Match-up Discussion Is Sub Zero the bane of Jax?

[LEGEND]

and Johnny cage is a lot better than Jax when he's in your grill.

nope

edit: ^and if jax reads a D4 he cant ohs over it for a punish^

 

[salvificblood]

you do realize that.... if the Jax player is of any decent level... if you do corner him... he can simple wait for you to clone and switch places with you right? At any point if he has meter he can put you in an unfavorable position. If you whiff ONE d4 trying to play footsie he punishes with f4.

You have to be flawless to beat Jax. He can controls this match at the highest level. Basically sitting back and counter punching anything you throw out. Jax knows that you can't beat him by d4 alone.
Again... what are you going to do once you knock him down? d4? Really that is all you have.
When Jax knocks you down... he can keep his proximity and negate clones, and can simply lock you down with f4 string.

Again, the people you are playing are obviously ignorant to the matchup... or you are just that much better than they are in the skill department.

The thing I have learned playing Sub-Zero as much as I have is that he has the most specific spacing and footsies in the game. He's kind of like Noob in that Noob has fantastic keepaway with a solid understanding of how to zone and space yourself but if you screw up with Noob, you get pressured a tonne and die. Jax is just one of those matchups where you rely on your spacing and footsies with Sub-Zero.

Whiffed d4s are a result of poor spacing, by the way. You don't use d4 to stop Jax advancing, you use the clone for that, which is only punishable by ex dash punch.

edit: ^and if jax reads a D4 he cant ohs over it for a punish^

Good luck with that, especially given the fact I may cancel the d4 with clone.

 

[G4S KT]

Tom Brady said that the match is 6-4 in subz favor.

 

[salvificblood]

Tom Brady said that the match is 6-4 in subz favor.

I find it easier to win with Sub vs Jax than I do with Smoke at the moment. Wrong thread I know, but I'd be grateful for any tips from the Smoke perspective on that matchup, KT; I want to get to a point where I am maining Sub and Smoke (undoubtedly the two coolest characters in the game... obviously, lol). Have you commented on the Jax matchup with Smoke before?

 

[LEGEND]

Good luck with that, especially given the fact I may cancel the d4 with clone.

on wiff. . .?

 

[salvificblood]

on wiff. . .?

No, obviously on Jax's wakeup. You have invincibility frames on wakeup, which tank the d4 but not the clone, unless you use the armoured version.

It's not an issue otherwise.

 

[G4S KT]

I find it easier to win with Sub vs Jax than I do with Smoke at the moment. Wrong thread I know, but I'd be grateful for any tips from the Smoke perspective on that matchup, KT; I want to get to a point where I am maining Sub and Smoke (undoubtedly the two coolest characters in the game... obviously, lol). Have you commented on the Jax matchup with Smoke before?

To briefly derail the thread, indeed I have both back in the "Smoke Matchup Discussion" thread and in my personal Smoke thread (Wrath of the Jackalope). I feel like it's 5-5.

 

[LEGEND]

No, obviously on Jax's wakeup. You have invincibility frames on wakeup, which tank the d4 but not the clone, unless you use the armoured version.

It's not an issue otherwise.

i was talking about how ohs hops over D4

its not like it a huge thing about this matchup but you were misunderstanding.

 

[Bidu]

Tom Brady said that the match is 6-4 in subz favor.

He also said Sub-Zero would be top3 in patch 1.05. So?

 

[charlieonline]

He can't just block the d4 and automatically f4 because this is a matchup where you should cancel d4 with clone every now and then.

Again, Jax cannot just dash up to my Sub-Zero and f4. The air ice clone is not something you just throw out, you use it to alter your jump to avoid ground pounds and to stop him challenging you in the air.

I got all my matchup experience against a very fine Jax player and I have no problem playing footsies against Jax. Perhaps I just know how to play against Jax?

how can jax d4 when sub's is 8f and jax's d4 is 12.

 

[Tom Brady]

jax wins vs sub. sub winning 6-4 was in version 1.04

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

how can jax d4 when sub's is 8f and jax's d4 is 12.

