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Kombat Tomb Podcast - Ep. 17 with Lord of the Fly

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Premium Supporter
I don't think we are 'special' or there was a higher power that created us for any special reason. I just life IS the result of evolution. I know I used the terminology that matter's energy 'created' us, but I'm just trying to say energy's evolution to preserve it's existence is making life.
I would venture to say that really we're just a side effect of a bunch of chemical reactions. That's all we are. There is no conscious, collective effort. The problem lies in the fact that we don't know the WHAT or WHY of the beginnings of the universe, but we DO know the HOW. Any discussion of what or why is pure speculation right now. We don't have any evidence or answers so no matter how much anyone sits here and argues about the what and why, it doesn't matter because there's no evidence.

And I know energy isn't capable of 'thinking', but neither do micro-organisms or plants. A plant will bend toward sunlight to gain nutrients or warp itself around a pole so it can keep growing. It has no intelligence, but it's instincts allow it to survive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phototropism

I know the Sun isn't 'alive' but maybe matter's energy has a sense of self-preservation on a much grander scale that we don't comprehend.
Maybe, but there better be a good reason for us to make this assumption. It sounds good. But there's no reason to believe that it DOES have a sense of self-preservation. We can say maybe, but that doesn't mean we can make the rest of our argument on the assumption that it's true. We would first have to test that because the entire theory relies on that being true.

We all know we are going to die, but why do we fear death if we know our energy won't be dissolved? What is this insane urge with our instincts to live and create offspring if we know life is pointless anyway? There must be a greater purpose, otherwise our number 1 priority wouldn't be self-preservation.
That insane urge is called our instinct. We developed that instinct over millions and millions of years of evolution, where the one thing that is key to our survival is reproduction. Our number one priority is self-preservation because entire race would die out if it weren't. That's basic evolution for you. We have traits and characteristics of individuals subjected into an environment where self-preservation is THE key trait.

BTW I keep saying 'matter's energy' because I want to hold true that energy never ceases to exit, just transferred. When the universe collapses on itself everything will probably just turn into dark matter.
Matter is just one of the variables of our universe. Just like time and gravity. If you change one variable it effects all of the others. When the universe dies out, matter won't exist. It's hard to wrap your mind around. At least it is for me, but that's how it's going to work.
 

NariTuba

disMember
The most beautiful and most profound experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive forms - this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.

Albert Einstein - The Merging of Spirit and Science
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
He did fine before it, and honestly that armored soul steal isn't anything to fear, just another free panic button
If it isn't anything to fear then there is no reason for him to not have it. Btw, he always had armor on it, but it was not as useful before because the move was slower and it was easy to hit him out of it. Anyways Shang is one of the most nerfed characters in the game- he has gotten worse with every update.
 

Mt. Mutombo

Asshole by nature
No im correct. For instance, I could find a river, build a brick wall dividing the one species of fish in the river, thus creating two groups of the same species. Over several generations, those two groups will evolve to the point if I removed the barrier, they could not breed with each other.

Mutation is another factor. Mutations is natures wild card. They either work or they don't, and they massively rely on what is happening to the species in it's environment at the time.

You might think there is some set plan, that everything was meant to happen, I dont. I've been studying subjects like evolution for the last 4 years, so im fairly well informed.

Not putting you on blast, but i do know what im talking about in this case.

You're right that "shit happens because something caused it to happen", and you're right, but things like forest fires can wipe out an entire species forever. Anything can happen, and like I said, if you rewound time, and let the earth play from the start again, evolution would unravel in a completely different fashion, due to the massive amount of variables that ultimately govern evolution.

This about sums my Evolution class lol. And i believe that the exact same example you utilized was used in one of my classes lol.
 

CJKRattlehead

Two men enter, one man leaves!
If it isn't anything to fear then there is no reason for him to not have it. Btw, he always had armor on it, but it was not as useful before because the move was slower and it was easy to hit him out of it. Anyways Shang is one of the most nerfed characters in the game- he has gotten worse with every update.
Alright, didn't know that. I'm just against armor being thrown around in general though.
 

Flagg

Noob
This about sums my Evolution class lol. And i believe that the exact same example you utilized was used in one of my classes lol.
Allopatric speciation, I think is the example I used. There's other types like Sympatric, Parapatric, etc...if memory serves me correctly. They're examples of how one species can become two.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Interesting fact, if you could rewind time like a tape, and start again from 500 million years ago, life would evolve completely differently to how it is now, and several species, including humans, would likely not exist.
Only if something changes. If we rewind time and just watch, everything will happen exactly the same way unless something is changed or our presence affects something.
 

Flagg

Noob
Only if something changes. If we rewind time and just watch, everything will happen exactly the same way unless something is changed or our presence affects something.
But that's just it, its not species affecting other species, its other things like climate and external factors.

