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Question - Kitana Kitana frame traps

Hello community so I started learning kitana to help my girlfriend pick up a few things with her and I gotta say I kinda took a liking to the little fan slinger. I understand her gameplay and have good results using b3 into lift in the neutral. One thing I keep hearing about is kitanas frame traps. I looked everywhere and cannot find anything about them. Does anyone know some or link me to a site? I'm new to nrs (street fighter player) and am still learning reading frame data. Any help would be appreciated for the princess of my princess. Thanks
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
A frame trap is using a move that is plus on block/hit or not punishable and using another move right after that will literally, beat your opponents next move. A Kitana frame trap could be using 2,1 - which is +2 on block - then using D1 straight after it. D1 is 8 frames, so because you have 2 frames of advantage your D1 will come out 2 frames before your opponent can push a button. Since 8 - 2 = 6, it will trade with any 6 frame moves and stuff anything that has 7 or more frames of startup. Of course an armoured/invincible move with beat your frame trap - which is where the mind games come in.
Another frame trap could be using 212 on block, which is -3, then using an armoured move to beat the opponents next move since there is no move that any character can guarentee to even check you. Armour beats this.

Basically, it's using basic maths and knowledge of the frame data to literally create a trap so you can attack your opponent.

If you're struggling with frame data then I suggest checking out this thread, by Eddy Wang:
http://testyourmight.com/threads/how-to-read-understand-and-calculate-frame-data-in-mkx.49708/
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
A frame trap is using a move that is plus on block/hit or not punishable and using another move right after that will literally, beat your opponents next move. A Kitana frame trap could be using 2,1 - which is +2 on block - then using D1 straight after it. D1 is 8 frames, so because you have 2 frames of advantage your D1 will come out 2 frames before your opponent can push a button. Since 8 - 2 = 6, it will trade with any 6 frame moves and stuff anything that has 7 or more frames of startup. Of course an armoured/invincible move with beat your frame trap - which is where the mind games come in.
Another frame trap could be using 212 on block, which is -3, then using an armoured move to beat the opponents next move since there is no move that any character can guarentee to even check you. Armour beats this.

Basically, it's using basic maths and knowledge of the frame data to literally create a trap so you can attack your opponent.

If you're struggling with frame data then I suggest checking out this thread, by Eddy Wang:
http://testyourmight.com/threads/how-to-read-understand-and-calculate-frame-data-in-mkx.49708/
Actually, if you're +2, an 8 frame move will beat out any normal that's not 5 frames or faster, and trade with any reversal that's 6 frames or faster.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
Actually, if you're +2, an 8 frame move will beat out any normal that's not 5 frames or faster, and trade with any reversal that's 6 frames or faster.
Oh snap, you are correct. I forgot about the reversal system in MKX. Apologies to the OP for the misinformation.
 
A frame trap is using a move that is plus on block/hit or not punishable and using another move right after that will literally, beat your opponents next move. A Kitana frame trap could be using 2,1 - which is +2 on block - then using D1 straight after it. D1 is 8 frames, so because you have 2 frames of advantage your D1 will come out 2 frames before your opponent can push a button. Since 8 - 2 = 6, it will trade with any 6 frame moves and stuff anything that has 7 or more frames of startup. Of course an armoured/invincible move with beat your frame trap - which is where the mind games come in.
Another frame trap could be using 212 on block, which is -3, then using an armoured move to beat the opponents next move since there is no move that any character can guarentee to even check you. Armour beats this.

Basically, it's using basic maths and knowledge of the frame data to literally create a trap so you can attack your opponent.

If you're struggling with frame data then I suggest checking out this thread, by Eddy Wang:
http://testyourmight.com/threads/how-to-read-understand-and-calculate-frame-data-in-mkx.49708/
Let me know if I am correct 212 has a block adv of -3 and if I were to follow with D1 which has a start up of 8 frames, if 212 is blocked, then the the calculation would be 8 minus -3 which is 11 frames(8 - -3= 11) so my opponent would need a special of 11 frame start up,or faster to hit me or a normal move of 10 frames of start up or faster to hit me, did I do this right
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
Let me know if I am correct 212 has a block adv of -3 and if I were to follow with D1 which has a start up of 8 frames, if 212 is blocked, then the the calculation would be 8 minus -3 which is 11 frames(8 - -3= 11) so my opponent would need a special of 11 frame start up,or faster to hit me or a normal move of 10 frames of start up or faster to hit me, did I do this right
Your arithmetic is correct, good sir. If your D1 won't hit until frame 11 of this hypothetical sequence then an 11 frame special (even as a reversal, I believe) will trade with your D1 I think. If they do a 10 frame normal or special it will beat out the D1 if they are on point with their execution.
 
