challenge doesn't make it look like I have any bad blood with ikizzile. There's not a Sektor player in the world that I have dislike for. I think if you listen to any interview of me I always mention how fond I am of the Sektor community and it's players. I've taken notes from a variety of great Sektor players, including Ketchup (corner traps), ikizzile (ending with up close flame, going into d3 for easy pressure tricks), Nickolass (best spacing/footsie game out of any Sektor imo), and a ton more like Crathen, RedRaptor, NKZero, Maxter, ect.

PS: My tournament schedule is looking like MLG, FV, ECT, EVO at the moment. There's one in Canada that I want to make it to as well if at all possible. So it looks like my ft5 with 16bit won't be for quite some time.
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
7th is probably an exaggeration, maybe because its frustrating that no Sektor will acknowledge how good his tools are, but I think 13th is am exaggeration as well.

A tier characters are something like: Kabal, Kung Lao, Raiden, Smoke, Cyrax, Kenshi

B tier characters are something like: Sonya, Jax, Mileena, Kitana, Cage, Reptile
Just to show the small scale of difference all this drama has cost between myself and a few others... if I had to put Sektor somewhere on the tier list he would go right below every character mentioned in your B tier. For me, Sektor is located around Scorpion and Freddy, either in the lower end of your B tier or C tier depending on how you want to classify it. And out of all these characters listed, I think his bad match ups are with 2 A tier characters, 1 B tier character, and Freddy whom is not listed.

The only other difference is I think Sonya is the best character in the game. Hopefully this statement doesn't start a whole bunch of shit as well.
 

Deftonesrc

Electrical Engineering bitch!
I strongly disagree with this equation talk. You`re only defining human civilization as "life" so you get a small number of 250,000 years, when the reality is that life has existed on this planet for at least 3.5billion. Given the sheer size of the universe, 100 billion galaxies all containing their stars and planets, you can`t say that probability is " basically zero". We`ve had life on this one planet for a fourth of the entire universe`s lifespan so far.

By the way, its also absurd that ANY human has ever seen an alien because alien travel to this planet would require technology so advanced that they would have already developed perfect cloaking technology, and they would be absolutely invisible to our eyes.
Well mayo, you are getting into a section of science that I was trying to avoid; defining what is "life". But I believe the parameters were intelligent life (thought based on the republican primary, this is debatable), so the math would still hold there. Without getting into any vector calculus, we can assume that there are only 4 dimensions (not true, but for the purpose here), in which case, the "space" part of "space time" is the only thing being questioned here. I can indeed say that the probability is zero as it is 5 sig figs below zero (x10^-5). The amount of galaxies is only relevant in terms of space, and does not factor time into it. Sure, there may be life out there somewhere now, but by the time the light of their civilization reaches our planet, they are likely long gone. Since time is nether a constant, nor linear, it can be safely argued that life is not present no, outside of what we see. Maybe there is, but due to the limitations of light itself, we will likely never know this save for the advent of some space warping technology. But this is now entering the realm of fantasy and departs from science altogether. This planets entire existence is only about 4.6 billion years, with life being on this planet about 2 billion. I checked the math, its not 25%. Its actually about 14%, and this would get you an F in an english exam if I'm not mistaken =)

I agree with the notion that any contact is crazy talk. I think Hawking had concluded that, in the event that a civilization were to exceed a class 2 standing, they would likely be here to farm resource, which would likely mark the end of civilization and/or the planet before red giant sun overtakes us.

Mayo, its been great watching your Kenshi stuff! I'm a big fan of Kenshi, so its cool to see you do tutorials. I also liked how you did the mathematical deductions of quan chi. Good stuff indeed
 
There are no official matchup charts dude they are as unofficial as our very own opinions. IKizzle beat a lot of the characters you listed quite handily with Sektor at FR. IKizzle is a great player, but that also means Sektor has the tools to deal with them.