Look at my pond example again. Say we did an experiment where we had two ponds with the same fish in each pond, and we put the barrier in both ponds. Both ponds are likely to see speciation, but one pond will reach a state of change faster than the other. If pond one reached a state of speciation within 20 generations, that does not mean that pond two will reach a state of speciation within 20 generations. That's exactly how evolution would pan out. Certain things would happen slower, or faster, due to other factors, beyond things like mutations.
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Premium Supporter
That insane urge is called our instinct. We developed that instinct over millions and millions of years of evolution, where the one thing that is key to our survival is reproduction. Our number one priority is self-preservation because entire race would die out if it weren't. That's basic evolution for you. We have traits and characteristics of individuals subjected into an environment where self-preservation is THE key trait.
The question as to why we have instincts was my main point. Why do we have the instinct to survive if we are all one energy anyway? We are going to die and our energy will be transferred into something else. So why do we fear death? Whats the big deal? Why were the rules of how life is created set if there wasn't purpose? Why couldn't Earth just remain a lifeless planet if life's energy is just as meaningless and inanimate as the Sun's?

Life can manipulate energy. Or as someone put more eloquently, consciousness can manipulate energy. But energy made consciousness. So is it not safe to say that consciousness is the evolution of energy? Is it not safe to say that consciousness was created by energy for some sort of purpose?

And ultimately, is that purpose to preserve energy's survival? Did the Sun's energy make consciousness in hopes we are able to break away from this galaxy and live on forever as we make children in hopes they achieve something great for mankind so our names will live on forever? Thats what I've been trying to say, but not doing a good job obviously. :p I'll put it like this. The purpose of energy is to have a continuous existence threw consciousness.

Ultimately, I'm talking over my own head. But appreciate the discussion. Its intriguing.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
But that's just it, its not species affecting other species, its other things like climate and external factors.

Look at my pond example again. Say we did an experiment where we had two ponds with the same fish in each pond, and we put the barrier in both ponds. Both ponds are likely to see speciation, but one pond will reach a state of change faster than the other. If pond one reached a state of speciation within 20 generations, that does not mean that pond two will reach a state of speciation within 20 generations. That's exactly how evolution would pan out. Certain things would happen slower, or faster, due to other factors, beyond things like mutations.
Yeah but whatever happened happened in regards to the past. Nothing will happen differently if we go back 500 million years unless something is altered with. I get what you're saying though.
 

Flagg

Noob
Slips, you're confusing energy with organisms. One is unconscious phenomena, the other is not.

Life dies, but energy does not. We die, but then our energy is absorbed by other things like micro-organisms that break down our bodies as we rot. Then something will eat those things, and so on. Energy is in a perpetual state of recycling. Interesting fact, when a lion eats a zebra, it's consuming only 10% of the energy that the zebra had. When the zebra grazes on grass, the zebra is only consuming 10% of the energy stored in the grass. That's all to do with trophic levels, and why there is more grass/plants than herbivores, and more herbivores than carnivores.

Have to admit, your thoughts on energy has made for a hella interesting discussion the last 2 or 3 pages.
 

Flagg

Noob
Yeah but whatever happened happened in regards to the past. Nothing will happen differently if we go back 500 million years unless something is altered with. I get what you're saying though.
Yeah agreed. We're here now, and that's what matters. I mean if you think about it, humans are able to rationalise this stuff, we've been off our planet, we know what atoms are. All other animals just worry about where their next meal is coming and avoiding death by any means possible.
 

NariTuba

disMember
Life can manipulate energy. Or as someone put more eloquently, consciousness can manipulate energy. But energy made consciousness. So is it not safe to say that consciousness is the evolution of energy? Is it not safe to say that consciousness was created by energy for some sort of purpose?

And ultimately, is that purpose to preserve energy's survival? Did the Sun's energy make consciousness in hopes we are able to break away from this galaxy and live on forever as we make children in hopes they achieve something great for mankind so our names will live on forever? Thats what I've been trying to say, but not doing a good job obviously. :p I'll put it like this. The purpose of energy is to have a continuous existence threw consciousness.
Life doesnt give enegry continuous existence, energy does not dissapear. It was here MUCH longer than life was.

I will agree that energy is a building block of consciousness tho. Life (or God) does seem to want to perpetuate itself by becoming more sofisticated in the creation of ever more autonomous subgroups (living beings) that are able to affect the enviroment to suit this very purpose.

It does seem consciousness is a way of perpetuation, but of life.
 

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
Premium Supporter
Lol I love how so many MK players love to talk religion almost more than MK.

Yo I'm coming for everyone at FR! Swift Tom hanks included. 100$ is too much man but I'll gladly do 20 if I can make it. And if it doesn't happen then it can happen next chance we get.

Btw I'm still in Spain and sooooooo tired. On 2 hours of sleep and got to get up in 3 for a presentation...I'm totally messed up right now.
 

Killphil

A prop on the stage of life.
If it isn't anything to fear then there is no reason for him to not have it. Btw, he always had armor on it, but it was not as useful before because the move was slower and it was easy to hit him out of it. Anyways Shang is one of the most nerfed characters in the game- he has gotten worse with every update.
So has Ermac.