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Is Searing Rage the go-to variation now?

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Right, and then what? full screen spear/ TP mixup lol?
For him the neutral is reset and he can approach as normal. He literally negates strike/throw doing this.

Even SR at close range can't really get people off him (on block of course). DS is pretty punishable at close distance, or even resets someone's stagger game. He actually is in pretty big danger when challenged in his face.

Not the place he wants to live.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
This is true. Once F34 KB is gone you can challenge f3 stagger with little risk.

F34 is one of the easier f/block gaps and he cant escape counterpokes if you block the second hit low.
This is true but laming people out when you have the life lead is key in reborn. The fact that the 2nd hit of f34 knocks you far away on hit is more beneficial than people give it credit for.
 
Also, TP only jails from B14 xx TP. Everything else can be neutral crouched.

This gives him opportunity to blow up opponents trying to neutral crouch/ interrupt. However, this means its the only string he can use to TPC close without getting blown up.

I can tell most of you didn't lab anything. TP nerf hit Reborn really hard.
 
This is true but laming people out when you have the life lead is key in reborn. The fact that the 2nd hit of f34 knocks you far away on hit is more beneficial than people give it credit for.
Right, so what about situations where you don't have the life lead? Read my post above. I explained how his pressure was hurt do to TP nerf.
 
For him the neutral is reset and he can approach as normal. He literally negates strike/throw doing this.

Even SR at close range can't really get people off him (on block of course). DS is pretty punishable at close distance, or even resets someone's stagger game. He actually is in pretty big danger when challenged in his face.

Not the place he wants to live.
Well DS isn't really a GTFO move. It controls space, and is primarily an anti-air/ whiff punisher. I also, understand that D1 xx DS is a thing lol. It works against counterpokes.

You're right SR doesn't have the luxury of TPC away, but you can only approach SR grounded.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Well DS isn't really a GTFO move. It controls space, and is primarily an anti-air/ whiff punisher. I also, understand that D1 xx DS is a thing lol. It works against counterpokes.

You're right SR doesn't have the luxury of TPC away, but you can only approach SR grounded.
What do you mean? Reborn can teleport on reaction to all jumps as well.

YOu can't approach or retreat from Scorpion by jumping. He owns the air.

Better offensive options and damage...
Are they better? F32 is punishable, f32 DS gives his turn back. f3 naked gives up his turn. b1 (string) gives up his turn. They all put him in the position he doesn't want... and that is playing counter attack.
i'll concede that if SR touches his opponent he'll get back more for sure. It is a chunky damage monkey.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
This isn't entirely true. Free corner escape using Jump back xx TP doesn't work. You can poke him whether he cancels or not. If you're on point you can punish full combo. That was one of the best parts about Reborn, especially in MU's vs Jacqui, Sonya, etc.
Pretty sure i said except go out on the limb with "time to mix" tp cancels, its a reactionary tool rather than guess on either someone will respect it or not.
 
What do you mean? Reborn can teleport on reaction to all jumps as well.

YOu can't approach or retreat from Scorpion by jumping. He owns the air.



Are they better? F32 is punishable, f32 DS gives his turn back. f3 naked gives up his turn. b1 (string) gives up his turn. They all put him in the position he doesn't want... and that is playing counter attack.
i'll concede that if SR touches his opponent he'll get back more for sure. It is a chunky damage monkey.
You have Kung Lao whose Dive Kick will beat TP anti-air. DS is much faster and easier way to deal with characters who can alter jumps.

The fact that F32 is punishable makes it good. why would I try to interrupt a stagger when I could wait and get full combo anyway? It's so much easier to use 21 staggers in SR because of that.
 
Agreed, I do not understand why people think the teleport change was that big of a deal. He is still completely fine unless you are just being insane with predictable teleports, in which case you would have still been losing pre patch.
Because probably most of the Reborn players used the tele cancel as a free pressure and get in and mix tool. Free throws, free walk back punish after TLC, free fuckup... Of course it was not free but most case on average level was.

I do not think that D1 into Tele is the only thing why Reborn players are very disappointed. :)

I agree most of the oppinions above.
Reborn can not counter poke and pressure up close as much as Searing Rage (D1xxdeath spin, F32 threat, 21 2+4) but he can tele away in that situations "for free" even after a D1xx away tele so he does not even want to be up close.

