Is Shang’s soul swap an auto-win against most characters?

[Guds Skyfall]

It seems there’s nothing you can do against someone turtling with this move and punishing your projectiles with shake. Am I missing something, because this is legitimately the most absurd move I’ve encountered in decades.

 

[Marinjuana]

That's Smoke alright

What do you do when Scorpion keeps teleport-punishing your projectiles? Just walk forward and play neutral and hope you got some cheap shit in your loadout to pull out when you get there.

 

[Guds Skyfall]

Scorpion roflsromps it for sure, but what about non-tele characters? You might be able to punish it on reaction with fast-moving specials like shadow kick from mid range, but I think you’ll have to buffer the input which leaves you exposed to his other moves. And Shang can just create breathing room when you get close by doing ex db2.

Seems you have to rely on lemming “tactics” hoping to get in, and then pray he’ll never guess right to get out of your pressure.

Am I missing some way to counter this?

 

[dc1902]

Scorpion roflsromps it for sure, but what about non-tele characters? You might be able to punish it on reaction with fast-moving specials like shadow kick from mid range, but I think you’ll have to buffer the input which leaves you exposed to his other moves. And Shang can just create breathing room when you get close by doing ex db2.

Seems you have to rely on lemming “tactics” hoping to get in, and then pray he’ll never guess right to get out of your pressure.

Am I missing some way to counter this?

At first I thought you had to be grounded in order to get caught in it. I jumped and STILL got caught with it in the AIR.

This game was advertised as a skill based game based around neutral,but the developers are putting all these scrub mechanics in(wake up foward roll,crazy fast projectiles,and 6 frame d1s) and making it less skill based more and more. I don't like the direction this game is going. I thought this game would require some skill to play,but when you see characters like sonya and erron black and all this other b.s. crap that clearly caters to scrubs it makes you wonder. I honestly might sell mk11 and get an rpg(lol).

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

That move has like 30 start up and 30 recovery frames. You really should be able to punish that on reaction unless it's from fullscreen away.

 

[Guds Skyfall]

Recovery? The move is unblockable. Do you mean Shang Tsung can be punished after hitting the opponent with it. As for the 30 frames on startup (I doubt it’s that fast), it’s literally impossible to punish that from midscreen with most characters. An average human reaction time is a bit below 20 frames. So if you literally sit there and wait for this move, leaving yourself exposed to his other stuff, you have at best 10 frames to get to him. Tell me, what moves travel half the screen in ten frames?

 

[RoboCop]

He means -30 on block. It’s not unblockable; don’t know where you got that info. If Shang uses the move and you block it, most characters should be able to punish it. Hell, I think even D’Vorah’s f2 might be able to punish it.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Recovery? The move is unblockable. Do you mean Shang Tsung can be punished after hitting the opponent with it. As for the 30 frames on startup (I doubt it’s that fast), it’s literally impossible to punish that from midscreen with most characters. An average human reaction time is a bit below 20 frames. So if you literally sit there and wait for this move, leaving yourself exposed to his other stuff, you have at best 10 frames to get to him. Tell me, what moves travel half the screen in ten frames?

OK glad you made a thread to ask but it seems like you are not taking advise or solutions.

1. Its -25 on block very punishable by many characters on reaction including:

• Liu Kang fly kick
• Geras sand/FB
• Scorpion teleport
• Raiden F4(micro dash) & Superman/Electric Current(Raijin).
• Jacqui dash punch
• Jax FB
• Sub Zero Slide/Shoulder
• Erron Black Fatal Blow
• Johnny Shadow Kick
• Jade Shadow Kick and more.
• Cassie BF2(Yaas Queen)
• Kano KanoBall
• Shao Kahn: Shoulder Charger/F2 both full combo.
• Kotal: F24(full combo)

I'm sure there is more.
Its not his turn after since it has so much recovery.

2. Its not unblockable in any way. Have no clue why you thought it was.

3. You have a lot more than 10 frames to punish it. 25 frame to be exact. When you buffer a special move on reversal it comes out the next available frame guaranteed to punish if the move is less than 25f startup.

Its a strong tool but can't be mashed out whenever.

