Match-up Discussion Jade Matchup Discussion Thread

[Arkayne]

I dont remember who asked but heres the footage of me vs Hitoshura at SB5.

http://www.twitch.tv/kombatnetwork/b/297555433

36:40

 

[BoysBoysBoys]

I find Quan is a hard MU for her because it's not just skull/trance you're dealing with, but rune tap along with his F121+2 string which gives him frame adv.

 

[JustObserver]

New tier list tells us about Jade's F-tier (16+ bad match-ups) and here they are:

Cage, Cyber Sub Zero, Cyrax, Ermac, Freddy, Kabal, Kenshi, Jax, Kitana, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Mileena, Reptile, Raiden, Sektor, Smoke, Sonya

Discuss... or cry 8(

 

[Prinz]

My opinion: Cyrax and Kitana are definitely not bad, at most 5-5 both, Kitana more 6-5. I have doubts about Freddy, but I have very least experience. The rest seems accurate.

 

[JustObserver]

I dont remember who asked but heres the footage of me vs Hitoshura at SB5.

http://www.twitch.tv/kombatnetwork/b/297555433

36:40

As it was live it's laggy a lot, anyway gj very interesting game in general, but my suggestion - more ex SO, that could make u a lot of combo setups.

 

[TakeAChance]

My opinion: Cyrax and Kitana are definitely not bad, at most 5-5 both, Kitana more 6-5. I have doubts about Freddy, but I have very least experience. The rest seems accurate.

I posted in the thread that Cyrax and Kitana should definitely be around 5-5 ESPECIALLY Cyrax. I think that is a 6-4 for Jade.

 

[SLy]

Anyone knows how to handle kano?..his pressure and frame traps can be overwhelming at times..

 

[JustObserver]

Anyone knows how to handle kano?..his pressure and frame traps can be overwhelming at times..

Well, i predicted his upball with b2 - hard but i succeded, and d3 + ex glow + ex SO were my helpers against his close game.

 

[SLy]

Well, i predicted his upball with b2 - hard but i succeded, and d3 + ex glow + ex SO were my helpers against his close game.

the b2 prediction has good reward but its too risky..I wouldn't even use it if I had a huge life lead..she can't really afford to get knocked down..I also use a lot of d1 and glow of course.. Ex SO is good but only from a distance..I hate the start up for the hyper armor..beause of bad start up I'll get hit out of it..not having the old U3 truthfully makes all of her matchups more annoying

 

[Arkayne]

That is a bad idea agaist Kano. I wouldn't risk that, I play against a kano and Josh the funk doc. Yeah, you'll get blown up free. Kano can do balls whenever he wants to. It isn't that you can predict them and B+2 a Kano Ball it's a BIG guess. Not a Prediction.

I suggest versus Kano is to play the hit and run game. Especially with Jade get a lead and stay back he has to come to you in the end. I know for a fact you can see a FULL SCREEN kano ball coming a Mile Away.

His knives are deceptively fast by the way.

 

[SLy]

That is a bad idea agaist Kano. I wouldn't risk that I play against a kano and Josh the funk doc. Yeah, you'll get blown up free. Kano can do balls whenever he wants to. It isn't that you can predict them B+2 a Kano Ball it's a BIG guess. Not a Prediction.

I suggest versus Kano is to play the hit and run game. Especially with Jade get a lead and stay back he has to come to you in the end. I know for a fact you can see a FULL SCREEN kano ball coming a Mile Away.

His knives are deceptively fast by the way.

yea the 1 game isn't the right idea as I just got blowned up for it a while ago lol...I noticed another thing..when you ex glow to keep pressure going he can upball through you and throw you off of your momentum... Guess I'll be asking this question in the punishment thread. Anyways because of this I don't think ex glow is that useful in this matchup offensively..I wouldn't reccomend against a good kano..it puts you in a position where youwant to get your hits in but because jade normals is slow you won't have time to punish upball..so in a sense when you glow you have to get ready for it as you pressure at that moment in time

 

[SLy]

The smoke MU
Besides the obvious (which is Flash cant negate Smoke bomb)

Whats the best way to go about it?

It gets tough sometimes because he has many ways to shut down her zoning game..His offense is better also.
Any Suggestions?

