Match-Up Discussion - Kitana Kitana MU Chart Created by xKhaoTikx & SonicFox

[KH StarCharger]

With all due respect, but that would be dumbest thing you can do. After the 3rd grenade, Sonya ends the combo with F4 that only adds a few % to her damage. So why would you waste two bars of meter for breaker after all the damage has been done? And is it possible to backdash after you wasted your stamina?

It's actually not. You break when she has used all 3 nades and she has to take some risks to reload. I'd rather go against Sonya when she has full meter than with all 3 bombs any day.

 

[errormacro7]

It's actually not. You break when she has used all 3 nades and she has to take some risks to reload. I'd rather go against Sonya when she has full meter than with all 3 bombs any day.

Now I'm confused. What scenario are you talking about? You're talking about midscreen combos when Sonya has three grenades, correct? Or when she uses some grenades in the neutral game? Her combos end with a F4 after the 3rd grenade for a safe reload. So, for example, she has a BnB off B332 that does 34% damage. If you break the 3rd grenade, it does 29%. And she can get this same damage without using all 3 grenades. I've had someone do that against me, it might be tough to reload, but it's useless when 99% of the damage has already been done.

 

[BigMilk]

@xKhaoTik mind elaborating on the Kitana - Raiden MU? Why do you think she beats him?

 

[SM StarGazer]

Now I'm confused. What scenario are you talking about? You're talking about midscreen combos when Sonya has three grenades, correct? Or when she uses some grenades in the neutral game? Her combos end with a F4 after the 3rd grenade for a safe reload. So, for example, she has a BnB off B332 that does 34% damage. If you break the 3rd grenade, it does 29%. And she can get this same damage without using all 3 grenades. I've had someone do that against me, it might be tough to reload, but it's useless when 99% of the damage has already been done.

FYI: A true Master(ya boi) would beat that ass with that last bullshit 1%.

So I ask? Tha fuck you gonna do to Kitaba if she breaks, you have no nades and three bars? You cant zone, cant rush, take a risk to reload and get hit with a ungodly amount of Assassin unbreakable dmg, rush like a fool and eat a lift, parry, fan, air fan, assassin strike, AA f4-fan(which leads into unbreakable dmg, try it it's really dumb.),d2, or worse case AA u2?

And I will no discuss how ass it is to fight Mournful as Sonya with no stamnia. THREE guaranteed glaives AFTER the break into shadow kick, d1-SK, d1-ExG, lift that stupid divekick once your in range and laugh at the tears.

Obama Out....

 

[errormacro7]

FYI: A true Master(ya boi) would beat that ass with that last bullshit 1%.

So I ask? Tha fuck you gonna do to Kitaba if she breaks, you have no nades and three bars? You cant zone, cant rush, take a risk to reload and get hit with a ungodly amount of Assassin unbreakable dmg, rush like a fool and eat a lift, parry, fan, air fan, assassin strike, AA f4-fan(which leads into unbreakable dmg, try it it's really dumb.),d2, or worse case AA u2?

And I will no discuss how ass it is to fight Mournful as Sonya with no stamnia. THREE guaranteed glaives AFTER the break into shadow kick, d1-SK, d1-ExG, lift that stupid divekick once your in range and laugh at the tears.

Obama Out....

LOL

I know the answer to your every problem: Throw more glaives.

 

[SM StarGazer]

LOL

I know the answer to your every problem: Throw more glaives.

Makes sense though right? Kills momentum, free chip and meterx3. Luck up on a goolish jumpin attempt. Kombo.

I'm tired of tryna hip people to the Mournful game. If you counterpick with Mournful then you just pulled a hoe move. Play Slasher, Acidic, Pumped Up, Erron Block, Bone Shaper, Tarkaten, Brawler, LeatherFace(none PL), Blunder God, Bastard of Storms, and any character with ass to ok zoning with no teleport or air transversal technique. Counterpick with Mournful and throw glaives like your running out. Boom.

 

[xSamuel]

Assassin does just fine against any variation, especially Ninjustu. D4 is just a nuisance, nothing more.