F4.... the low kick that has stupid range and speed. oh and because Sub has a large hit box ... he can get random advantage at mid screen!!!! good times.
F4 is what Jax uses to punish pokes with, and is a staple of his game against most of the cast.

 

[CD jr]

jax vs sub is 9-1 jax yay

 

[ChuckFiasco]

Sub-Zero at this point is a hit-or-miss character. If the opponent doesn't know the match-up, then Sub-Zero can walk all over them. And if they do, there's not much he can do. It sounds like they just didn't know the match-up, because it is in Jax's favor.

This...

 

[Bidu]

jax vs sub is 9-1 jax yay

lol stfu cdjr!

 

[salvificblood]

I really can't see how Jax beats Sub-Zero. The matchup feels a lot more like 5-5 now but only because Jax gets random advantage off f413, which is incredibly stupid. Outside of that, I feel Sub-Zero has a much easier time handling Jax than so much of the cast. If Jax is even with Smoke, he absolutely cannot be at advantage against Sub-Zero or even Noob Saibot, man. If he beats Sub-Zero as easily as everyone is making out, then I really don't understand why the matchup doesn't play out that way for me. It really isn't as though I am playing bad Jax players.

In any case, the matchup is certainly not as bad as Sub players are making out. Just need to learn the matchup because I don't think anybody other than TB is playing CDjr week in week out.

 

[Panque]

6 - 4 is not that hard of a matchup, it's not like sub can't win, but if he does, he is the best player for sure (or the opponent is ignorant on the matchup). Nobody is saying it's 9 - 1, aside from CD jr of course.

 

[Bidu]

jax wins vs sub. sub winning 6-4 was in version 1.04

That's more like it.

 

[Theme]

I have huge troubles as Jax vs my friends Sub Zero. I cannot get in on him, so I try and build meter, but Sub Zero's footsies game is beast. His d4 is so god damned beast (or is it d3?) Whichever, I still have a hard time against low pokers. In honesty, I find Sub Zero to be really dangerous vs characters like Jax or Liu Kang (anyone without a teleport basically). Sure you can zone with projectiles, but projectiles are easily traded with those damned ice balls. Sub Zero recovers so god damn quick.

 

[Tom Brady]

6 - 4 is not that hard of a matchup, it's not like sub can't win, but if he does, he is the best player for sure (or the opponent is ignorant on the matchup). Nobody is saying it's 9 - 1, aside from CD jr of course.

sub cannot win vs top characters at the highest level.. he is the worst character in MK9. the only match he wins is csz.. i have found something vs sub to exploit that has him lose every match in the game aside from vs csz.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

sub cannot win vs top characters at the highest level.. he is the worst character in MK9. the only match he wins is csz.. i have found something vs sub to exploit that has him lose every match in the game aside from vs csz.

Care to enlighten us?

If theres something so universal to him, maybe it works for others?

 

[Seapeople]

sub cannot win vs top characters at the highest level.. he is the worst character in MK9. the only match he wins is csz.. i have found something vs sub to exploit that has him lose every match in the game aside from vs csz.

I know you don't like explaining stuff to the Sub forums but this sounds important enough for an exception. What'd you find man?

Even without your exploit, Sub vs Cage is probably down to 6-4 now that cage's f3 has been exposed.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I know you don't like explaining stuff to the Sub forums but this sounds important enough for an exception. What'd you find man?

Even without your exploit, Sub vs Cage is probably down to 6-4 now that cage's f3 has been exposed.

It being exposed doesnt change anything

 

[Tom Brady]

1. define "exposed" lol

2. cage beats sub

 

[Seapeople]

It being exposed doesnt change anything

I don't think Cage players used to spam f3 nonstop because it was neutral. Now that we know it gives random advantage, Cage players will be more abusive of the move which gives him a better comeback factor. Still Sub's favor but it does change the match a bit

1. define "exposed" lol

2. cage beats sub

Cage's f3 is randomly +9. Similar to jax's corner block infinite but Cage can do it midscreen. Do you care to elaborate on your new stuff?