 

[Thead]

No doubt Smoke is a difficult matchup. I find the best way to approach him is by staying between the distances of just outside jump range and point blank, around B2 range seems ideal. At further distances Smoke holds the cards. Shadow Kick plays a part in moving closing the gap, as it'll cause Smoke Bomb to whiff, and Smoke is good at staying away. Don't use Rangs, unless you can make a GREAT read, a decent Smoke will Shake it every time - it's usually not worth the risk.

Sorry it's not great advice, I'm better at using her than explaining how I use her.

What are peoples experiences against Baraka?

Maybe I just suck, but it feels I can't do much against him unless I'm point blank in his face poking constantly, and that does measley damage, even for Jade. His Blade Charge fucks me up, slightly better range than Jade and it comes out quick with his blades having priority (staff moves are just way too slow to truly react to it). Is there a reliable way to punish Blade Charge with Jade on block? Are there general strats that are good against Baraka?

 

[Prinz]

I sooo understand you man about Baraka. He seems to me the second worst match-up after Kenshi. Motherfucker...

 

[JustObserver]

Lol, i thought i'm the only one who get troubles in this match-up. Can't get close, can't avoid blade charge, can't punish anything. Honestly, i got not too much matches against Baraka, but i have no idea how to fight him, except trying to keep him on a very large distance and avoiding blade charge.

 

[CompletelyJaded]

Baraka: Full range, if he gets closer than half a screen glow his string / special and punish.
Smoke: Alternate between feign sitting duck and rushdown. Bait his teleport with jump and reversef2 into 1db1 if he air teleports to teach him not to. If he spams smoke bombs, kick and make a good read of his next action.

 

[TheChad_87]

Matchups Based on My Current Experience

6-4 vs Cyrax This is a bad matchup for Cyrax. I almost want to put it as a 7-3 for Jade. I would if it wasn't for his potent damage.

No way. I'm personally from the camp that says "Yes. My character is OP. He has VERY few bad match-ups." But I think that seems to be the general opinion on him. There is no way Jade is a bad MU. What exactly can she do? I play Cyrax and am in no way tourney level with him, but I have played some of the better Jade players out there and I rarely feel threatened in this MU. Yes, if I stand mid-fullscreen throwing Nets, I will lose against Jade, but how does she handle him up close? 12xxNet, 33xxNet, jP21xxNet all lead to 70% and he has the Command Throw should she try to play defensively. He also has 111 and 334 for pressure tools, as well as some great pokes. He has all of these up-close tools that she can't do much of anything against. She MAY be able to make it a 5-5 because she does have EN Glow as a counter up-close and Flash does prevent him from using Net from far away, but he shouldn't be throwing random nets in this matchup. Not at all. In fact, I wouldnt let his chest open unless it was in the middle of a hit-confirmed string. I'd call this a 5-5 AT BEST for her. No way she has any advantage.

5-5 vs Johnny Cage I think this matchup isn't that bad for Jade. She can glow through all of his pressure traps and usually get a free combo out of it. (Like his EX Fireball trap)

I can't agree with this one, either. I have A LOT of experience with this match-up, and I can't imagine it being neutral at all. Her only reliable pressure escape is going to be EN Glow and D3. Given, if her poke game is stellar she can get out with a few D3s followed by a B2. But, of the characters I play, I feel she has the most trouble escaping pressure. She needs on point meter management. Yes, she can win this one, but it's not easy. I feel she works a lot harder than he. 4-6, maybe 4.5-5.5.

5-5 vs Kitana Jade and Kitanna are battling for similar space here. This match is all about who has the life lead.

This one is pretty highly debatable, I think. But honestly, in my opinion, it goes (slightly) in Jade's favour. And that comes from experience playing both sides of the match-up. Against Jade, zoning just is not an option for Kitana. I've played a lot with Birdsongs (Jade vs Kitana) and StarCharger (Kitana vs Jade). and I really do feel at the advantage on the Jade side and like I'm struggling for footing as Kit.
We are fighting for the same footing, but if Jade is out of that zone, she has the upper hand.
I don't think it's a significant advantage for Jade, though. Something like 5.5-4.5. I wouldnt even call it a bad MU.
Note: Looking at your list, you used only whole numbers, and I would be VERY hard pressed to call it 6-4, so I get it.

