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Match-Up Disussion - Boneshaper KHTC Jink's Boneshaper Match-Up Discussion

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
When I saw Sub-Zero destroys Shinnok and "Johnny can't get in." I immediately stopped reading to write this comment.
Well being that johnnys worst mu is shinnok..and shinnoks worst mu is sub zero. Remember this is boneshaper only. Johnny has a very difficult time getting in on boneshaper and sub zero makes most of boneshapers tools useless. I have talked with many subs about this and they agree. I also play a very very good johnny and he agrees that it is hard for johnny to get in on shinnok.
 

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
How the fuck can you say that Shinnok vs Ferra Torr is 5-5.
Calm it down lol. This is boneshaper, not imposter. As I said i haven't played many high level f/t's so i'm not 100 hundred percent. But from what i've played so far, boneshaper goes even with f/t.
 

flappysamyhamy

EMPEROR FLAPPY / EGGPLANT
If you're getting beat with sub to the extent that you would call the matchup a 6-4, there is a chance you are getting badly outplayed, or you are just doing everything wrong in the matchup. In my opinion bone shaper is definitely 5-5 if not slightly in shinnok's favor.
 

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
If you're getting beat with sub to the extent that you would call the matchup a 6-4, there is a chance you are getting badly outplayed, or you are just doing everything wrong in the matchup. In my opinion bone shaper is definitely 5-5 if not slightly in shinnok's favor.
Hmm, depends on what you define a 6-4 as. I know when i'm getting outplayed and I have labbed that mu with many of the subs in my clan like idante and acid, but I always end up at the conclusion it is a bad mu. Dante and I have talked about this and he agrees that many of boneshapers tools become irrelevant in this mu. As imposter I could see what you're saying, but i'm pretty set on the fact boneshaper loses to sub. You could be right however, I could be doing something wrong that could change my mind about the mu, but that has yet to be shown to me so my opinion still stands.
 

flappysamyhamy

EMPEROR FLAPPY / EGGPLANT
No but really, have you labbed all punishes with ex scoop and raw hellsparks? Hellsparks control clone pretty well
 

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
No but really, have you labbed all punishes with ex scoop and raw hellsparks? Hellsparks control clone pretty well
To an extent, I havent grinded that mu too too much because I would never go boneshaper in the first place. But I have labbed them with ex scoop.
 

Ecodus

I ain't got time to bleed.
I see what you're saying but im a full auto main and I have fought many boneshapers as jacqui, I also fight (who I believe is the best full auto jacqui out there) stb krizbe. Her plus frames and frametraps are scary but nothing that bad for shinnok, i still have a great backdash that f1 cant chase after 1212 and her zoning becoming obsolete is a very big deal imo. Also, she doesnt have a very easy punish vs hell sparks if all three hit (it's possible, just tough) and shinnok staggers kill her. I'm also pretty positive she cant make all of f41d2 whiff if she makess my f4 whiff, she will have to block the rest of the string. She really doesn't have anything on shinnok whatsoever, most of her tools become irrelevant and she cant even use her buttons that well.

Also I'm only on xb1 for now sadly. gt: KHTC Jink
I guess we'll just agree to disagree then :). If all three hellsparks hit on block Jacqui can reversal bf1 punish everytime and ex BF1 also covers if you EX after the 3rd hellspark. Her zoning doesn't become obsolete just because Shinnok has a slight advantage in the zoning game.

I don't see how f1 not being able to chase down backdash after 1212 (or any situation Jacqui leaves herself at +2) is relevant. I also don't know why you'd be using f1 after 1212. if you read a back dash run in and punish, shoot guns and punish, jump in and pressure... Shinnok has a good backdash don't get me wrong, I just don't think it has that much bearing on the MU.

She doesn't need to make the entire f41d2 string whiff, whiff punishing the f4 before the rest of the string comes out is very possible. I'm not buying the f41 staggers killing her. I mean the stagger is -5, but maybe that's your experience.

as for "the best Jacqui comment". I've never seen or played stb Krizbe, but I did see the Full auto guide he made. The impression of that guide (considering the misinformation and lack of using the new tools jacqui got in recent patches) makes me think he might not be the most up to date Jacqui out there. That's just the impression I get. He could very well be the best out there, I'd just find that hard to believe having seen guys like Revolver and Youngmonster getting results Offline and at ESL.

Too bad you aren't on ps4.
 

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
I guess we'll just agree to disagree then :). If all three hellsparks hit on block Jacqui can reversal bf1 punish everytime and ex BF1 also covers if you EX after the 3rd hellspark. Her zoning doesn't become obsolete just because Shinnok has a slight advantage in the zoning game.

I don't see how f1 not being able to chase down backdash after 1212 (or any situation Jacqui leaves herself at +2) is relevant. I also don't know why you'd be using f1 after 1212. if you read a back dash run in and punish, shoot guns and punish, jump in and pressure... Shinnok has a good backdash don't get me wrong, I just don't think it has that much bearing on the MU.

She doesn't need to make the entire f41d2 string whiff, whiff punishing the f4 before the rest of the string comes out is very possible. I'm not buying the f41 staggers killing her. I mean the stagger is -5, but maybe that's your experience.

as for "the best Jacqui comment". I've never seen or played stb Krizbe, but I did see the Full auto guide he made. The impression of that guide (considering the misinformation and lack of using the new tools jacqui got in recent patches) makes me think he might not be the most up to date Jacqui out there. That's just the impression I get. He could very well be the best out there, I'd just find that hard to believe having seen guys like Revolver and Youngmonster getting results Offline and at ESL.

Too bad you aren't on ps4.
The backdash becomes a major factor in her 1212 pressure as i can just option select. Her zoning becomes a non factorable factor in a sense because you can only do it from absoloute full screen. and you can't react to f4 whiffing running in and punishing before the second part comes out, its just too fast. She loses in footsies, overall buttons, zoning, and their pressure is about equal. And for the stagger, although it is minus 5, its not she isnt able to poke because her pokes don't reach by the time i do f4 again.

Also, what did krizbe leave out, im curious