Her punishing f2 is a huge plus. Parry in the neutral is a godsend, which means less f2 and b2. Mixing up parry with fans makes it hard for him to tele. B2 gets punished hard. She wins the air battle because her j2 is faster than any of his jump attacks, plus air fans and ex rising blades.

Idk why s3 punishing fans was even brought up. You shouldn't be ending strings with fan anyway.

Inferno definitely doesn't beat her, especially assassin. Hellfire is even.

A Kitana that doesn't end strings in fans Good on you. Appreciate the input from you and Sonicfox, as well as the organizaiton

 

[KH StarCharger]

Now I'm confused. What scenario are you talking about? You're talking about midscreen combos when Sonya has three grenades, correct? Or when she uses some grenades in the neutral game? Her combos end with a F4 after the 3rd grenade for a safe reload. So, for example, she has a BnB off B332 that does 34% damage. If you break the 3rd grenade, it does 29%. And she can get this same damage without using all 3 grenades. I've had someone do that against me, it might be tough to reload, but it's useless when 99% of the damage has already been done.

I'm talking about in general (Neutral, combos, whatever).hen she has only 1 grenade or none, she's got to take some risks in the kit matchup to reload. if she has a combo broken when she's used all of her grenades or has just one left, she's in trouble. Meter can bail her out, but that's only if she gets a hit. A sonya with no meter and no bombs in demo, will RIP.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

It's not something Kitana can do all the time but if she can still maintain a life lead after that combo then why not? Meter lead is always abundant for Kitana in this matchup anyway.

A Kitana that doesn't end strings in fans Good on you. Appreciate the input from you and Sonicfox, as well as the organizaiton

Some characters have easier moves to punish fan at point blank so you should hit confirm. Check the frame data to know your opponents' fastest punisher. Or you can do 212 fan all day, the push back will make fan safe.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

I am always open to new knowledge and tech.

I am sorry that I can't record a video now, I can only describe to you.

Kitana (any variation) vs Flame Fist matchup: FBF4 cancelled into all special moves (including ex versions of them) has a gap. What makes it very bad for Flame Fist is that Kitana's ex rising blade can punish EVERYTHING, including parry (she's air borne so parry doesn't work) and ex flying kick. It's also fast enough to punish raw FBF4 on block (it's -16). Flame Fist actually has 1 option to avoid eating a full combo from ex rising blade: cancel FBF4 into ex DB2 (dragon roar). Ex rising blade will whiff, Kitana armor eats full damage from dragon roar, Liu wins the damage trade. But if Kitana reads a FBF4 ~ ex DB2, she can jump back to full combo punish Liu with her jump 2 (leads to 36% meterless midscreen). Her tiny hurtbox and weird jump arc make it very easy for her to jump out. This is the worst situation for Liu because he just spent 1 bar to get punished. So the risk reward after normal FBF4 is heavily in her favor. She makes a right read, she gets a full combo, Liu makes a right read (which is very hard for him because Kitana has 1 option to fuck everything Liu does) he gets some damage.
So in this matchup Liu shouldn't use FBF4 at all, without it he can't compete footsie and chip damage with Kitana, even when he successfully activates flame fist he can't make good use of that. He can use ex FBF4 but it's a waste of meter and still risky for him

@Rozalin1780 can you please help me make a video about Kitana vs Flame Fist FBF4. First record AI doing FBF4 into ex flying kick, then you use Kitana reversal ex rising blade at the gap, to show how ex rising blade can break ex flying kick armor then convert into a combo. Secondly record AI doing FBF4 into ex DB2 (dragon roar) hold block button, then you use Kitana jump back 2 at the gap to whiff punish it. 3rd record AI Liu hit a d4 then walk back a huge distance, then use wave forward dashing tech for Kitana to show how crazy her walk speed is

 

[Rozalin1780]

I am sorry that I can't record a video now, I can only describe to you.