6-4 vs Shang Tsung

No way. Maybe against an Alex Valle or Mr Napps style zoning Shang; but against a rushdown/frame trapping Shang, She's gonna have a hard time. He's faster than her up close, and (like in the Cage Match-Up) she has a hard time escaping his pressure game. I'd call it 5-5. Neutralizing his zoning is big, but not enough to swing it in her favour, imo.

4-6 vs Sonya Blade - This matchup is tough. Sonya can take away your staff slam with the arc kick, she is also a better zoner than you, and a WAY better up close fighter. Difficult matchup.

I'd almost call it a 3-7. This one is VERY tough for her.

6-4 vs Stryker I agree with this, Strykers whole game is pretty much negated.

What are you negating? He can hesitate and cancel the gunshot into a Roll Toss. His mix-up is easily fuzzy-guarded once you learn it, though. I can agree with calling it a 6-4, but that statement makes it sound like she completely shuts him down. I think a safe Roll Toss and an 8f Roundhouse are enough to keep her on her toes.

6-4 vs Sub-Zero

This one is going to be controversial. I REALLY think Jade has the advantage here. Especially if you are going to "Lame it out". It is insane how many Sub Zero's at least online, have no idea what to do when you can stay at full screen and negate their ice blast. This matchup is about life leads, and patience, but with the ability to negate any meter build from Sub at fullscreen, he is going to get desperate. Jade can handle this matchup very well.

No way. A Rushdown Sub-Zero will destroy Jade. Well, not destroy, but he definitely keeps her on her toes. I've played this match-up plenty and seen footage of Easy Fresh v Shoryuken. Fresh could use a bit more Flash in his life, but his spacing is nearly perfect and his use of B2 is phenomenal. And having played against him myself, I'd be hard-pressed to find a better Jade player. Yes, Jade goes 6-4 against a zoning Sub, but utilizing B12 and 22, he can rush her down far too easily. I call it 5-5.

I've commented on the ones I disagree with, but for the most part, I find your match-up assessment spot on. Good job.

 

[TakeAChance]

No way. I'm personally from the camp that says "Yes. My character is OP. He has VERY few bad match-ups." But I think that seems to be the general opinion on him. There is no way Jade is a bad MU. What exactly can she do? I play Cyrax and am in no way tourney level with him, but I have played some of the better Jade players out there and I rarely feel threatened in this MU. Yes, if I stand mid-fullscreen throwing Nets, I will lose against Jade, but how does she handle him up close? 12xxNet, 33xxNet, jP21xxNet all lead to 70% and he has the Command Throw should she try to play defensively. He also has 111 and 334 for pressure tools, as well as some great pokes. He has all of these up-close tools that she can't do much of anything against. She MAY be able to make it a 5-5 because she does have EN Glow as a counter up-close and Flash does prevent him from using Net from far away, but he shouldn't be throwing random nets in this matchup. Not at all. In fact, I wouldnt let his chest open unless it was in the middle of a hit-confirmed string. I'd call this a 5-5 AT BEST for her. No way she has any advantage.


I can't agree with this one, either. I have A LOT of experience with this match-up, and I can't imagine it being neutral at all. Her only reliable pressure escape is going to be EN Glow and D3. Given, if her poke game is stellar she can get out with a few D3s followed by a B2. But, of the characters I play, I feel she has the most trouble escaping pressure. She needs on point meter management. Yes, she can win this one, but it's not easy. I feel she works a lot harder than he. 4-6, maybe 4.5-5.5.


This one is pretty highly debatable, I think. But honestly, in my opinion, it goes (slightly) in Jade's favour. And that comes from experience playing both sides of the match-up. Against Jade, zoning just is not an option for Kitana. I've played a lot with Birdsongs (Jade vs Kitana) and StarCharger (Kitana vs Jade). and I really do feel at the advantage on the Jade side and like I'm struggling for footing as Kit.
We are fighting for the same footing, but if Jade is out of that zone, she has the upper hand.
I don't think it's a significant advantage for Jade, though. Something like 5.5-4.5. I wouldnt even call it a bad MU.
Note: Looking at your list, you used only whole numbers, and I would be VERY hard pressed to call it 6-4, so I get it.


