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Match-Up Discussion - Jax Jax Vs Grandmaster 10-10-16 Hotfix

Matix218

Get over here!
He has 0 good ways of dealing with klone. Rocket in heavy weapons will trade with ice ball so he can't deal with it that way. SMG in HW wont do it either. Blast wont do it because it'll trade with ice all every time. You can react to ground pound and instant air ground pound and that also trades with ice ball. He can't armor through the clone now unless he wants to eat a full combo or get armor broke (Knee is a complete joke don't use that as an argument to answer Klone) Sub Zero now has even better buttons which gives Jax a hard time even more so. Jax cant keep Subby down nearly as easily anymore (double armor slide and such) so basically what we have is Jax literally not being able to start any offense at all and therefore he's not playing the game. If a matchup that makes it so you're not playing the game isn't a 9-1 I'm not sure what is.
I agree it's bad but by your above description you are acting like the clone is active 100% of the time. The clone still has a fixed duration and a cool down meaning you can still potentially find a way in (between clones or timing things when the clone is about to disappear). If nothing changes the likelihood of a jax beating a sub is low but until I'm proven wrong I will not just label it a 9-1 based on looking at the tools on paper.
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
This is to show how clueless people are.

You do realise that ALL CHARACTERS WITHOUT METER have the exact same problem you are having now?
You use your bars for 3 x 12%, and EVERY SINGLE CHAR except 2-3 exceptions feel like all of you are feeling desperate now.

Can't you people see it's a Grandmaster problem, not a Jax problem?

It's obvious even for a 2 year old. NERF that pos into the ground already ffs.
It's not about the corner. We all know that's stupid. Midscreen is where Dash Punch can count, against zoners as well
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
Technically speaking, if someone was super on point with their ia gp's, wouldn't Pumped Up be able to deal with Grandmaster at least somewhat? I could be totally wrong which is why I'm literally just asking, but on paper I'd think that tool could potentially help, no?
Ice ball trades aren't in Jax's favor
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
This is to show how clueless people are.

You do realise that ALL CHARACTERS WITHOUT METER have the exact same problem you are having now?
You use your bars for 3 x 12%, and EVERY SINGLE CHAR except 2-3 exceptions feel like all of you are feeling desperate now.

Can't you people see it's a Grandmaster problem, not a Jax problem?

It's obvious even for a 2 year old. NERF that pos into the ground already ffs.
Kenshi, Tremor, Takeda, Jacqui, Ermac, D'Vorah, Predator, Mileena, Buzzsaw Lao, Scorpion, Kung Jin, Tanya, Shinnok, Ferra/Torr, Raiden, maybe more can fight Sub without meter. Some of these characters likely beat Grandmaster. Grandmaster is a top tier character, but that's just what top tier characters do in any game. He isn't doing anything broken.
 

Vick

Noob
Kenshi, Tremor, Takeda, Jacqui, Ermac, D'Vorah, Predator, Mileena, Buzzsaw Lao, Scorpion, Kung Jin, Tanya, Shinnok, Ferra/Torr, Raiden, maybe more can fight Sub without meter. Some of these characters likely beat Grandmaster. Grandmaster is a top tier character, but that's just what top tier characters do in any game. He isn't doing anything broken.
Jax vs Grandmaster is broke.
 

LaidbackOne

Scrubby nice guy
Kenshi, Tremor, Takeda, Jacqui, Ermac, D'Vorah, Predator, Mileena, Buzzsaw Lao, Scorpion, Kung Jin, Tanya, Shinnok, Ferra/Torr, Raiden, maybe more can fight Sub without meter. Some of these characters likely beat Grandmaster. Grandmaster is a top tier character, but that's just what top tier characters do in any game. He isn't doing anything broken.
His corner game is uber retarded / broken / dumb. Not flaming, just stating a fact.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
I dont play Jax tbh. Also, this is just as bad as telling Sub players to not play him against Alien or one of the few other characters he got destroyed against before this patch. I agree that its best solution but....... No loyalist wants to hear that.
I hear you but this is literally 1 matchup we are talking about. It's not like the whole cast is running train on Jax. There are matchups in every fighting game that are bad and in an ideal world they will always be able to be won if you put in enough work with your character but in a game with character toolsets as varied as mk you are bound to find your character has at least 1 terrible matchup. Likely nrs is going to change something in a future hotfix to address this anyway but these jax players complaining about 1 matchup out of 33 characters each with 3 variations is ridiculous. You can still be a loyalist and just have 1 side character to counter gm sub.
 

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
If you armored with straight Dash Punch you weren't allowed to use meterless overhead Dash Punch unless you spent a bar
I'm not sure I understand. So say Jax started the game with ex dash fist, he wouldn't be able to do meterless oh dash punch for the rest of the match?
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I hear you but this is literally 1 matchup we are talking about. It's not like the whole cast is running train on Jax. There are matchups in every fighting game that are bad and in an ideal world they will always be able to be won if you put in enough work with your character but in a game with character toolsets as varied as mk you are bound to find your character has at least 1 terrible matchup. Likely nrs is going to change something in a future hotfix to address this anyway but these jax players complaining about 1 matchup out of 33 characters each with 3 variations is ridiculous. You can still be a loyalist and just have 1 side character to counter gm sub.
Agreed 100%
To build off of this a bit, MKXL has exactly 100 different playstyles that can be used. It is virtually impossible for something so polarizing not to have some fucked up matchups. This is simply one of the costs of variety.
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
I'm not sure I understand. So say Jax started the game with ex dash fist, he wouldn't be able to do meterless oh dash punch for the rest of the match?
Unless he spent a bar to do so yes. Idk if the bug was just from armoring gaps or in general. I didn't bother to continue looking into it cuz it was dumb and I'm not using Jax anymore lol
 

Matix218

Get over here!
This has to be like the first 9-1 first of all and 2 it's not JUST this mu. All zoners wreck his shit now. No chance
Stop acting like any character that has a fireball automatically wrecks Jax now. This thread is prime proof of how over reliant we (nrs players) have become on armor in general. I agree that gm sub wrecks Jax (maybe not 9-1 but it's definitely bad) but now any character/variation that can zone at all completely wrecks him too? "No chance"? Really?!
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Midscreen, Heavy Weapons Jax SMG does okay vs clone. Ice ball start up is slow in comparison, there's no trade to he had unless the Jax player is slow to react. Input as a reversal for strings cancelled into clone, or on reaction in the neutral. If SZ burns the bar, f4 xx mb clone is his most dangerous cancel at +10f. Just try to block the mix up, he had to spend a bar for it. Now clone is down for 6 seconds and HW pressure has as good a chance opening SZ up as any character.

In the corner... I mean taking the armor from mb Dash Fist is shitty in this position, no doubt. I guess most places you could punish a clone cancel with dash fist for a bar, you might be able to use SMG for free. On wake-up, any GM player who knew the new MU would try and d4 Jax to low profile the wake-up Dash Fist and whiff punish it (Kinda cut out the middle man on that one). The best time to use armor would be on reaction to SZ moving at all. Yolo knee boyz.
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
Stop acting like any character that has a fireball automatically wrecks Jax now. This thread is prime proof of how over reliant we (nrs players) have become on armor in general. I agree that gm sub wrecks Jax (maybe not 9-1 but it's definitely bad) but now any character/variation that can zone at all completely wrecks him too? "No chance"? Really?!
Did i say anyone with a fireball?? Noooo lmao. Shinnok hqt and gm for sure wreck him