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Kitana General Discussion

I watched Koisy vs Ninja killa stream.
Koisy's Kitana relies way too much on jumping and the fuzzyable B231d2/lowfan mix up to deal any damage. When facing an flawless block master, anti-air god like Ninja killa, Koisy can't do anything. This resulted in a one sided FT10
I'm not saying Koisy is bad. In fact I am big fan of his Sindel. He has amazing movement and neutral skills. The truth is, Kitana sucks. Her movement is very bad and that doesn't fit Koisy's playstyle at all
I'm calling it, when Koisy loses a match with Kitana, he will switch to Sindel. IMO custom Sindel deals with every matchup in this game much better than Kitana
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Are they still intending to pick up Kitana and show why she is "broke"? Two months have almost passed.

Perhaps Tekken Master will use her over Cetrion at WePlay? LOL.
Tweedy dropped her, F0xy is still playing her and doing well. I don't know if we'll see her at we play. Tekkenmaster will probably just use Cetrion and Jacqui.
 

Arqwart

D'Vorah for KP2 copium
I watched Koisy vs Ninja killa stream.
Koisy's Kitana relies way too much on jumping and the fuzzyable B231d2/lowfan mix up to deal any damage. When facing an flawless block master, anti-air god like Ninja killa, Koisy can't do anything. This resulted in a one sided FT10
I'm not saying Koisy is bad. In fact I am big fan of his Sindel. He has amazing movement and neutral skills. The truth is, Kitana sucks. Her movement is very bad and that doesn't fit Koisy's playstyle at all
I'm calling it, when Koisy loses a match with Kitana, he will switch to Sindel. IMO custom Sindel deals with every matchup in this game much better than Kitana
I adore watching Koisy's Kitana. Koisy is a core source of my getting considerably better at the character. However, as you mentioned and even more than the ones mentioned, Kitana relies entirely on a few key tactics depending on her slotted moves.

  1. Flutter block pressure / chip. Super easy to anti-air if called out and she's so high up when it happens that it's free combo town
  2. Opponent not knowing to flawless block amplified Low Fan or not reacting to unamplified
  3. Post-block flawless block after B142, B231, 12D2, etc.
  4. Zoning
  5. HBS teleport callouts
  6. HBS sai block pressure / oki
  7. Low Fan / Ground War Twist 50/50s
  8. Throws
Literally all of the above tactics are easily circumvented by competent players. The only one that's true luck is the 50/50 Twist situation, but BOTH options are entirely death on block if the opponent guesses right (all for a smidge of damage and a knockdown). Opting for the 50/50 variation also takes all of Kitana's slots and sacrifices butt KB / armor break. Once those tactics are off the table, Kitana is reduced to a really bad stagger game, some of the worst forward and THE worst backward movement in the game, decent at best mids, 0 unfuzzyable mixups (save for Twist/Low Fan as explained as being suicidal above), good combo damage in the rare event she manages to open the opponent up, and 3-4 good KBs (D2, slice, B142 punish, butt armor break).

With the opening up of customs, I really do not understand what Kitana is expected to do at this point except be painfully average and bully Kung Lao players (as is tradition). Fun, but average as hell and flagrantly outclassed. Her main gameplay style comps I'd say are Liu, Cetrion, Shang, and Kabal; but literally all 4 of them do what she does just as competently, if not better, while also being notably better at other aspects. Kabal is a better air combatant while having great staggers, now better combo power, and fantastic weapon-range buttons. Liu is just as good a zoner while having one of the top 3 best sets of KBs and fantastic staggers / speed. Cetrion is Cetrion. Shang is just as good a zoner while having a WAY better anti-zoning tool, damn good stagger / mixup options, and just as easy hit confirms into slightly less damage.

To go off on a tangent for a minute, it really does feel like Kitana is balanced around the idea of fan combos from pre-release. "She sucks ass at pressure, staggers, and mixups; but once she gets you it's gunna hurt like hell!" If she did on par if not more damage than charge Spawn / air dash Kabal combos on top of being able to have her traditional full-screen fan juggles, I could understand arguments for her being so mediocre elsewhere. The issue is she doesn't have that damage threat. If NRS wants to keep Kitana as this stifled, flickering flame in a wet cave, at least make her fuck your day up anytime she gets a hit confirm. Bring in the 38-40%+ damage combos and 15-20%+ full-screen fan juggle combos.

Also, give her a backdash please. It's been 2 years.
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
Two years later and Kitana has no defined archetype. You live and die by fighting people who either know how to deal with her best tools, or let you steamroll.

I think she was just thrown in the game because her name is Kitana, and there wasn’t actually a lot of thought process involved when designing her.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Two years later and Kitana has no defined archetype. You live and die by fighting people who either know how to deal with her best tools, or let you steamroll.

I think she was just thrown in the game because her name is Kitana, and there wasn’t actually a lot of thought process involved when designing her.
She's a zoner. Her success comes from sai toss and low fan toss.
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
She's a zoner. Her success comes from sai toss and low fan toss.
No, she’s not, at least not at base.

Kitana has to equip all of the moves that would make her a proper zoner. Shang, Skarlet, Cetrion, etc. do not, because they were designed as zoners from the ground up and have a variety of zoning tools layered in their base kit.

From Kitana’s general design, she has no defined game plan. This works for characters who function well as a Jack-of-all-Trades archetype (Liu Kang), unfortunately, Kitana neither excels at anything or is well-rounded enough to make multiple playstyles work.

She simply lives or dies by whether or not the opponent knows how to counter her strongest custom tools.
 

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
I adore watching Koisy's Kitana. Koisy is a core source of my getting considerably better at the character. However, as you mentioned and even more than the ones mentioned, Kitana relies entirely on a few key tactics depending on her slotted moves.

