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Joker 1.03 Patch Thoughts (from a actual joker player)

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
Alright. It's time for me to give my thoughts on the latest patch.
EDIT: Parry Buff POLL!!! go VOTE!!!
http://testyourmight.com/threads/joker-community-trait-buff-suggestions-to-nrs.33105/

PLEASE NOTE:
•I actually Main Joker, and use him in a regular basis!, I did not just go to training saw 1 hit confirm combo and thought it was major buff*

•Not to discredit other players Opinions, but having someone who knows not so much about a character give a opinion can lead to unneeded Nerfs/Buffs or none at all

• it's like having a non death stroke player say he is cheap and guns are too safe (oops. Too late. ) and have it get nerf cus of it. Or non aquamans talk about how his scoop needs less push block to make it more punishable. You get the idea.

Tired of people saying how viable he is, when they don't even touch the char , they probably get hit by a escapable teeth reset and think he's good.

Anyways moving on

HIS HIT CONFIRMS

• he already had a hit confirm strings
F23
11
All hit confirm into low gas tank ,although didn't work on the big characters like Grundy, lex, bane, etc

This is why they buffed the tank to make it connect.

•New hit confirms
21 low tank
32 low tank

This have him 2 more strings to hit confirm, which is pretty nice since they are easier to confirm than the previous and are actually his best strings.

Although, I don't see this as a huge buff, more of a fix* since mostly every char can hit confirm into damaging combos (looks at superman) so adding this just made joker to how he should have been on release.

21 is a great string, but the 1 tends to whiff on some chars low blocking
This includes:

Aquaman
Wonder Woman
Hawkgirl
Green latern
Lobo

This makes the string less useful on said chars.

The same happens with f23 and some chars.

•THE TRAIT

Still ass cheeks.
2 percent more on standing parry (batman still gets more, Killer frost gets a combo with mb)

3 more seconds of the HA buff (if you can call it that) is still useless for the risk you have to take to get it.

•The level 1 HA is practically the same. And your opponent is not gonna fear you for 9 seconds cus you move a lil faster.

Instead of fixing the trait completely they figured lets add 2 percent more damage and let his useless HA last 3 seconds more. Lol what a joke of a trait.

The buff on gas tanks were nice and necessary ( they were useless by themselves. Coming out so slow your opponent can go take a piss and come back and punish you before the tank left jokers hands)

How many joker players out there have used the non rolling gas tank in a match on purpose?

Overall. I feel like the chars needs more tweaks besides his trait to be TOURNAMENT viable (not online scrub viable)

•You will not see a joker winning a tournament (or making top 8) at a major with him only! (Not even myself)

•OVERALL THOUGHTS ON PATCH

- low tank fix was great, way easy to hit confirm now and semi useful tanks on their own.

- trait still useless, the overall concept of it needs to be scratched to be honest.

•NEEDS FIXING

212 needs to not whiff on certain characters ( they are mids for god sake) the 1 whiffs on some. And the last 2 whiffs on many. ( ill list it below)

Trait: so many things can be done. I guess the team didn't have a idea on what his trait should be so just threw In a parry (his parry in mkvsdc is even better )

•Best buff imo, without making it stupid good -
the HAs stack, you get a parry you get a HA and it does not automatically activate the speed boost. You can try getting another parry and have 2 HA or even 3 HAs stacked (3 being the max of course).
Now , you can activate the speed boost HAs when you want by either by double tapping trait (shouldn't mess with trying to parry since you shouldn't be mashing it) or a button+trait.

The timer will then start and your speed boost will be activated. This will help him set up teeth set ups. Or get bigger combos maybe.
It's not too overpowered because you HAVE to make the risk to get the Parry on people.

- or able to parry trait granting him his HA.

Another suggestion is for the trait to give him the ability to MB a teeth to make it unblockable (so have to earn a parry + use a bar for the mb teeth) or able to mb flower that stuns opponents granting a b3 combo.