No way. Maybe against an Alex Valle or Mr Napps style zoning Shang; but against a rushdown/frame trapping Shang, She's gonna have a hard time. He's faster than her up close, and (like in the Cage Match-Up) she has a hard time escaping his pressure game. I'd call it 5-5. Neutralizing his zoning is big, but not enough to swing it in her favour, imo.


I'd almost call it a 3-7. This one is VERY tough for her.


What are you negating? He can hesitate and cancel the gunshot into a Roll Toss. His mix-up is easily fuzzy-guarded once you learn it, though. I can agree with calling it a 6-4, but that statement makes it sound like she completely shuts him down. I think a safe Roll Toss and an 8f Roundhouse are enough to keep her on her toes.


No way. A Rushdown Sub-Zero will destroy Jade. Well, not destroy, but he definitely keeps her on her toes. I've played this match-up plenty and seen footage of Easy Fresh v Shoryuken. Fresh could use a bit more Flash in his life, but his spacing is nearly perfect and his use of B2 is phenomenal. And having played against him myself, I'd be hard-pressed to find a better Jade player. Yes, Jade goes 6-4 against a zoning Sub, but utilizing B12 and 22, he can rush her down far too easily. I call it 5-5.

I've commented on the ones I disagree with, but for the most part, I find your match-up assessment spot on. Good job.

Been a while since I posted in here.

I should revisit my matchup. I feel the game has matured more since I last posted them. There are a couple I would definitely tweak. With Cyrax, I still feel Jade has the advantage. Being able to float around the screen without worrying about the net is wonderful in the matchup. Yes, Rax can still get you in strings, but if he is chasing you, that is all the better for Jade.

Shang: Jade can sit literally midscreen. He can't fireball. He has no teleport. All he has is soul steal. If he jumps, you b2, if he fireballs you flash then staff slam/shadow kick. Shang has to respect glow up close and upskulls will not be an issue.

Sub Zero: I admit Rush down subs are a problem.

Kitanna- I almost disagree with you here. Playing countless matches with 16 bit, Gr8 and Jimmy have really made me want to make this a 5-5 or a 5.5-5 in Kitannas favour. Kit's strings have so much priority over Jades. A good Kitanna that knows how to mixup will eat you alive up close.

Cage Matchup - Offline this isn't as bad as you would think. Online, it's awful. Jades Ex Glow can be used IN BETWEEN cages main frame trap setup. It usually results in a full combo. Jade can do a decent job zoning him out as well.

 

[STB Bodam]

I have her pegged at 6-4 against noob. It would be higher, but Noob does have a decent rushdown believe it or not.

Man,
I'd love to play a match with you Chance. I always hear your Jade can be very dangerous. Do you play on Xbox or are you an offline type of person? Send me a friend request if you'd be interested in doing some friendly sparring against me and my brother (we use the same account).

 

[TheChad_87]

And you're allowed to disagree. That's just my opinion on those matches. Ask 100 different players, get 100 different answers. ^_^

I do have to question what Cyrax players you are playing against, though. I cant imagine her being advantage there. His rushdown is better even without his huge resets. And if she ever, even once, uses Flash then Boomerang, a well-timed Net catches at the end of the Flash animation before another can be input, making it difficult for her to zone him.

You said, her being able to "float around the screen" is great, but what exactly is she doing while she's floating? This assessment really confuses me.

 

[TakeAChance]

Drivin

And you're allowed to disagree. That's just my opinion on those matches. Ask 100 different players, get 100 different answers. ^_^

I do have to question what Cyrax players you are playing against, though. I cant imagine her being advantage there. His rushdown is better even without his huge resets. And if she ever, even once, uses Flash then Boomerang, a well-timed Net catches at the end of the Flash animation before another can be input, making it difficult for her to zone him.

You said, her being able to "float around the screen" is great, but what exactly is she doing while she's floating? This assessment really confuses me.

Driving rax to the corner.

 

[TheChad_87]

Which he then teles out of and uses his superior corner pressure against her?

Cyrax has to be careful with the tele, but still turns the tables easily enough. Cyblax can use it all damn day.