Kitana (any variation) vs Flame Fist matchup: FBF4 cancelled into all special moves (including ex versions of them) has a gap. What makes it very bad for Flame Fist is that Kitana's ex rising blade can punish EVERYTHING, including parry (she's air borne so parry doesn't work) and ex flying kick. It's also fast enough to punish raw FBF4 on block (it's -16). Flame Fist actually has 1 option to avoid eating a full combo from ex rising blade: cancel FBF4 into ex DB2 (dragon roar). Ex rising blade will whiff, Kitana armor eats full damage from dragon roar, Liu wins the damage trade. But if Kitana reads a FBF4 ~ ex DB2, she can jump back to full combo punish Liu with her jump 2 (leads to 36% meterless midscreen). Her tiny hurtbox and weird jump arc make it very easy for her to jump out. This is the worst situation for Liu because he just spent 1 bar to get punished. So the risk reward after normal FBF4 is heavily in her favor. She makes a right read, she gets a full combo, Liu makes a right read (which is very hard for him because Kitana has 1 option to fuck everything Liu does) he gets some damage.
So in this matchup Liu shouldn't use FBF4 at all, without it he can't compete footsie and chip damage with Kitana, even when he successfully activates flame fist he can't make good use of that. He can use ex FBF4 but it's a waste of meter and still risky for him

@Rozalin1780 can you please help me make a video about Kitana vs Flame Fist FBF4. First record AI doing FBF4 into ex flying kick, then you use Kitana reversal ex rising blade at the gap, to show how ex rising blade can break ex flying kick armor then convert into a combo. Secondly record AI doing FBF4 into ex DB2 (dragon roar) hold block button, then you use Kitana jump back 2 at the gap to whiff punish it. 3rd record AI Liu hit a d4 then walk back a huge distance, then use wave forward dashing tech for Kitana to show how crazy her walk speed is

Here you go. I found that sometimes you end up behind Liu Kang on the way up. This is easily correctly by floating with reversed inputs (DF2 opposed to DB2) and then you get a free njp. You're on your own when it comes to wave dashing because I'm absolutely terrible at it.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Here you go. I found that sometimes you end up behind Liu Kang on the way up. This is easily correctly by floating with reversed inputs (DF2 opposed to DB2) and then you get a free njp. You're on your own when it comes to wave dashing because I'm absolutely terrible at it.

Thank you very much. About the reversed input, if Kitana stands block FBF4 then she ends up behind Liu as her ex rising blade wins ex flying kick. If she ducks she remains the same side. You should definitely try wave dashing tech, it's not that hard and it makes Kitana moves like crazy

 

[Airvidal]

Kitana's Korean Backdash doesn't require stamina and is faster than her normal backdash. It's also the fastest backdash in the game

I believe Mournful beats BoneShaper Shinnok 6-4 or goes even at worse. What do you think about the RS and Assassin MU against BS Shinnok?

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

I believe Mournful beats BoneShaper Shinnok 6-4 or goes even at worse. What do you think about the RS and Assassin MU against BS Shinnok?

The neutral game is heavily in BS favor, but she significantly outdamages BS (her meterless damage is MUCH more than his 1 bar damage lol). Assasin might go even 5 - 5

 

[Airvidal]

The neutral game is heavily in BS favor, but she significantly outdamages BS (her meterless damage is MUCH more than his 1 bar damage lol). Assasin might go even 5 - 5

Yes, damage is far greater. The problem I see in this MU though is that she can't punish his Hell Sparks so the only option would be to jump over them or run through them. They are good options, but require a lot of practice aside from a really good read. I'm just curious to see how other Kitana's go about fighing this character. I feel you can't really zone him cause of his scoop.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Yes, damage is far greater. The problem I see in this MU though is that she can't punish his Hell Sparks so the only option would be to jump over them or run through them. They are good options, but require a lot of practice aside from a really good read. I'm just curious to see how other Kitana's go about fighing this character. I feel you can't really zone him cause of his scoop.

She punishes hell sparks every single time.

If the third spark misses, you can run in and punish. If you block all three, you can do TS. If you block all 3 and you feel as if he's gonna MB it, you can do ex TS. Hell sparks aren't an issue at all in the MU.

