Joker Parry 1.05 Discussion

[Cat]

So much parry talk all over. So made this for us to discuss his parry on one thread. Should go over some parry set ups amd maybe even combos off parrys.
Special moves we can parry on opponents wake up and those we cant.

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[chores]

someone needs t make a 3HA's combo vid

 

[StevoSuprem0]

At first I was thinking there wouldn't be any additional setups, but that's not true because the air time changes drastically, so you can probably land j3 in alot of interesting was with multiple HAs.
I'd still like to see a comparison of the parries in the game as it is now. Joker's has the option to his low, but has and extra frame of startup (2 frames vs 1 frame for everyone else). Ok fine, its a button press instead of a directional input so longer startup makes sense. But what about the active frames now that the buff has happened? Are they the same now or are there still differences in active frames? I definitely think the active frames between all the parries should be the same, but that doesn't mean they are... If anyone has tested this or knows the frame data, let's compare how things stack up.

 

[Cat]

someone needs t make a 3HA's combo vid

Once the patch is out. Ill work on level 2 and 3 combos. Its hard now since they only 9 seconds does not give time to experiment. Not to mention landing a hit withing 9 seconds on a opponent is not easy.

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[laudanum09]

I could see using parry as an oki attack being more and more viable. the basic Oki game in fighting games is to attack and get blown up by wakeups, do nothing and punish wakeup, attack and hit or get blocked, do nothing and they do nothing.

so if we use parry as an Oki then that covers all possible options. if they are blocking expecting meaty attacks, they won't be ready to punish a whiffed parry IMO, not when they're looking for crossups/overheads/lows/throws etc.

 

[laudanum09]

Once the patch is out. Ill work on level 2 and 3 combos. Its hard now since they only 9 seconds does not give time to experiment. Not to mention landing a hit withing 9 seconds on a opponent is not easy.

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i wonder if there will be potential teeth resets. something like j2, land, teeth, 3 or f.2 flower and because you land the flower stand reset sooner, the teeth will subsequently land later, giving a chance to mix it up with b.2 or b.1,3 or crowbar/MB f3

just talking out of my ass but who knows. jump arc is pretty ridiculous at level 3. if you play ssf4, it reminds me of Gen's jump. instant jumping overheads might be viable against crouching characters with neutral j2 instead of just j1

 

[lorenzo]

I have tons of setups and tech for the character that people don't know yet. I only know one HAHAHA combo since is difficult to practice them right now, since the ha only last 9 seconds. I can't wait for that buff. Oh most people don't know, but you can parry scorpion trait. So if they go from a string into trait, you can parry it and nullify it.

 

[insomnia_ftw]

so if we use parry as an Oki then that covers all possible options. if they are blocking expecting meaty attacks, they won't be ready to punish a whiffed parry IMO, not when they're looking for crossups/overheads/lows/throws etc.

Yeah that sounds awesome. Or if you parry their wakeup every time and train them to wait for the parry, you could start pressure again for free.
I guess it depends on how much people will end up respecting the parry?

 

[StevoSuprem0]

I still think there should only one level of HA buff that is somewhere between level 2 and level 3 for about 15 seconds to reward the parry. Getting that second one in a 9 second window seems pretty unlikely and level 1 HA is kinda nothing IMO...

 

[Vagrant]

Most interesting buff in this patch imo.

Be curious to see what you guys come up with.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Yeah that sounds awesome. Or if you parry their wakeup every time and train them to wait for the parry, you could start pressure again for free.
I guess it depends on how much people will end up respecting the parry?

Important to remember that it only works on physical wakeups as well (unless I'm wrong). For instance, not gonna work on Lantern's Might, but great against Deathstroke's Sword Flip and Batman's Slide. Right?

 

[laudanum09]

Of course, matchup specific. It should parry any physical attack aside from Lex.

I'm really excited about this +4 on the active frames. That's a lot to stack onto whatever we had before.

 

[insomnia_ftw]

What happens if teeth hit in the middle of a parry? If you get a knockdown and throw out teeth, they try to wakeup out and you parry it.. do they bounce the same and do you recover fast enough to follow up?
Never tried it before because fuuuuuuuck that risky business.

 

[lorenzo]

Teeth will not interrupt the parry.