All we're asking is that Sektor is debatably a top 10 character. If you think he's 9th, then thats fine. But for a Sektor player to go toe to toe with the best Jax in the country, the best Kitana in the country and beat down some of the best Cage and Sonya players in the country its time to stop bullshitting about how bad characters like these 'shut down Sektor's tools and/or have better footsies.'
I don't think he's 9 personally. IMO, Sektor being above 9 is trolling, 9 is wrong, 10 is reasonable, 11 is good, and to me, he is 12. Which is still a very good spot, and much above average. You'd be lying if you can tell me that even 4 of those 13 characters in my previous post are below Sektor. What's hard about this game's character rankings is that a numbered list is kind of silly, because there are about 5 tier groups, with everyone in each group sort of equal. IMO, there's 3 in S, and between 7 and 9 in each of the other 3, and 2 in the bottom tier. Of course there's no official matchup charts, but I looked at the general consensus over all the character boards by the top players, and got an average idea of what everyone agrees upon. That's better than 1 person's opinion.

No, the reason IKizzle beats these good players is because he is that good. There are also other reasons, such as these players don't have good Sektor experience and don't know what they can blow up or not. Also some of those were not 'quite handily' as you say, some went to the last round or last inch of health.

Basing a character's tier place on how good one guy plays at one tournament, is ridiculous. No matter if he theoretically beat every VSM guy and PL that day, does that mean now Sektor is above Smoke, Jax, etc.? Everyone has their bad days, and everyone loses some times, regardless of how great their character is. If it's a tight match, and Ikizzle's opponent makes one mistake, and Ikizzle capitalizes on it, and wins, and now his character is top 10? Get out of here. It just means that Ikizzle is definitely very good, and can clutch a win. It doesn't mean that Sektor just moved up 3 places on the tier list.

When a Scorpion and Kitana player think they know more about Sektor than the top Sektor players, I'd say give it a rest. Theoretically, Sektor should be top 5. But in practice and extended match experience, which you guys don't have with Sektor, it becomes obvious he has holes and limitations that bring him down to at most 10, especially considering all of the better characters.
 

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
Well mayo, you are getting into a section of science that I was trying to avoid; defining what is "life". But I believe the parameters were intelligent life (thought based on the republican primary, this is debatable), so the math would still hold there. Without getting into any vector calculus, we can assume that there are only 4 dimensions (not true, but for the purpose here), in which case, the "space" part of "space time" is the only thing being questioned here. I can indeed say that the probability is zero as it is 5 sig figs below zero (x10^-5). The amount of galaxies is only relevant in terms of space, and does not factor time into it. Sure, there may be life out there somewhere now, but by the time the light of their civilization reaches our planet, they are likely long gone. Since time is nether a constant, nor linear, it can be safely argued that life is not present no, outside of what we see. Maybe there is, but due to the limitations of light itself, we will likely never know this save for the advent of some space warping technology. But this is now entering the realm of fantasy and departs from science altogether. This planets entire existence is only about 4.6 billion years, with life being on this planet about 2 billion. I checked the math, its not 25%. Its actually about 14%, and this would get you an F in an english exam if I'm not mistaken =)

I agree with the notion that any contact is crazy talk. I think Hawking had concluded that, in the event that a civilization were to exceed a class 2 standing, they would likely be here to farm resource, which would likely mark the end of civilization and/or the planet before red giant sun overtakes us.

Mayo, its been great watching your Kenshi stuff! I'm a big fan of Kenshi, so its cool to see you do tutorials. I also liked how you did the mathematical deductions of quan chi. Good stuff indeed
I think any alien life that was intelligent would have gone through primitive beginnings, and therefore would have developed supernatural beliefs. Then you get religion. And our world likely won`t survive our religious differences combined with destructive technology. It`s hard to imagine any alien civilization getting to the point of intergalatic travel before first destroying themselves over their own geographically-unique religious delusions, land/wealth/resource disputes, and globally destructive weapons.

If a civilization can travel across galaxies, damn straight their technology is dangerous enough to where just ONE nutcase (and there would be a fair share of nutcases because they would imperfect evolved brains) could blow up their entire world. I`d bet on destruction first.

And thanks for the words on the videos. I have THREE Kenshi videos coming out this month. Hope you enjoy.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Sonya...best char in the game...

You know what, fuck it, it's not even worth posting a picture of a facepalm, that shit is just straight retarded.
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
No, the reason IKizzle beats these good players is because he is that good. There are also other reasons, such as these players don't have good Sektor experience and don't know what they can blow up or not. Also some of those were not 'quite handily' as you say, some went to the last round or last inch of health.