 

[Rip Torn]

Guys, he's talking about a custom move where he switches bodies with you, not Soul Steal.

 

[RoboCop]

Oops. I haven't even looked at his custom moves.

 

[Guds Skyfall]

Yeah. Soul steal is definitely not broken, lol. Check out soul swap and you’ll see what I’m talking about. This move honestly seems literally game breaking. And I’m not one to use such words casually.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Yeah. Soul steal is definitely not broken, lol. Check out soul swap and you’ll see what I’m talking about. This move honestly seems literally game breaking. And I’m not one to use such words casually.

Ohh yeah thAt one is definitely unblockable but I wouldn't call it broken by any stretch of the word. It can really only be used full screen because it has very slow startup and can be interrupted during startup and has quite a bit of recovery. It only does 5% but yeah its definitely powerful. But I was able to choose what moves to add to his tournament variation I'd choose Ground Explosion + Shake/Explosive Corpses.
The shake counters so many things and can be used in some gaps, definitely strong AF and the Exploding Corpses give him 38% one bar And 45% Two Bar combos midscreen(Not Optimal) . Probably why none of these moves are in his tournament vars

I've experimented With all if his moves Kustom and all the FireNado traps are very strong but all of them have limitations. You can only combo from the Fire trap if you launch your opponent into the air before they hit it otherwise it allows them to block any following move immediately. I'm sure it is string in the corner and in other applications but I think his best moves include: Ground Explosion with Shake/Exploding Corpses.

 

[Guds Skyfall]

Ohh yeah thAt one is definitely unblockable but I wouldn't call it broken by any stretch of the word. It can really only be used full screen because it has very slow startup and can be interrupted during startup and has quite a bit of recovery. It only does 5% but yeah its definitely powerful. But I was able to choose what moves to add to his tournament variation I'd choose Ground Explosion + Shake/Explosive Corpses.
The shake counters so many things and can be used in some gaps, definitely strong AF and the Exploding Corpses give him 45% one bar combos midscreen. Probably why none of these moves are in his tournament vars

I've experimented With all if his moves Kustom and all the FireNado traps are very strong but all of them have limitations. You can only combo from the Fire trap if you launch your opponent into the air before they hit it otherwise it allows them to block any following move immediately. I'm sure it is string in the corner and in other applications but I think his best moves include: Ground Explosion with Shake/Exploding Corpses.

I don't know, man. I'm not seeing anyone taking on a Shang Tsung using that move ad nauseam while punishing projectiles with shake. Unless they're Scorpion. Do you know the startup frames? I'm not at home at the moment so I can't check.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Ohh yeah thAt one is definitely unblockable but I wouldn't call it broken by any stretch of the word. It can really only be used full screen because it has very slow startup and can be interrupted during startup and has quite a bit of recovery. It only does 5% but yeah its definitely powerful. But I was able to choose what moves to add to his tournament variation I'd choose Ground Explosion + Shake/Explosive Corpses.
The shake counters so many things and can be used in some gaps, definitely strong AF and the Exploding Corpses give him 45% one bar combos midscreen. Probably why none of these moves are in his tournament vars

I've experimented With all if his moves Kustom and all the FireNado traps are very strong but all of them have limitations. You can only combo from the Fire trap if you launch your opponent into the air before they hit it otherwise it allows them to block any following move immediately. I'm sure it is string in the corner and in other applications but I think his best moves include: Ground Explosion with Shake/Exploding Corpses.

what you mean 45% one bar? u gotta 2 bars to get that kind of damage. and honestly i don't think i'd be an issue to have exploding corpse in a tourney variation.

 

[fr stack]

Does skarlets tentacle beat smoke parry? It works vs jades glow so maybe .. i havent even looked at his customs tho so i dunno

 

[SaSSolino]

It probably shouldn't do that much damage, but in my most match ups it's a free punish on hit.