  1. Flutter block pressure / chip. Super easy to anti-air if called out and she's so high up when it happens that it's free combo town
  2. Opponent not knowing to flawless block amplified Low Fan or not reacting to unamplified
  3. Post-block flawless block after B142, B231, 12D2, etc.
  4. Zoning
  5. HBS teleport callouts
  6. HBS sai block pressure / oki
  7. Low Fan / Ground War Twist 50/50s
  8. Throws
Literally all of the above tactics are easily circumvented by competent players. The only one that's true luck is the 50/50 Twist situation, but BOTH options are entirely death on block if the opponent guesses right (all for a smidge of damage and a knockdown). Opting for the 50/50 variation also takes all of Kitana's slots and sacrifices butt KB / armor break. Once those tactics are off the table, Kitana is reduced to a really bad stagger game, some of the worst forward and THE worst backward movement in the game, decent at best mids, 0 unfuzzyable mixups (save for Twist/Low Fan as explained as being suicidal above), good combo damage in the rare event she manages to open the opponent up, and 3-4 good KBs (D2, slice, B142 punish, butt armor break).

With the opening up of customs, I really do not understand what Kitana is expected to do at this point except be painfully average and bully Kung Lao players (as is tradition). Fun, but average as hell and flagrantly outclassed. Her main gameplay style comps I'd say are Liu, Cetrion, Shang, and Kabal; but literally all 4 of them do what she does just as competently, if not better, while also being notably better at other aspects. Kabal is a better air combatant while having great staggers, now better combo power, and fantastic weapon-range buttons. Liu is just as good a zoner while having one of the top 3 best sets of KBs and fantastic staggers / speed. Cetrion is Cetrion. Shang is just as good a zoner while having a WAY better anti-zoning tool, damn good stagger / mixup options, and just as easy hit confirms into slightly less damage.

To go off on a tangent for a minute, it really does feel like Kitana is balanced around the idea of fan combos from pre-release. "She sucks ass at pressure, staggers, and mixups; but once she gets you it's gunna hurt like hell!" If she did on par if not more damage than charge Spawn / air dash Kabal combos on top of being able to have her traditional full-screen fan juggles, I could understand arguments for her being so mediocre elsewhere. The issue is she doesn't have that damage threat. If NRS wants to keep Kitana as this stifled, flickering flame in a wet cave, at least make her fuck your day up anytime she gets a hit confirm. Bring in the 38-40%+ damage combos and 15-20%+ full-screen fan juggle combos.

Also, give her a backdash please. It's been 2 years.
THIS. ALLLLL THIS.
 

Ace255

Noob
Is it worth amplifying fan on block off a deep jump in to get plus frames? I know u can be like plus 2 if spaced right but idk if it is worth a bar of offensive meter.
 

Ace255

Noob
Also do yall agree with the end of game tier lists pro players made that place kitana high mid tier/high tier. Some said she was low tier like bottom 10/bottom 4 but multiple said she was like upper mid. I think she got slightly better with customs aside from highborn but at the same time highborn was the strongest moveset she had imo and that was nerfed
 
Also do yall agree with the end of game tier lists pro players made that place kitana high mid tier/high tier. Some said she was low tier like bottom 10/bottom 4 but multiple said she was like upper mid. I think she got slightly better with customs aside from highborn but at the same time highborn was the strongest moveset she had imo and that was nerfed
Can you link to the tier lists?

As far as I know, she's still solid mid-tier.
 

Mattatsu

Noob
My main variation has been ground war, low fan, and flutter, but I recently tried replacing low fan with up fan and am really liking it.

i definitely miss out on the low fan cancels, but they weren’t that great anyway against better players (with the B321 string being fuzziable, and the amplified hit of the low fan being able to be FB’d).

what I gain with up fan is better combos (like every one of my BNB’s have seen a 10% damage increase, at least), and some real nice AA combos.

I’m not sure if it’ll become my main variation, but I’m having fun with it now.

I definitely need a HBS variation to counter zoners though. Which ability (out of low fan and ground war) do you guys like to pair up with HBS?
 
My main variation has been ground war, low fan, and flutter, but I recently tried replacing low fan with up fan and am really liking it.

i definitely miss out on the low fan cancels, but they weren’t that great anyway against better players (with the B321 string being fuzziable, and the amplified hit of the low fan being able to be FB’d).

what I gain with up fan is better combos (like every one of my BNB’s have seen a 10% damage increase, at least), and some real nice AA combos.

I’m not sure if it’ll become my main variation, but I’m having fun with it now.

I definitely need a HBS variation to counter zoners though. Which ability (out of low fan and ground war) do you guys like to pair up with HBS?
Low Fan is the standard paring with Half Blood Stance, and in my experience it does quite well. In my opinion, it's her strongest and most versatile Variation. Her standard Air Fan Flutter, Low Fan, and Ground War is a strong second Variation that does better in certain match ups.
 

Mattatsu

Noob
Low Fan is the standard paring with Half Blood Stance, and in my experience it does quite well. In my opinion, it's her strongest and most versatile Variation. Her standard Air Fan Flutter, Low Fan, and Ground War is a strong second Variation that does better in certain match ups.
Good to know! I'll have these two variations set, with a third for up fan, ground war, and flutter (maybe just for fun, but I will see how it handles certain MUs).
 
Good to know! I'll have these two variations set, with a third for up fan, ground war, and flutter (maybe just for fun, but I will see how it handles certain MUs).
Cool. At the end of the day, try the Abilities you want; that's the point of the system. Just because something isn't "optimal" doesn't mean it won't work for you. I've also had good success, especially in the lower tiers of Kombat League, with Air Piercing Dagger.