Basing a character's tier place on how good one guy plays at one tournament, is ridiculous. No matter if he theoretically beat every VSM guy and PL that day, does that mean now Sektor is above Smoke, Jax, etc.? Everyone has their bad days, and everyone loses some times, regardless of how great their character is. If it's a tight match, and Ikizzle's opponent makes one mistake, and Ikizzle capitalizes on it, and wins, and now his character is top 10? Get out of here. It just means that Ikizzle is definitely very good, and can clutch a win. It doesn't mean that Sektor just moved up 3 places on the tier list.

When a Scorpion and Kitana player think they know more about Sektor than the top Sektor players, I'd say give it a rest. Theoretically, Sektor should be top 5. But in practice and extended match experience, which you guys don't have with Sektor, it becomes obvious he has holes and limitations that bring him down to at most 10, especially considering all of the better characters.
I've already acknowledged IKizzle is a good player so there's no need to make that point. But VSM doesn't have good Sektor experience? As far as I know this is the same VSM SwiftTomHanks rants about how they expose Sektor's weaknesses and he's not that good. They clearly have an idea of what to do.

Beating a top Johnny Cage 8-1 is pretty handily. He beat a good Reptile and a top Sonya in tourney and was able to beat cdjr's Jax in a ft3 set. All these characters you listed as characters that 'shut down Sektor's tools and/or have better footsies'. If its THAT bad he wouldn't have had that much success.

We didn't move Sektor up 3 spots on the tier list because of IKizzle. We don't think he's top 10 all of a sudden because a Sektor player went toe-to-toe with the best players in the country. Maybe you haven't been reading my posts or listening to the podcast, but we've been telling people Sektor is top 10 character for MONTHS.

lol we don't have Sektor experience. IKizzle is my main sparring partner and 16 Bit plays him all the time. He was our roomate at FR. I think the people who play the best Sektor in the country on a regular basis have a little more say as to where he stands than you. The only person who needs to give it a rest here is yourself.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
You know what is worth posting a picture of a facepalm.

You dodging Pig Of The Hut 's money match
Hmm, probably, although all this talk of a mirror match not really deciding who is the better player would have applied to our match, so it'll have to wait until I learn Scorpion or Raiden better. Then it will be legit.

Also did you not challenge Shujinkydink to a money match and then back off? I'm a nice little Kettle, no need to call me black :D
 

Tolkeen

/wrists
Hmm, probably, although all this talk of a mirror match not really deciding who is the better player would have applied to our match, so it'll have to wait until I learn Scorpion or Raiden better. Then it will be legit.

Also did you not challenge Shujinkydink to a money match and then back off? I'm a nice little Kettle, no need to call me black :D
Pig said part of your back out agreement was a written apology on tym? Am I mistaken in hearing that, or did I miss the post?

I'm not trying to ridicule anyone, I was just hyped for the match and am double hyped for the written apology.
 
I've already acknowledged IKizzle is a good player so there's no need to make that point. But VSM doesn't have good Sektor experience? As far as I know this is the same VSM SwiftTomHanks rants about how they expose Sektor's weaknesses and he's not that good. They clearly have an idea of what to do.

Beating a top Johnny Cage 8-1 is pretty handily. He beat a good Reptile and a top Sonya in tourney and was able to beat cdjr's Jax in a ft3 set. All these characters you listed as characters that 'shut down Sektor's tools and/or have better footsies'. If its THAT bad he wouldn't have had that much success.

We didn't move Sektor up 3 spots on the tier list because of IKizzle. We don't think he's top 10 all of a sudden because a Sektor player went toe-to-toe with the best players in the country. Maybe you haven't been reading my posts or listening to the podcast, but we've been telling people Sektor is top 10 character for MONTHS.

lol we don't have Sektor experience. IKizzle is my main sparring partner and 16 Bit plays him all the time. He was our roomate at FR. I think the people who play the best Sektor in the country on a regular basis have a little more say as to where he stands than you. The only person who needs to give it a rest here is yourself.
So you play IKizzle, and he ALSO tells you he is not top 10, yet you don't think he is right.

And Big D got top 8 with Nightwolf, of all characters, so does that make Nightwolf top 10?? If Brady gets top 8 with Sub-Zero, does that make Sub-Zero top 10?? You're talking some faulty logic.
 

Death

Noob
lol @ sektor top 10. Sektor is good but I agree with Kizzle and probably put him just outside top 10. STH i love ya man but no way sonya is number 1. Id put her around 4-5 but still top 5. But I also think Freddy is just outside top 5 so what do i know.