Searing Rage is better up close can stagger a bit better - but he can not escape either so he needs to stay there. :D

Well I see the balance and the playstyle difference between the 2 variations very clearly! And might be very good combo in different match ups.
 
Because probably most of the Reborn players used the tele cancel as a free pressure and get in and mix tool. Free throws, free walk back punish after TLC, free fuckup... Of course it was not free but most case on average level was.

I do not think that D1 into Tele is the only thing why Reborn players are very disappointed. :)

I agree most of the oppinions above.
Reborn can not counter poke and pressure up close as much as Searing Rage (D1xxdeath spin, F32 threat, 21 2+4) but he can tele away in that situations "for free" even after a D1xx away tele so he does not even want to be up close.

Searing Rage is better up close can stagger a bit better - but he can not escape either so he needs to stay there. :D

Well I see the balance and the playstyle difference between the 2 variations very clearly! And might be very good combo in different match ups.
In the corner Reborn has no advantage over SR now that TP can be neutral crouched. He can't TPC Away either.

TPC Away is only useful outside the corner.
 
In the corner Reborn has no advantage over SR now that TP can be neutral crouched. He can't TPC Away either.

TPC Away is only useful outside the corner.
Yes I know. Better than nothing against 9-11F MID characters. :D
But sooner or later you can not really escape from up close battle... And that situations SR might perform a bit better.

So overall I still prefer SR over Reborn. And to be honest that "grounded" play is more footsie/neutral skill oriented than always teleporting away from the danger.
That's why I like playing SR and Cassie even more as it requires more fundamental (please do not kill me for that I know "Cassie is braineded no fundamental" same as Scorpion :D).

Teleport itself is a good shortcut for lot of things all in one (whiff punish, projectile punish, anti air) so it makes life and neutral a bit easier than without that. :)
But I have no problem with that. I do not really have the patience and endurance doing projectile war or just sucking against zoning all the time - that's why I always liked Scorpion in MKX as well.

And I was never that type of player who likes playing up close. :)
 
Also the guy didn't challenge a single f3 with a poke.
What's Scorp gonna do? KB you once and then get 80 damage every time you do the full string?

Now you just gotta watch for teleport on his strings and mash out a d3 or d4 to beat everything he can do from the cancel.
On top of that if you're 9-11f mid character you don't even have to respect Reborn's d1 anymore since cancelling into hellport from that does you nothing except eating a combo or poke.

At least SR can get people off his face with d1 xx df4 and can mix you with f3 into throw/d3/f34 or f32.

I don't want to play Reborn anymore because it's trash and I wish they had just put another variation in instead of soft deleting the variation.

Also I don't get what the fuck is up with that d4 nerf. Fuck that Pablo guy, he's mentally challenged.
I remember posting somewhere around here that with all the teleport complaints and anything they did to teleport would just hurt reborn specifically in the long run.
 
I remember posting somewhere around here that with all the teleport complaints and anything they did to teleport would just hurt reborn specifically in the long run.
He was fine before the patch. Didn't win any tournaments except for some online shit, was hardly ever seen in top 8 except for when Scar's Sonya got stuffed by FoxyGrandpa's Cassie and even there it was more like Foxy losing it than Scorpion winning it, just watch the last seconds of match three that was some buttfumble moment.

I'm very disappointed in NRS kneejerk nerfing a character and not giving him anything to compensate. I get all these scrubs crying about teleport, forcing their hand or whatever, but what the fuck why not make him better at neutral then if they don't want him to have neutral bypassing tools?

Instead they nerf his neutral by fucking with his d4?

Man whatever I'll keep collecting scrub tears online, it's just shit knowing you're playing a character that could never win a tournament unless the participants are your family.

Just fucking ass that a good character gets nerfed just because a lot of people play him. I tell you if every second guy online would play Baraka he'd have gotten the nerfstick too for no reason.
 
He was fine before the patch. Didn't win any tournaments except for some online shit, was hardly ever seen in top 8 except for when Scar's Sonya got stuffed by FoxyGrandpa's Cassie and even there it was more like Foxy losing it than Scorpion winning it, just watch the last seconds of match three that was some buttfumble moment.