Your arithmetic is correct, good sir. If your D1 won't hit until frame 11 of this hypothetical sequence then an 11 frame special (even as a reversal, I believe) will trade with your D1 I think. If they do a 10 frame normal or special it will beat out the D1 if they are on point with their execution.
Thanks
 
Your arithmetic is correct, good sir. If your D1 won't hit until frame 11 of this hypothetical sequence then an 11 frame special (even as a reversal, I believe) will trade with your D1 I think. If they do a 10 frame normal or special it will beat out the D1 if they are on point with their execution.
Who do you like better kitana rs or ermac mystic, Iam no good at this game, but for me she has faster basic kombo moves, he has faster basic moves that cancel into tele, push and burst, but that can be a little tight, I also feel fan nado hits the opponent easier than lift, i seem to connect f11xxdb1 more often with her than I do ffxxdb1(lift) against the CPU character like Kung Lao when KL does an unsafe move that I block, like when he throws his hat at close range, I nail him constantly with her f11xxdb1but not to frequently with his ffxxbd1, KL usually gets juggled with her nado, but he usually is somehow able to block Mystics tele after hit confirming his 11 prior to the tele, even though I blocked his unsafe hat toss, just my thoughts,
 
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Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
Who do you like better kitana rs or ermac mystic, Iam no good at this game, but for me she has faster basic kombo moves, he has faster basic moves that cancel into tele, push and burst, but that can be a little tight, I also feel fan nado hits the opponent easier than lift, i seem to connect f11xxdb1 more often with her than I do ffxxdb1(lift) against the CPU character like Kung Lao when KL does an unsafe move that I block, like when he throws his hat at close range, I nail him constantly with her f11xxdb1but not to frequently with his ffxxbd1, KL usually gets juggled with her nado, but he usually is somehow able to block Mystics tele after hit confirming his 11 prior to the tele, even though I blocked his unsafe hat toss, just my thoughts,
I like Kitana more than Ermac personally but Ermac has 50/50's all the time and the EX Push which is a great move. Kitana is more execution heavy probably with her instant air fans whereas Ermac just has a motion, y'know?
 
I like Kitana more than Ermac personally but Ermac has 50/50's all the time and the EX Push which is a great move. Kitana is more execution heavy probably with her instant air fans whereas Ermac just has a motion, y'know?
Thanks, I do like ermac, been labs get the stuffing out of him, he does have descent 50/50's, I was setting the ai to Kung Lao hat toss, and really worked on the punish of 11xxdb1, and it is coming together, and actually easier now that kitana's fan nado that I described earlier, love the lab, it has been a great tool, learning experience and an overall outstanding aid and motivater, thanks again for the response scott the Scot, from Scott, my real name slap, and my grandparents were from Scotland, I want to visit there, Thanks again
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
Thanks, I do like ermac, been labs get the stuffing out of him, he does have descent 50/50's, I was setting the ai to Kung Lao hat toss, and really worked on the punish of 11xxdb1, and it is coming together, and actually easier now that kitana's fan nado that I described earlier, love the lab, it has been a great tool, learning experience and an overall outstanding aid and motivater, thanks again for the response scott the Scot, from Scott, my real name slap, and my grandparents were from Scotland, I want to visit there, Thanks again
The lab is a great place. Scott is a great name and Scotland is a great place, you should definitely visit :)
 

Airvidal

"You play weird" It's called being unorthodox ;)
Hi, welcome to MKX. Don't use b3 into lift. It's punishable. Only use it if it's a punish, and even then you're better off doing b1, 4, into lift. If you're getting results with b3, into lift, it means you may be playing beginners. Use b3 into df1, EX. Your result will be ending up +1 so you can continue pressure if blocked. If it lands, you can hit confirm for 40%.