Edit: Reading that back, it sounds a little condescending, which is not my intention. Sorry for that. I'm legitimately curious as to what puts it in her favor in your opinion, and I wouldn't imagine "Solid corner game" would cut it against a character with a tele and strong corner game of his own. Anyway, once again, sorry If it comes across as me being a dick. I assure you, that's not my intention. I'm looking for mature, civil discussion. ^_^

 

[CompletelyJaded]

Why are we giving tips to other characters in how to beat jade in her own matchup thread, and why aren't we talking about her winning strategies instead? >_<

 

[Thead]

Baraka Blade Charge is easily punished with Shadow Kick, and anything faster. Dash 1 also works.

Shoulda figured that out a lot faster.

 

[RTM2004]

I'll just post based on my experience with Jade online and see if I can get help in certain MU.

5-5 vs Baraka - Solid even. Jade creates the space keeping Baraka away. Her rushdown is not that good with Baraka but she can counter with Ex Flash for combo punishment opportunities.

4-6 vs Cyber Sub-Zero - CSZ Dive Kicks and Ice Bombs ruin her spacing in this match up. Her attacks get Ice Parried and CSZ can pressure her more than she can, he also has a higher damage output. She can't zone either because her Boomerangs are very slow on start up, the best she can do is punish his Slide and when his Ice Parry frames recover.

5-5 vs Cyrax - Cyrax can pressure Jade more than she can pressure him, his damage output is very high compared to hers. He can't zone Jade because of her Flash but he has a variety of tools get in on Jade with set ups.

5-5 vs Ermac - Jade and Ermac both turtle this match from full screen and a lot of baiting. His damage output is higher but from full screen Ermac takes more risk because he can't shoot fireballs at her and has no choice but to Teleport at some point or play Levitate mind games with risk. The moment Jade gets in close contact, her Ex Flash is very useful.

4-6 vs Freddy Krueger - Freddy can't projectile spam but he can claw Jade on the ground, even pin her for combo pressure. Jade needs Ex Flash in her upclose game to get in on Freddy, especially for his Nightmare Stance mix ups. The good thing is that her Pole Slam, Back2 and Up3 come very handy with the reach closing space on Freddy.

4-6 vs Jax - Jade can keep Jax away but within sweep distance, Jax's F4 strings, armored Ex Dash Punch and armored Ex Elbow Smash puts Ground Pound pressure on her for insane set ups leading towards the corner. Ex Flash comes in handy up close and to retreat full screen to throw Boomerangs.

4-6 vs Johnny Cage - Jade just needs to keep him away, watch out for his Ex Shadow Kick and punish accordingly and watch her space because his F3 combo set up. Once Cage is in, it's very challenging to get him off Jade. Ex Flash helps but Cage up close wins this one once he gets in.

4-6 vs Kabal - Kabal can't zone Jade. Jade also takes risk trying to zone Kabal with her Boomerangs because of his Ex Nomad Dash. Jade takes risk trying to close space with Up3 and Glow Kick because Kabal baits those attacks. Close up Kabal pressure with NDC game beats Jade into F4 knee resets. Jade can only punish a Blocked Ex Dash, missed Ground Saw and has to find ways staying in on Kabal also watch his meters.

5-5 vs Kano - Kano can't zone Jade, she can punish his Balls and make him respect his Upball spam.

3-7 vs Kenshi - Jade is real helpless in this match, she has to burn meter to stay in. She has to Ex Glow Kick from full screen to get in and Ex Flash to stay in on Kenshi. It's definitely one of the few worst match ups in the entire game.

4.5-5.5 vs Kitana - Kitana's upclose game, high damage output puts this in her favor. With Jade's Up3 prior to the nerf, Kitana was never a problem but with it gone, Kitana can fly away everywhere forcing Jade to play catch which sets Jade up with punishment from her F2,1 - Jump Kick~Fan Toss etc. If Jade had a higher damage output on the same level as Kitana, I would call it 5-5 solid even.

4-6 vs Kung Lao - Jade's playstyle has to adjust to Kung Lao's speed, between his Teleport 3 (in particular), F3 Roll, Spins, jump in and cross ups (which Jade is very weak against). It is manageable but Jade had to speed up to win this fast pace.

4-6 vs Liu Kang - Liu Kang has better footsies than Jade that leads to his 3 button combos. He can't zone her but he can rushdown on her like there is no tomorrow once he gets in on Jade. All she can do is Ex Flash and counter attack.