Joker is awesome character that is very popular and needs to be seen in tournaments! He plays a big role in the story , yet in gameplay lacks in many areas.

Anyways. Your thoughts?

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1369235549.801703.jpg
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Good stuff Cat.

I basically the only thing I took away from the patch for Joker (I play him and Lobo pretty heavily {fuck me, right?}) was that you can now extend the beginning of his 3 RLG MB start-up into 32 RLG MB for some added hit confirm, which only added 1% to the combo in the end. Which is the other new hit confirm string? And are there any new higher damage strings that have opened up that you've found? Or is it just the new confirms that lead to an added 1-2% here and there and ease in confirming?

Also, I was thinking the best way to buff his trait would be to remove the stacking entirely and just give him that max boost after a parry. I feel like that doesn't break it because it's tough to pull off and you REALLY need to know your matchups, but I could be wrong- I've never had full stacks in a fight and dunno how it actually plays lol.

Since Lobo still has alot of problems, I'll probably be maining Joker; love the mix-up and style.
 

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
Good stuff Cat.

I basically the only thing I took away from the patch for Joker (I play him and Lobo pretty heavily {fuck me, right?}) was that you can now extend the beginning of his 3 RLG MB start-up into 32 RLG MB for some added hit confirm, which only added 1% to the combo in the end. Which is the other new hit confirm string? And are there any new higher damage strings that have opened up that you've found? Or is it just the new confirms that lead to an added 1-2% here and there and ease in confirming?

Also, I was thinking the best way to buff his trait would be to remove the stacking entirely and just give him that max boost after a parry. I feel like that doesn't break it because it's tough to pull off and you REALLY need to know your matchups, but I could be wrong- I've never had full stacks in a fight and dunno how it actually plays lol.

Since Lobo still has alot of problems, I'll probably be maining Joker; love the mix-up and style.
Oh added to the opening post.

His new ones are 21 and 32.
You get more damage off 32 if you wait for the 3rd hit then do low gas tank.
Both 21 and 32 are 3 hit strings which is why it's so easy to hit confirm now. On 21 you have to wait on the 3rd hit to combo.
Here's a updated combo video of the new strings.

And yeah that would be good but I already see ppl would bitch about it. Go to training and get level 3 an see how crazy his jumps 3 and 2s are. Lol.
 

DGOD PSYCHO

#YOLOSWAGMUFFIN
I agree. I play an excellent joker player ALL the time.
MLO Battousai is his name. His joker is on crack, but still. I'm with you on this one.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Oh added to the opening post.

His new ones are 21 and 32.
You get more damage off 32 if you wait for the 3rd hit then do low gas tank.
Both 21 and 32 are 3 hit strings which is why it's so easy to hit confirm now. On 21 you have to wait on the 3rd hit to combo.
Here's a updated combo video of the new strings.

And yeah that would be good but I already see ppl would bitch about it. Go to training and get level 3 an see how crazy his jumps 3 and 2s are. Lol.
Word. You posting those casuals here or separate thread?
 

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
I agree. I play an excellent joker player ALL the time.
MLO Battousai is his name. His joker is on crack, but still. I'm with you on this one.
That's awesome. Once you know how to fight joker , you can understand he is not a big threat like other characters. His trait never comes to mind as you fight him because even if he gets it on you, it's not gonna change the tide of the match at all
 

DGOD PSYCHO

#YOLOSWAGMUFFIN
That's awesome. Once you know how to fight joker , you can understand he is not a big threat like other characters. His trait never comes to mind as you fight him because even if he gets it on you, it's not gonna change the tide of the match at all
Mhmm.. Its a 5-5 flash match up. for joker and flash imo, and flash is B tier.
Green Lantern has a little edge over joker in this match up.
even patched up DS, is a problem.
I can use all of my mains vs joker, and as long as i out play joker, theres nothing for him to do. I support you on this subject.
 

laudanum09

Darling
Thanks Cat for your input.