The scoop is a threat but it can easily be baited and punished. Kitana seriously out damages him so throwing out scoop is a risk and reward that favors her

 

[Airvidal]

She punishes hell sparks every single time.

If the third spark misses, you can run in and punish. If you block all three, you can do TS. If you block all 3 and you feel as if he's gonna MB it, you can do ex TS. Hell sparks aren't an issue at all in the MU.

The scoop is a threat but it can easily be baited and punished. Kitana seriously out damages him so throwing out scoop is a risk and reward that favors her

You're being too optimistic with this. We've talked before and as a Kitana player that I am, I would expect you to know, I know all of these are her options. I also know they're all situational. I was looking for something more out of the box that I may be missing.

First off, a good Shinnok will not go for the string that makes the last hell spark whiff. Second, TS won't punish at full range which again, a good Shinnok will space them correctly. So I'm back to square one.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

You're being too optimistic with this. We've talked before and as a Kitana player that I am, I would expect you to know, I know all of these are her options. I also know they're all situational. I was looking for something more out of the box that I may be missing.

First off, a good Shinnok will not go for the string that makes the last hell spark whiff. Second, TS won't punish at full range which again, a good Shinnok will space them correctly. So I'm back to square one.

Wait, beside F41D2 Shinnok has another string?

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

Vicious hard counters Assasin and Royal storm really well. Boss toss shuts down every attempt at zoning, with a 16% punish every time its not spaced right, but Mournful's air glaives are a bit harder to shut down with ferra, Lackey performs better here.

Take this with a grain of salt as it comes from a character loyalist (and I rarely play really good kitanas) but I give it to F/T 6-4 most games.

 

[Airvidal]

Wait, beside F41D2 Shinnok has another string?

haha well, d4 is not really a string but the last hell spark will hit 95% of the time. Whenever I play Shinnok, I avoid doing his f4,1....string into hell sparks on block cause the last one whiffs every time. I don't recall his other strings lol

 

[Tweedy]

This match up chart is kind of weird tbh, now that i'm messing around with the character a bit more. I'd rather know what her consensus number is vs the most relevant or hardest variation for her to play against, not it plus how she does vs Grandma's cookie recipe variation. Nah mean?

How do you think she does vs Flamefist and Dragon's Fire? I see that Liu Kang cannot parry EX DP(also that it doesn't combo if he does EX DB2 ).

I'm also curious about the Jax match up. By this chart I don't know if she beats Pumped up and loses to Wrestler, or what the deal is. Is it 5-5 across the board?

 

[xKhaoTik]

This match up chart is kind of weird tbh, now that i'm messing around with the character a bit more. I'd rather know what her consensus number is vs the most relevant or hardest variation for her to play against, not it plus how she does vs Grandma's cookie recipe variation. Nah mean?

Yea i got you. I might just make a separate one for each variation.
HQT and GM straight up dog her lol

How do you think she does vs Flamefist and Dragon's Fire? I see that Liu Kang cannot parry EX DP(also that it doesn't combo if he does EX DB2

She beats flame fist. His zoning is faster and does more damage, but it's just a nuisance and easy to avoid. Kitana's zoning is more devastating. His pressure is pretty bad vs her since windmill punches gets punished. Every. SINGLE. Time. Even if he cancels into anything, including parry, it gets punished. The only way to avoid a punish is if he does that backhand punch thing that sends you full screen on hit, but she can just read that, jump back and punish. Not to mention RS can just reflect the zoning
Dragons Fire is even. The zoning is pretty much the same but the pressure is far more intense. Whoever gets the life lead is gonna win basically.

I'm also curious about the Jax match up. By this chart I don't know if she beats Pumped up and loses to Wrestler, or what the deal is. Is it 5-5 across the board?

She beats heavy weapons. I believe she loses to wrestler. She's fine against pumped up tho

 

[HanSolo]

I might just make a separate one for each variation.
HQT and GM straight up dog her lol

Any chance you're still planning on putting this together? Would love to see one like Pig's that has matchups for each variation versus each characters variation.