4-6 vs Mileena - Jade has to be very, very careful in this match. They are both even in regards to damage output but Mileena controls the match, not only Jade afraid of jumping but any wrong move Jade does leaves her open for punishment. Mileena can't zone with Sais. Jade should never to to throw out Boomerangs full screen due to her slow recovery, one wrong move opens a free Mileena Teleport Kick which staggers. Jade also has to watch out throwing out a missed Back2 and Up3 because it puts her airborne which Mileena can combo from a Teleport Kick, Sai Toss or Roll.

5-5 vs Nightwolf - This could be in Nightwolf's favor, he has no reason to come over to Jade but she does.

6-4 vs Noob Saibot - Jade eliminates Noob Saibot's zoning attempts and forces him to play risky because of his Teleport. Noob Saibot's zoning game is out of the picture so he has to rushdown which Jade can keep him out with her proper spacing. The only downside to Jade is to make sure she never gets corner combo'd to death by Noob Saibot.

5-5 vs Quan Chi - Know his mix ups and never get caught in his Trance.

3-7 vs Raiden - Nothing much Jade can do here, Raiden escapes like there is no tomorrow. Her best luck is to bait a Superman and manage to cross-up when Raiden Teleports in the corner which gives her good follow ups.

5-5 vs Rain - Jade needs to out-footsie Rain here.

5-5 vs Reptile - Online Reptiles Jade can't punish his maniac Dash properly. Offline, this is a solid even match for Jade.

5-5 vs Scorpion - If Jade manages to stay out of Scorpion's vortex set ups.

5-5 vs Sektor - Sektor can't zone Jade and his Teleport Punch can be baited. His Flamethrower gives Jade problems if she tries to get in but given enough spacing she can keep Sektor out too. Ex Flash works best up close to counter his pressure.

5-5 vs Shang Tsung - Shang Tsung can not zone Jade but his blockstring and pressure is enough to give her trouble up close. Jade just needs to keep him out and not be trapped, Ex Glow counter him and keep him out.

5-5 vs Sheeva - This is a weird match up. I've played some very good Sheeva players to call it even. Jade and Sheeva are counter attack characters, they feed off punishment bait. Sheeva needs to get in as Jade needs to get in too. Sheeva jumps, she gets hit with Jade's Back2. If Jade jumps, she gets grabbed in the air. Zoning is where they need to be careful, Sheeva can Stomp the ground and her Fireball does a lot of damage (which Jade can Flash), if Jade tries to throw a Boomerang due to her slow recovery she will get Sheeva Stomped in the air which Sheeva can set up Low Grabs, Command Grab, Throw or F4 afterwards. Jade has low damage output, Sheeva has high damage output so their game is purely built playing footsies here.

5.5-4.5 vs Sindel - Sindel can't zone but she has great traits staying in on Jade.

5-5 vs Skarlet - I don't have experience playing this match up since there are very few Skarlet players out there on XBL. I've played TuReDimsky and Shujinkydink with Jade, it was manageable but not enough to give a MU ratio.

4-6 vs Smoke - Jade can't Flash through Smoke Bombs. Jade has no real way to build meter except from the damage taken while Smoke can runaway and build meter rapidly. She has to play catch as no Smoke will randomly throw Teleports. Even if she gets in close to attack, he can Smoke away like playing cat and mouse.

4-6 vs Sonya Blade - Jade has to make it tough from Sonya getting in. All it takes is one Sonya Dive Kick and Jade is dead meat from high damage. Ex Flash comes in handy to counter attack but majority of the time Sonya also has breaker. This is a very bad match up because Sonya has ways staying in, getting in while Jade has few options to retreat and create space.

5-5 vs Stryker - Styker can't zone but he can Roll towards Jade. He's not a threat to her and she is not a threat to him.

5-5 vs Sub-Zero - SZ rushdown game is very good, Jade is very weak against jump in punched combos which is how Sub-Zero gets in and keep in with his resets. He doesn't do much damage but overall his set up deals more than what she can. All Jade can do is zone him out full screen and punish his Slides and jump in attempts.

Jade has 12+ bad match ups. Any other opinions or inputs regarding what I've experienced?