 

[Cat]

Hard to compare active frames since frame data does not show it

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[Cat]

So HAs last 6 game seconds.. (different than the 9 seconds they say because game seconds are longer than a actual second)
so 2 HAs should last 12 seconds and 3 HAs should last 18 game seconds.. go parry and look at how long this last.. its quite a long time and gives you enough time to try and get in. with level 3 getting a jump in should not be a problem since its so fast and low...

 

[laudanum09]

Since my time zone is different, I'll be up and about when the patch should hit XBL.

Most of you guys will be asleep no doubt, but for those of you that are up, let us convene and swap findings.

Maybe we should really get to work and each choose a few characters to go through find and find all the gaps to fully update the parry thread or have a more frequent poster make a completely new one with updated findings.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

I don't think it's gonna make landing it off block any more possible (the active frames got improved, not the startup), so there shouldn't be any insane revolution beyond it being more land-able in general. What WILL be interesting is combo strings off various HA levels, although it probably won't open anything up til level 2-3 (it only helps with stuff involving jumping faster right?).

 

[lorenzo]

Oh and the same way you can parry scorpion trait, you can parry Zod trait. The only thing you can't parry is the throw.

 

[laudanum09]

I don't think it's gonna make landing it off block any more possible (the active frames got improved, not the startup), so there shouldn't be any insane revolution beyond it being more land-able in general. What WILL be interesting is combo strings off various HA levels, although it probably won't open anything up til level 2-3 (it only helps with stuff involving jumping faster right?).

I know, extra active frames won't help a tight parry window. Even 1 frame parry won't help a just frame window. Motion parrying GL's B1, 3 is still just as hard as having a single button.

I just meant that the thread is old and made using Batman and KF's reversal parry, which will just frame parry stuff that will be impossible to practically parry in a match. Now the patch is up and HAs are pretty good at level 2 and 3, we should mess around with it more and get a more comprehensive list going.

 

[Dr Jackal]

To ne honest I have lot of doubt regarding the patch for Joker... The real problem was not the duration.
My fist tests are not really good, its Still really hard To use it :S I didnt have lot of Time to test it btw.

Hope my first impression was wrong

 

[insomnia_ftw]

It's definitely easier to parry scorpion's teleport now, as long as you can react by the time you see him puff.
Setting scorp to wakeup teleport is an easy way to train yourself at it and get HA's quickly to practice those combos.

 

[laudanum09]

Obviously parrying through strings is not any easier but parrying other things like B3/F3 has become extremely easy with the + active frames. Like insomnia_ftw said, there's more leniency so parrying stuff like that should become much easier.

You can do some setups too now that it's not too tight. For example, 212 gun cancel dash forward against KF and then whiff a d1 and press parry. You'll be far enough for her to punish it if she doesn't slide, but if she wake up slides you'll nail it. I'm sure this timing works for batman. F.2, 1, whiff d1, parry to counter Flash and Shazam's psycho crusher.

One question is, can we parry wakeup moves point blank that have invincibility frames? I can't parry KF's slide point blank and I don't think it's my timing.

 

[Dr Jackal]

Hi, I am in france so I can't test in the same time than you ^___^
So my dear laudanum09, the dash should be fixed, the 212gun cancel dash + pressure works right now ????? It's a fucking good news if yes.

I am not sure I get what you said here mate :

F.2, 1, whiff d1, parry to counter Flash and Shazam's psycho crusher.

can we parry wakeup moves point blank that have invincibility frames?

Hmmm I don't think so ... 99% sure.

 

[laudanum09]

Dr Jackal

I'll try to be more clear. You can time your parry this way.

Example:

set Killer Frost to wakeup Slide (black ice)
Do 212, gun, dash cancel forward
after your dash, press down 1
after your down 1, press down parry

You will parry the wakeup slide without having to time it against the slide, but by using the dash and down 1 as your timing. It's just a trick to time a parry against Killer Frost's wakeup slide. You will be safe too if she does not slide because of the spacing. You don't need to do this if you have the reaction, but I like stuff like this because you have reliable timing tricks you can use.


Also, 212 gun dash cancel forward is a frame trap on block, completely safe. You can push buttons after dashing forward and will win so long as you don't use stuff that's too slow.