Nice to get constructive criticism rather than just shittalking or ignorant hyping.

Maybe turn this into an official 'Joker buffs' thread so it gets some more traffic and attention as well as being something NRS might actually scout. I know you and others were probably hesitant to get blacklisted as Vanilla QQers and didn't want to cry about stuff but we kind of need to if we want our voice and opinions to be heard and implemented by NRS

On buffs:

-For parry, they need to rework the entire thing which is unlikely.

-If not and they keep the parry the same buff the Has: make them work like you suggested.

-If they keep the Has and buff the parry: Have parry work like Aquaman's water shield. You still need to know all your matchups, but now we can just hold down parry to punish a string or use it to bait stuff. It should universally parry high/lows/mids without direction changes. Then it's possible to get Has and have them become a part of his overall play without taking a huge risk.

-Give him the ability to get damage off b1 by letting Low gas cancel into it. It's not hit confirmable and we have to spend a bar just to be safe.

-Make his f.2 an overhead

-Make his mids actually hit as mids universally, this is just derp and bad/lazy game design the way it is now
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
*It's really hard to read your post.

*Mainly because you are trying to make points by using asteriks' as bulletpoints when there was no need.

*You were putting pieces of one point in seperate parts.

*So I stopped reading.

*Joker is almost viable, but not really there yet.
 

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
*It's really hard to read your post.

*Mainly because you are trying to make points by using asteriks' as bulletpoints when there was no need.

*You were putting pieces of one point in seperate parts.

*So I stopped reading.

*Joker is almost viable, but not really there yet.
Sorry if my online forum thread post is aesthetically pleasing.

I did the thread on my phone cus I'm at work. So can't really format it. To my like.
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
Sorry if my online forum thread post is aesthetically pleasing.
I'm just giving you a hard time. I read the post and all and I agree. A lot of people don't understand the holes in the character's game, so he is instantly good. You always have to listen to both sides of the story.
 

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
I'm just giving you a hard time. I read the post and all and I agree. A lot of people don't understand the holes in the character's game, so he is instantly good. You always have to listen to both sides of the story.
Changed to bullet points. Is that better? Lol
 

laudanum09

Darling
f2, 1

it's a good string, but still there's no reason to do anything but block high since b1,3 is more annoying than scary.

Also, shoutouts to how awful b2 is? 20 something startup frame overhead that leads to nothing and knocks away to full screen. lol
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
f2, 1

it's a good string, but still there's no reason to do anything but block high since b1,3 is more annoying than scary.

Also, shoutouts to how awful b2 is? 20 something startup frame overhead that leads to nothing and knocks away to full screen. lol
I actually kinda like b2. It's something I use very rarely against people that generally catches them off guard, and there are some characters you wanna create space with at times. So I think it is a nice tool to have. Could be faster, but there are plenty of fast moves elsewhere.
 
The suggestion of making the HAs manually activated is a good idea. But i wanna add a little something.

Add a parry against jumping attacks, special moves like Black Adam "foot dive" and similar. The timing is already very strict but makes his trait more threatening compared to Bats/KF, has another anti-air besides d2, and basically gives him more control against pressure. Obviusly this could mean that the HAs and/or the damage might get nerfed since Joker becomes harder to hit.

Another option is to add a "wager" parry. Meter burning so can parry in the middle of a combo. The meter cost could be higher than a normal Meter Burn though (2-3 stocks maybe?). As alternative, the HAs might work as the cost, but doesn't give a HA if it connects.
 

SunLord5

Dualshock 2 User
MBing the teeth for an unblockable when trait is up is a good idea. It's balanced because if you make a read with parry you are playing very good and deserve a big combo. If they used an unsafe string or special and you parry it that is great. 25-30% parry damage would be as good as having the reset. Even better because the damage is up front.

Ya that stuff of whiffs on 212, 21, and possibly the worst b2 is awful lol.