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Joker is bad..........against zoners?

Been using joker since he got released (i was using Mad man but then changed to ace of knaves almost 1 month ago).

Gotta say joker is very powerful in terms of 'mid range' and pressure game but when i encounter some "spammable proyectile" character like sonya, liu kang or skarlet, it feels like shit, i tried to use Jack in the box but the timing feels so tight, most of the cases i end up eating the proyectiles and my opponets gets to block the box...for being considered a "top tier" character i feel it pretty bad in this kind of MU.

Any advice or should i change character when this happen? (FT3 or even KL)
 

dungeonsector

AI Fighter
I would say one of the most powerful things about joker is his movement, if you get his wavedash down you can close in on someone zoning you extremely fast. A really good example of this is sonic in final kombat against ninjakilla, watch how fast he closes the gap when ninjakilla tries to zone with liu kang.
 
if you watch closely, he tried to zone him out like 3 or 4 times on the grand finals but you can see thats not ninja's playstyle, specially with liu kang, who excels at close range, when he threw like 3 or 4 fireballs then confronts sonic, not like the "KL douchebags" that literally sits behind the bush and spam proyectiles...but i guess wave dash its the best solution for this kind of MU
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Can't you just throw out that clown head that lets you dash in behind it and is like +3000 on block?
It depends, when your opponent is zoning you have to take the trade Most likely but when you‘re able to properly wavedash you can close the distance.

the thing with amp bf4 is that it actually has a set timer to disappear instead of collusion with your opponent/ the wall so when you‘re trying to get it while it‘s onscreen your opponent can outrun it if he isn‘t too close to the wall.

though if your opponent doesn‘t know this you can try to get a knockdown from your projectile, set up amp bf4 and wavedash your way in. With AoK your not going to win the zoning wars so you have to be patient and smart about your approach at some point.
 
Been using joker since he got released (i was using Mad man but then changed to ace of knaves almost 1 month ago).

Gotta say joker is very powerful in terms of 'mid range' and pressure game but when i encounter some "spammable proyectile" character like sonya, liu kang or skarlet, it feels like shit, i tried to use Jack in the box but the timing feels so tight, most of the cases i end up eating the proyectiles and my opponets gets to block the box...for being considered a "top tier" character i feel it pretty bad in this kind of MU.

Any advice or should i change character when this happen? (FT3 or even KL)
I dont know you man, but, people that said that to me until now are just impatient or bad against zoners.
Not every character is Cetrion, who is everything in one character. Even Liu kang (which is my main) being crazy good as he is....at mid range he has some problems....but the rest is absurd.

Try to be patient and flawless block the projectiles. once you get the mid range, is a poker game in your favor, when if you get hit you are rewarded with lots of damage and pressure, but if they block you lose nothing.
 

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers
You play his first variation and mix the shit out of them or amp low bat against most zoners. Agaisnt kitana and kang you can style ND short amp low for easy dubs
 
the thing with amp bf4 is that it actually has a set timer to disappear instead of collusion with your opponent/ the wall so when you‘re trying to get it while it‘s onscreen your opponent can outrun it if he isn‘t too close to the wall.
sorry but, what do you mean with this?

I dont know you man, but, people that said that to me until now are just impatient or bad against zoners.
Not every character is Cetrion, who is everything in one character. Even Liu kang (which is my main) being crazy good as he is....at mid range he has some problems....but the rest is absurd.

Try to be patient and flawless block the projectiles. once you get the mid range, is a poker game in your favor, when if you get hit you are rewarded with lots of damage and pressure, but if they block you lose nothing.
i guess its impatient, because i use geras and kabal and they feel very differente against zoners, its just very overwhelming not having something consistent against that with joker and rely on a "global mechanic"

You play his first variation and mix the shit out of them or amp low bat against most zoners. Agaisnt kitana and kang you can style ND short amp low for easy dubs
against low proyectiles its not that good xD
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
I'm not sure how it plays out at top level play, but I can say I've seen impatience kill of a fair number of Joker players.

His f2 is almost too good for their own good. For a lot of players they just see how they can do f2 from a mile away and convert into whatever. The temptation to build and entire game plan around that one move is pretty strong and exactly what a lot of players did initially.

They end up trying to get in as fast as possible so they can toss out f2. Layer two added the occasional d4 and mixing in the mid, to prevent low counter pokes. When that doesn't work, half of the time someone just tries even harder to get it faster. Que the jump ins.

You can't really keep people out in this game without burning meter and maybe running away. Take advantage of that. Don't be in a hurry to get in, be ready to party when you get there. Keep an eye on their meter and don't do anything significant but walk forward. Force them to walk away and spend meter. When they spend all their attack meter you know you can take more risks. It really doesn't talk that long to get someone to spend themselves out while walking themselves into a corner. Let them put themselves into that situation then worry about getting in.