 

[legion666]

Recovery? The move is unblockable. Do you mean Shang Tsung can be punished after hitting the opponent with it. As for the 30 frames on startup (I doubt it’s that fast), it’s literally impossible to punish that from midscreen with most characters. An average human reaction time is a bit below 20 frames. So if you literally sit there and wait for this move, leaving yourself exposed to his other stuff, you have at best 10 frames to get to him. Tell me, what moves travel half the screen in ten frames?

it is punishable on hit, very very punishable. The move list says it's -93 on hit lol))) but I think it is around -30, -35 since the recovery is 35 frames
here is a 20+ frames move punish:

here is a projectile punish, keep in mind that besides the start up, projectile has some travel frames

here is a punish with Noob's 30 frames teleport:

With Johnny's and Jade's Shadow kicks, Sub Zero's slide or even Shoulder you can go make yourself a coffee and be back in time to punish that)

 

[legion666]

Recovery? The move is unblockable. Do you mean Shang Tsung can be punished after hitting the opponent with it. As for the 30 frames on startup (I doubt it’s that fast), it’s literally impossible to punish that from midscreen with most characters. An average human reaction time is a bit below 20 frames. So if you literally sit there and wait for this move, leaving yourself exposed to his other stuff, you have at best 10 frames to get to him. Tell me, what moves travel half the screen in ten frames?

And if that isn't enough here is how Kotal can punish it in mid range for a full combo

 

[Guds Skyfall]

And if that isn't enough here is how Kotal can punish it in mid range for a full combo

Thanks, man – didn't know it was so negative on hit. This truly changes everything!

 

[Sonzai]

Kinda crazy Shang Tsung can just throw this move out 3 times for bassicly free for 150 unblockable damage
While D'Vorah with her bugs has to work so hard and spend a meter to get the same effect

 

[legion666]

Kinda crazy Shang Tsung can just throw this move out 3 times for bassicly free for 150 unblockable damage
While D'Vorah with her bugs has to work so hard and spend a meter to get the same effect

I mean, is it free if it is -35 on hit????
anyway It's not tournament legal so whatever. D'Vorah turns into bug that is impossible to hit for some kharecters when you kill her. So cheap stuff is everywhere outside of the tournament variations

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

what you mean 45% one bar? u gotta 2 bars to get that kind of damage. and honestly i don't think i'd be an issue to have exploding corpse in a tourney variation.

My bad I meant two bars around 38% 1 bar. But I never said I think it shouldn't be in tourney I think NRS thought they where to string maybe but after seeing all characters customs I'm starting to think most of them where not thought out well if at all.
Exploding Corpse + Ground Explosion is my preferred loadout for Tournament Variations and Shake + Ground Explosion is my secondary then I'd pick FireNado + Ground Explosion as my third loadout if we ever get Kustom for Ranked.
But with Shang being high mid tier at bare minimum I doubt we will get a change unless its a universal one to variations like: a third tourney variety/customs allowed.

 

[SaSSolino]

My bad I meant two bars around 38% 1 bar. But I never said I think it shouldn't be in tourney I think NRS thought they where to string maybe but after seeing all characters customs I'm starting to think most of them where not thought out well if at all.
Exploding Corpse + Ground Explosion is my preferred loadout for Tournament Variations and Shake + Ground Explosion is my secondary then I'd pick FireNado + Ground Explosion as my third loadout if we ever get Kustom for Ranked.
But with Shang being high mid tier at bare minimum I doubt we will get a change unless its a universal one to variations like: a third tourney variety/customs allowed.

Hey man don't sleep on Rain's kick. It's not as bad as people think.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I don't know, man. I'm not seeing anyone taking on a Shang Tsung using that move ad nauseam while punishing projectiles with shake. Unless they're Scorpion. Do you know the startup frames? I'm not at home at the moment so I can't check.

Not at home but I'm sure its more than 30 maybe 36 but I'll check

 

[Sonzai]

I mean, is it free if it is -35 on hit????
anyway It's not tournament legal so whatever. D'Vorah turns into bug that is impossible to hit for some kharecters when you kill her. So cheap stuff is everywhere outside of the tournament variations

Hmm, "free" probably was a poor choice of words
Meant more like not spending recources
Haven't played a lot with it but i'm pretty sure it's safe vs any non teleport character after any throw or combo that leaves them full screen

But what you said, it's not tournament legal so whatever