Jailing 50/50 setup off 113 trait cancel midscreen and corner concept

[ienjoywinning]

Try getting it to work on superman so we're working on a common character just to be sure, I might not be timing it right but I don't think I am.

When the crossup j2 jails, the dive kick misses when they don't block the j2. If you time it so that the dive kick will hit, the j2 will no longer jail, and you can dash out. There's a lot more weird stuff here, including the range at which you connect the 113. The opponent ducking the first hit of 113 is a real problem for this setup, if they duck either the first hit or the last hit, you get punished. This is all ignoring the fact that this needs to come off 113 in the first place.

Ducking the first hit of 113 messes with the corner setup too, but I think it still has value.

I think most people will keep blocking after 113 trait , If they're trying to back or forward dash you could b2 or ex divekick them still so I think there's still a mixup it's just that if we notice them starting to dash we can full combo them , condition them , then start using the mixup. I think it's better in the corner though , And I've been abusing the shit out of it and I I've had a big success rate with it so far( the corner one)

 

[wsj515]

I see what you mean about the divekick whiff issues , that sucks. I tested it on Batman and it seemed to be working on him though , also what messes up the setup when you block the first hit of 113 low ? Working fine for me , testing on ai is unreliable sometimes so maybe if you're up to it we can test this in online practice ?

Also in which way does it mess it up in the corner Because all you need to do in order for the far divekick to cross you up is to do a far divekick, It's not supposed to jail (because jailing makes it hit on the same side) , they shouldn't be able to do anything (Not even backdash) or poke only option is super and from what I tested some of them whiffed , on catwoman even if I jailed it it crossed up so it seems to be working fine unless you're talking about big body chars

Not sure why this happens but it seems if you block low for the first hit of 113 (its a high, so it whiffs) you lose a lot of advantage on the trait cancel. I have no idea how or why this happens, but check it out, it takes away sooo much of the advantage.

Imo too much can go wrong with the setup mid screen without the opponent even knowing what they're doing. Batman's j2 is so good for the opposite reason - both players have no idea what side he will land on but it doesn't make a difference to the batman because he'll just do a non-directional string into trait cancel into pressure, or the opponent will get crossed up and launched lol. There's just too much character dependent stuff, and even if you have it all in muscle memory, the other guy could arbitrarily block low for the first or last hit which causes you to lose a bar and/or get punished.

If the mid screen stuff works for you, go for it. The corner stuff will be better for my play style, as I like to play safe and slow footsies and punish mid screen, then go full PL once I get in the corner.

 

[ienjoywinning]

Not sure why this happens but it seems if you block low for the first hit of 113 (its a high, so it whiffs) you lose a lot of advantage on the trait cancel. I have no idea how or why this happens, but check it out, it takes away sooo much of the advantage.

Imo too much can go wrong with the setup mid screen without the opponent even knowing what they're doing. Batman's j2 is so good for the opposite reason - both players have no idea what side he will land on but it doesn't make a difference to the batman because he'll just do a non-directional string into trait cancel into pressure, or the opponent will get crossed up and launched lol. There's just too much character dependent stuff, and even if you have it all in muscle memory, the other guy could arbitrarily block low for the first or last hit which causes you to lose a bar and/or get punished.

If the mid screen stuff works for you, go for it. The corner stuff will be better for my play style, as I like to play safe and slow footsies and punish mid screen, then go full PL once I get in the corner.

I don't tend to use it alot mid screen anyways and that's seriously dumb that it takes so much + frames . Ill still go for it sometimes though against characters I know it would work against. Thanks alot for the help dude , I suck at labbing some of this so it only makes sense there's a way to stop it haha , I think it's safe to say that people won't realize how much frames are shoved off of 113 so we can abuse the hell out of this in the corner until people start catching up

 

[Invincible Salads]

so, how am i supposed to defend against this? pushblock?

 

[ienjoywinning]

so, how am i supposed to defend against this? pushblock?

When you block the first hit low you can shove some frames according to the guy above ( I don't have my ps4 atm) so if that's true then you can try poking or upercutting , another way is blocking low when he does the 3 but you have to do it on a read considering he also has 112 which the last hit of hits overhead. But if you block the 113 trait standing all the way then yeah your best option is probably pushblock or guess , when I crossup on certain chars like superman there's a small gap where you can dash when i do the j2 but I can easily blow you up by just doing b2 or instsnt divekick so yeah

 

[Invincible Salads]

When you block the first hit low you can shove some frames according to the guy above ( I don't have my ps4 atm) so if that's true then you can try poking or upercutting , another way is blocking low when he does the 3 but you have to do it on a read considering he also has 112 which the last hit of hits overhead. But if you block the 113 trait standing all the way then yeah your best option is probably pushblock or guess , when I crossup on certain chars like superman there's a small gap where you can dash when i do the j2 but I can easily blow you up by just doing b2 or instsnt divekick so yeah

i see, then yeah they should probably reduce the cancel advantage of 113 then, jailing into a jump in is pretty goofy.

 

[wsj515]

i see, then yeah they should probably reduce the cancel advantage of 113 then, jailing into a jump in is pretty goofy.

Not really, if you have read any of whats above its kind of a gimmick. Did you even read the post you are replying to? Its not like you can cancel into a string after the jailed j2, you need to commit to spending a bar on dive kick to be safe/launch, and even then can be punished. It's better in the corner but you have a lot of options against it.

 

[ienjoywinning]

i see, then yeah they should probably reduce the cancel advantage of 113 then, jailing into a jump in is pretty goofy.

The only thing adam needs is a nerf to his damage nothing else. I wouldn't go as far as calling it a gimmick but my options are just as risky as yours and this doesn't work on like half the characters properly

 

[Invincible Salads]

Not really, if you have read any of whats above its kind of a gimmick. Did you even read the post you are replying to? Its not like you can cancel into a string after the jailed j2, you need to commit to spending a bar on dive kick to be safe/launch, and even then can be punished. It's better in the corner but you have a lot of options against it.

mb divekick is save tho isnt it?

 

[wsj515]

mb divekick is save tho isnt it?

Literally said it was safe in my reply, but even then it has whiffing issues in the setup, as well as ways to make it not jail (again are you just not reading?) so you can still get full combo punished.