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Johnny Cage must not be normalized.

Should Johnny Cage be normalized?

  • Yes, but only Show Stopper.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    100

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
So many individuals in the community are demanding that Johnny Cage be normalized after two dominating performances by Sonic Fox at ECT and Ninja Killer at NEC. The following are my arguments in favor of allowing the character to remain the same for the time being.

- According to Eventhubs, only Sonic Fox and Kombat used Johnny Cage at ECT and only Ninja Killer and Kombat used him in the top 8 at NEC.

- Most of the game's top tier characters shove 9-11 mid strings down their opponent's throat while Johnny Cage primarily plays a footsies and zoning game, which is something different to watch.

- Johnny Cage does well versus some of the top tier characters whom players dislike fighting and watching such as Cetrion, Geras, and Jacqui.

- Outtake is NRS's repentance for the whiffing forceballs in Show Stopper.

What do you guys think? Vote in the poll and comment in this thread.
 
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REYTHEGREAT

..........................
As much as i hate fighting against JC, i do believe he is good as is. The only thing i would change in Outtake is his projectiles but overall, he has superb footies.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I don't think a slight adjustment of Outtakes projectiles would dimish any of the other positives that you mention about his gameplay. So that's the option I chose.
 

Orochi

Scorpion Scrub
Premium Supporter
I don't think so, it seems like the situation is that cage is a counter pick vs some characters. We saw Sonic switch vs Dragon's Kitana. I'd give it more time at least until the pro thing is done and we see what the results are. I wonder what Sonic will counter Ninja's cage with if they meet and he's serious about winning.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
I don't think a slight adjustment of Outtakes projectiles would dimish any of the other positives that you mention about his gameplay. So that's the option I chose.
I would accept and support a couple of increased start up frames on the projectiles, which would be a fair change.

The question is, how does Sonic Fox beat Johnny Cage at the highest level without resorting to the mirror? I am certain he can, but if he must mirror Ninja Killer to win, perhaps Cage needs additional changes, but there has not been adequate time to jump to this conclusion.
 

Arqwart

Lean, mean, and +14
As much as i hate fighting against JC, i do believe he is good as is. The only thing i would change in Outtake is his projectiles but overall, he has superb footies.
100% this. Johnny plays MK11 pretty well, but so do many others in the game. Toning down his arcing forceballs just a little bit would help alleviate some of the obnoxious power in Outtake.

I'd also give amp'd Rising Star the Cassie treatment in letting it be flawless blocked
 

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
Outtake's zoning is too nuts. Leave Show Stopper as is.

As for who can challenge Johnny at the highest level - Semiij showcased it very well with Digital Soldier Cassie. She handles both variations very well. Dragon showed Kitana can do very well. I do think Kollector can contest him quite well despite the Grand Final results. Ninja Killa struggled against another Kollector (cant remember the name).

Nerf startup and recovery on mid forceballs and give Rising Star the Cassie treatment. The problem is, against males where everything hits and works as it should - Johnny becomes this Cetrion-like powerhouse with no apprent weakness and with better block strings. Against the characters I mentioned before - this is less the case (even less for his other variations).
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
The question is, how does Sonic Fox beat Johnny Cage at the highest level without resorting to the mirror? I am certain he can, but if he must mirror Ninja Killer to win, perhaps Cage needs additional changes, but there has not been adequate time to jump to this conclusion.
I'm guessing he'd just move to a character like Cassie, if he's using his usual arsenal. She is still one of the best footsie characters in the game, and she can at least keep him semi-honest in the zoning.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
If by normalized it means

FIXING THE FREAKIN 1,2 and FB HITBOXES TO NOT WHIFF AGAINST HALF THE CAST ON CROUCH BLOCK

AND normalizing his QQ tools (fireballs rising shoulder unbreakable damage plus frames)

Sure.

Anyone who wants only the second part, is an idiot.
 

DarksydeDash

With my best, I will defeat your best.
Let Johnny rock for now.

We have Terminator basically legal now and Sonic thinks he's really good, followed by Sindel very soon.
 

Darth Mao

Your Tech is Mine! Bring MK9 Shang. #RaidenForKP2
If by normalized it means

FIXING THE FREAKIN 1,2 and FB HITBOXES TO NOT WHIFF AGAINST HALF THE CAST ON CROUCH BLOCK

AND normalizing his QQ tools (fireballs rising shoulder unbreakable damage plus frames)

Sure.

Anyone who wants only the second part, is an idiot.
It includes normalize his hurtbox too?
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
...and give Rising Star the Cassie treatment.
I vehemently disagree with this suggestion. I dislike the change to Cassie's up glow kick too. I think the amplified up glow kick should have remained gap-less while the side switching should have been removed and the push back on block should have been nonexistent. If you watch Semiij play Cassie now days, he almost never uses the amplified up glow kick outside of combos. So the move turned from one of the best special moves in the game to a move that has limited use, especially because you expect to be safe when you spend meter. In my opinion, this balance decision is wrong, and I would not want the same treatment to any amplified special move, including rising star.

What about Jock.
Nobody uses that variation so I assume it is one of the many worthless variations in the game. Why use Shock Jock when Show Stopper and Outtake are top tier variations?

Out of everyone and I mean everyone in this game to complain about Johnny cage ain't it. If you don't have to proper fundamentals to do well with johnny it will show and A character like this should be rewarded for it.
I agree. I play Johnny too and I can play a basic zoning game, but obviously my fundamentals are not in the same universe as Ninja Killer's or Rewind's so I cannot win. LOL. The point is that the character does not appear to be a scrubby zoning character like pre-patch Deathstroke was in Injustice 1 or Deadshot in Injustice 2.

does any other character have 50% unbreakable damage honest question
No, but the game has the reputation of being "bland" and "boring" because the meta revolves around low pokes, fast mid strings, and throws for the majority of characters. While Johnny has very good low pokes, he neither has fast mid strings nor throws that kill you. He plays different from a lot of the other top tier characters, which is a good thing and the primary reason why I created this thread. I have no hidden agenda as I am definitely not showing up to tournaments and winning with Outtake. LOL.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
Which is the one where he doesn't let you move in the corner with cancels again? Been a while since I've run into a Cage player tbh now that NK won with him I'm sure we'll see more in next season of KL.