General/Other Kitana Frame Data Conclusions/Blocked String Gaps

[Chaosphere]

First of all, big credit to Somberness. I used his frame data to draw these conclusions.

This is a rough draft of a chart I made to show all of the frame gaps in Kitana's combo strings. ALL of her combo strings. I wanted to make these charts to see what strings are punishable, and what I can do to punish them. Some strings have large gaps. Some strings have gaps of only 1 or 2 frames. Unfortunately you have to know your own character's frame data to find out what you can punish with, but I plan on making these charts for as many characters as I can.

I want to point out though that just because something has a certain amount of frames in a gap, that doesn't necessarily mean that only moves of that amount of frames or less will win. Moves like mileena's d4 can throw things off due to having such a low hitbox, but this is a rare case.

Like I said earlier, this is a rough draft. If there's any erroneous information or anything that looks like a typo, let me know. If you have any suggestions to make this easier to read, I'm open. If you have any questions let me know.

 

[Chongo]

RunwayMafia

 

[xKhaoTik]

I don't understand the b2 section. She can only cancel b2 into air fan/xray/air ass but this list has her canceling it into pretty kick and such.

Overall, thanks for this. Learned a few things here

 

[Chaosphere]

I don't understand the b2 section. She can only cancel b2 into air fan/xray/air ass but this list has her canceling it into pretty kick and such.

Overall, thanks for this. Learned a few things here

Yeah my bad. Just realized that. Ill remove those other specials from that string.

EDIT: Ok. Fixed.

 

[Konqrr]

I forgot that I did a chart for her frame data before the site crashed.

It has everything except gaps, so thank you for doing this!

http://imageshack.us/a/img525/6350/mk9kitanaframedata.png

 

[Espio]

I forgot that I did a chart for her frame data before the site crashed.

It has everything except gaps, so thank you for doing this!

http://imageshack.us/a/img525/6350/mk9kitanaframedata.png

OMG I love this layout, I'd love something like this for all character forums, did you use regular microsoft excel? I would make one for my characters as a sticky potentially.

 

[Konqrr]

OMG I love this layout, I'd love something like this for all character forums, did you use regular microsoft excel? I would make one for my characters as a sticky potentially.

Yeah, excel 2007. I have 2010, but I'm too lazy to install it.

 

[aj1701]

I forgot that I did a chart for her frame data before the site crashed.

It has everything except gaps, so thank you for doing this!

http://imageshack.us/a/img525/6350/mk9kitanaframedata.png[/quote]

I'm a noob at frame data; is the first Execution column the number of frames the attack takes? If it is, 3 by itself is slower than 333? I must not understand that that column is.

 

[Konqrr]

I'm a noob at frame data; is the first Execution column the number of frames the attack takes? If it is, 3 by itself is slower than 333? I must not understand that that column is.

For moves that have more than one hit in the string like 333, the frame data is incremental. The first 3 has 12 frames of startup as shown in the column for 3 itself. Then the second kick in 333 is 14 frames after the first kick. Then the third kick in 333 is 9 frames after the second kick.

Hope that helps.

 

[Espio]

Yeah, excel 2007. I have 2010, but I'm too lazy to install it.

That's perfect actually, that's the excel I have too lol.

 

[Tong Lung]

Chaosphere


There are some numbers for the normals cancelled into specials that confuse me. For instance you have the frame gap for 4-Fakeout and D4-Fakeout at 13 frames, shouldn't it be 5 frames since the execution of fakeout is 31f and both 4 and d4 have a cancel adv of +26 on block?

I'm wondering if there are other things you're taking into consideration or if it's just an oversight.

 

[Konqrr]

EDIT: n/m, I'm a noob.

I'm sure this formula is correct:
Special Move - (Cancel Advantage + Block Advantage) = Gap

So, d4~fok should be 5f (31-(26-0)=5), but 4~fok should be 12f (31-(26-7)=12).

 

[Tong Lung]

Konqrr

That does make sense, I forgot to take the block advantage into account.

Thanks.

 

[4x4lo8o]

Chaosphere
There are some numbers for the normals cancelled into specials that confuse me. For instance you have the frame gap for 4-Fakeout and D4-Fakeout at 13 frames, shouldn't it be 5 frames since the execution of fakeout is 31f and both 4 and d4 have a cancel adv of +26 on block?

I'm wondering if there are other things you're taking into consideration or if it's just an oversight.

The way you calculated should be right. The entire section for 4 and d4 are actually off by 8 frames. 33, b33, and f4 appear to be off as well

Chaosphere

The numbers for f4 cancel advantage and f3 on block and hit, as well as your gap data for the strings(probably because of f4) don't match Somberness numbers from the frame data thread

Tong Lung

I'm sure this formula is correct:
Special Move - (Cancel Advantage + Block Advantage) = Gap

So, d4~fok should be 5f (31-(26-0)=5), but 4~fok should be 12f (31-(26-7)=12).

Please correct me if I am wrong Chaosphere Somberness

I don't believe that's correct. If it is it would make every one of the numbers on this chart wrong for the moves/strings that are negative on block.

For example, for 112 cancelled into fok:
31fr- (19fr -13fr) = 25fr

Doesn't match Chaosphere's numbers at all, but the method Tong Lung used does

 

[Tong Lung]

I see, I've been using the (cancel adv-execution) formula regardless of whether it applied to a string of normals or special moves.

Somberness

Do you ever have to consider the block adv when calculating frame gaps or is the (cancel advantage-execution of the move being cancelled into) formula universal for normals and specials?

 

[4x4lo8o]

I see, I've been using the (cancel adv-execution) formula regardless of whether it applied to a string of normals or special moves.

Somberness

Do you ever have to consider the block adv when calculating frame gaps or is the (cancel advantage-execution of the move being cancelled into) formula universal for normals and specials?

That's the correct way to do it. Block advantage doesn't matter if you cancel into another move. If you're cancelling only use cancel advantage. Nothing changes between normals and specials, it's always the difference between cancel advantage and execution

 

[Tong Lung]

That's the correct way to do it. Block advantage doesn't matter if you cancel into another move. If you're cancelling only use cancel advantage. Nothing changes between normals and specials, it's always the difference between cancel advantage and execution

That's good to know, otherwise I'd have a lot of editing to do

 

[Konqrr]

That's the correct way to do it. Block advantage doesn't matter if you cancel into another move. If you're cancelling only use cancel advantage. Nothing changes between normals and specials, it's always the difference between cancel advantage and execution

True, I'm a gap noob lol

 

[Chaosphere]

Shit. Could have just been a typo while entering the numbers in the spreadsheet. I'll fix it soon.