If you are already doing that then I personally don't have much else to offer. I can say from the other side of the equation, it can be very annoying tying to keep him off you. Once he gets closer than full screen it becomes increasingly scary to toss stuff out but I'm sure going to try. I'm not letting that yahoo anywhere near me if I can help it. It can be super annoying for both players trying to deny what the other wants.
 

ADAMSKi

Noob
Yeah he's awful vs zoners.

Also as a side note, everyone knows how to block his strings.. just block high.
The low string is very weak and doesn't combo into anything meaningful.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Yeah he's awful vs zoners.

Also as a side note, everyone knows how to block his strings.. just block high.
The low string is very weak and doesn't combo into anything meaningful.
It does combo into jumping jester though midscreen for 26% and in the corner for 34% if I remember correctly
 
I mean this
Wow, didnt know that lol thx!

Some characters like cetrion or skarlet doesnt need to spend a bar for a good proyectile pressure but i guess you are right, be more patient and wait for that meter burn

Yeah he's awful vs zoners.

Also as a side note, everyone knows how to block his strings.. just block high.
The low string is very weak and doesn't combo into anything meaningful.
Too bad he has a downside like that while being a"top tier"

It does combo into jumping jester though midscreen for 26% and in the corner for 34% if I remember correctly
The thing is, its very hard to pull that off when they are zoning the shit out of you lol
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
I usually do well with Jade vs Joker's but Joker is imo broke up close, his B1 I think the move with the fire cards is SOO busted imo, comes out beyond stupid fast like this shit always hits me no matter how fast my moves are. So mid to far sure he may be weaker vs good zoners but his walk speed is faster than a lot I've noticed so I don't feel bad for Jokers tbh, that prick has range with his cane and has fast walk/dash speed.
 

MK9

Noob
I get the hate mail galore when I use jade vs him, sorry but if you can’t get near me, I don’t have to deal with your damage. Same goes for spawn.
 
I usually do well with Jade vs Joker's but Joker is imo broke up close, his B1 I think the move with the fire cards is SOO busted imo, comes out beyond stupid fast like this shit always hits me no matter how fast my moves are. So mid to far sure he may be weaker vs good zoners but his walk speed is faster than a lot I've noticed so I don't feel bad for Jokers tbh, that prick has range with his cane and has fast walk/dash speed.
it all comes down to a 'global mechanic' like wavedashing i guess, his hitbox is very high IMO but i guess you are right lol

I get the hate mail galore when I use jade vs him, sorry but if you can’t get near me, I don’t have to deal with your damage. Same goes for spawn.
would like to play against that, gotta practice this kind of MU.

His wave dash is one of the best and I think hes a top 5 character for sure.
yes, gotta practice this freaking wave dash under pressure lol
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
it all comes down to a 'global mechanic' like wavedashing i guess, his hitbox is very high IMO but i guess you are right lol
Yeah, the key is to keep him far as far away as possible since his walk speed and of course dash cancelling/wave dashing speed is among the best in the game if not the best. I like using jade vs him. If he gets in he's tough to deal with it for sure.
 
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Been using joker since he got released (i was using Mad man but then changed to ace of knaves almost 1 month ago).

Gotta say joker is very powerful in terms of 'mid range' and pressure game but when i encounter some "spammable proyectile" character like sonya, liu kang or skarlet, it feels like shit, i tried to use Jack in the box but the timing feels so tight, most of the cases i end up eating the proyectiles and my opponets gets to block the box...for being considered a "top tier" character i feel it pretty bad in this kind of MU.

Any advice or should i change character when this happen? (FT3 or even KL)
Flawless block.
 
My biggest problem with overcoming zoners as Joker is sometimes when I dash in my dash gets interrupted by a low projectile or random dash attack. I feel like it's safest to short hop/duck/FB when optimal and during the zoners recovery just walk in
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
sounds like sonicfox lol (he was being sarcastic when saying flawless block was the best tool for zoning)
He was right though but it specifically for the liu kang mu otherwise Joker has to eat a lot of chip because of low fireballs

Full to midscreen you can react to the fireballs to flawless block them but outside of it good luck with that. Still, the best thing to do is not to rush and be patient, as long as you can duck most projectiles you won‘t get chipped to death
 
I'm still struggling with this. Especially against jade and cetrion.

But I'm starting to improve, against cetrion if you read a Boulder after blocking one you can bf1 batsy pew pew and win the trade, use knockdown to get in.
Also generally I wait to block a projectile for a reversal (db4 can work in this cases sometimes due to reversal frame on your part and recovery on his).

Beside that using db1 amp and if they respect it move forward else wait for impact.
And of course bf4 amp.

When you do get the chances to close in wave dash is key.

Also remember you only need to be at dash-2/2 distance most of the times, so less ground to cover.

So yeah I guess there are more stuff that are match dependent and for me to get down wave dashing properly.