If you want some easy basic combos of hers you can check out my video. I don't have the hit confirm combo off of b1, 4, into df1, EX though.
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
There are also "reaction trap" with F11. It's -2 on block but the full string has 3 hit, she can stop at F11 then do B14. It's very hard to react this stagger string, people are usually late for the counterpoke and get caught by B1
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Hi, welcome to MKX. Don't use b3 into lift. It's punishable. Only use it if it's a punish, and even then you're better off doing b1, 4, into lift. If you're getting results with b3, into lift, it means you may be playing beginners. Use b3 into df1, EX. Your result will be ending up +1 so you can continue pressure if blocked. If it lands, you can hit confirm for 40%.

If you want some easy basic combos of hers you can check out my video. I don't have the hit confirm combo off of b1, 4, into df1, EX though.
B3 lift is safe in RS against like 95% of the cast at max range. It's a pretty good footsie tool
 
Hi, welcome to MKX. Don't use b3 into lift. It's punishable. Only use it if it's a punish, and even then you're better off doing b1, 4, into lift. If you're getting results with b3, into lift, it means you may be playing beginners. Use b3 into df1, EX. Your result will be ending up +1 so you can continue pressure if blocked. If it lands, you can hit confirm for 40%.

If you want some easy basic combos of hers you can check out my video. I don't have the hit confirm combo off of b1, 4, into df1, EX though.
I believe b3 has a block adv of -8, I also think it has some push back, correct me if iam wrong, so if my opponent blocks b3 he would be able to punish with a special move of 8 frame start up or less or a normal move with a start up of 7 frames
B3 lift is safe in RS against like 95% of the cast at max range. It's a pretty good footsie tool
That's what I thought
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
I believe b3 has a block adv of -8, I also think it has some push back, correct me if iam wrong, so if my opponent blocks b3 he would be able to punish with a special move of 8 frame start up or less or a normal move with a start up of 7 frames
She ducks very low and because most 6f 7f normals are high, it's very hard to punish her raw b3
B3 lift is safe in RS against like 95% of the cast at max range
Can you make a video about this? Like a "Myth buster" showing everyone's options about RS B3 lift
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
She ducks very low and because most 6f 7f normals are high, it's very hard to punish her raw b3

Can you make a video about this? Like a "Myth buster" showing everyone's options about RS B3 lift
Yea sure. I'll make it sometime this week
 
There are also "reaction trap" with F11. It's -2 on block but the full string has 3 hit, she can stop at F11 then do B14. It's very hard to react this stagger string, people are usually late for the counterpoke and get caught by B1
Wait so a good string would be f11, then continue with b14? How safe is that?
 

Airvidal

"You play weird" It's called being unorthodox ;)
B3 lift is safe in RS against like 95% of the cast at max range. It's a pretty good footsie tool
She's -17, She gets punished by almost every advancing move in the game and also a good number of standing moves. You probably tested by setting up Kitana to do a reversal lift. Record her doing b3, lift at max range and you'll see she gets punished every time.

I believe b3 has a block adv of -8, I also think it has some push back, correct me if iam wrong, so if my opponent blocks b3 he would be able to punish with a special move of 8 frame start up or less or a normal move with a start up of 7 frames

That's what I thought
Yeah, that is perfectly correct. But since you can just stagger b3, I doubt anyone would ever be ready to punish a b3.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
She's -17, She gets punished by almost every advancing move in the game and also a good number of standing moves. You probably tested by setting up Kitana to do a reversal lift. Record her doing b3, lift at max range and you'll see she gets punished every time.
She's -17 point blank. The further she's out, the safer it becomes. I know what I'm talking about man. Yes some characters can punish it but not all. Mileena still can't punish with b1 in piercing, Cassie still can't b1, D'vorah can't f1. Alien and others characters with strings as far and fast as his can still punish tho

Lift by itself at max range is only punishable by reptile as far as I know
 
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Airvidal

"You play weird" It's called being unorthodox ;)
She's -17 point blank. The further she's out, the safer it becomes. I know what I'm talking about man. Yes some characters can punish it but not all. Mileena still can't punish with b1 in piercing, Cassie still can't b1, D'vorah can't f1. Alien and others characters with strings as far and fast as his can still punish tho

Lift by itself at max range is only punishable by reptile as far as I know
Yeah, you said it, "lift". Test b3 into lift. I thought this was our subject, not lift alone