I'm very disappointed in NRS kneejerk nerfing a character and not giving him anything to compensate. I get all these scrubs crying about teleport, forcing their hand or whatever, but what the fuck why not make him better at neutral then if they don't want him to have neutral bypassing tools?

Instead they nerf his neutral by fucking with his d4?

Man whatever I'll keep collecting scrub tears online, it's just shit knowing you're playing a character that could never win a tournament unless the participants are your family.

Just fucking ass that a good character gets nerfed just because a lot of people play him. I tell you if every second guy online would play Baraka he'd have gotten the nerfstick too for no reason.
at this point I'm just convinced nrs doesn't know how to balance properly and just takes easy way out balances
 
He was fine before the patch. Didn't win any tournaments except for some online shit, was hardly ever seen in top 8 except for when Scar's Sonya got stuffed by FoxyGrandpa's Cassie and even there it was more like Foxy losing it than Scorpion winning it, just watch the last seconds of match three that was some buttfumble moment.

I'm very disappointed in NRS kneejerk nerfing a character and not giving him anything to compensate. I get all these scrubs crying about teleport, forcing their hand or whatever, but what the fuck why not make him better at neutral then if they don't want him to have neutral bypassing tools?

Instead they nerf his neutral by fucking with his d4?

Man whatever I'll keep collecting scrub tears online, it's just shit knowing you're playing a character that could never win a tournament unless the participants are your family.

Just fucking ass that a good character gets nerfed just because a lot of people play him. I tell you if every second guy online would play Baraka he'd have gotten the nerfstick too for no reason.
I think tele cancel mixup and after TLC more mixup (walk back punish, D3, D1, S1, throw) in general was a big f*ck up.
It does just not really fit in a good fighting game in that form.
No matter of the high level play - not the TLC quality determined Scorpion's tournament results but in general the character (there are more safe more stable characters).

But they could have nerfed it on better way - with addig more recovery. That could "eliminate" the real f*ck up and keep it as a MID (which has benefit of punishing pokes). They did not want to keep this capability which is I think a mistake as almost every character can get an unsafe launcher after poke as a "anti counter poke" tool.
Scorpion (Reborn) can not even risk an unsafe launcher to earn respect while others can. SR can but with pretty bad risk/reward ratio. That made Scorpion even worse on the list as he is less scary up close (especially Reborn).
They balanced that way we need to accept it. If we want up close battle pick another char lol.

However I am not sure if Reborn players who used it for offensive/get in/pressure/mixup tool would not be also disappointed with the more recovery/keeping MID teleport version as they could not use it either (unless against noobs and in lag).

D4 nerf I dunno what to say. It is sux but D4 was pretty insane (and still it is) - so the trade off is the more recovery can not spam this move without consequences.

Was D4 -9 on block before the patch too (just the recovery less 5 frames)? Or was it -4 and nerfed also to -9?
-9 looks too minus to me I am surprised I did not realize it since release lol (I had no problem with that so far).
And was it only +14 on hit?
From max range D4 on hit the opponent can easily jump / walk back against a dash up F3 so on hit from good range even the pressure is not available which is sad. But from a bit closer range F3 works against jump too (but in that case even a 6-7F poke can stop Scorpion which is insane after D4).
I remember better pressure capability before nerf but maybe I am just wrong.

Only good news that you can easily hit confirm D4 into something. :)

I checked Sub Zero as he has probably identical poke. They have the exactly same frame data... which looks fair (and sub zero was not nerfed!)

D1 is nerfed too by 1 frame... but it is less noticable. The point is he got a bit weaker pokes.
 
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Oh I just compared frame data based on the "frame data thread" lol nice that we still have.

So that more recovery means less plus on hit , more minus on block.
D1 was +10 and -3 (and became +9 and -4)
D4 was +19 and -4 (and became +14 and -9)

Ok not I am the real stupid who felt the discomfort after D4 LOL.

From further range on D4 hit Scorpion can not really pressure with F3 (with dash up he loses precious frame) and dash up for a throw in case of respect anymore.

OMG in the lab I just see a big push back after D4 on hit I can not even dash up and throw anymore!
I am sure it was possible before nerf as I did it many times (after got respect with F3).
Even if D4 hits from point blank F3 can not reach so no jail at all. And even from point blank D4 on hit can not dash up and reach with throw.
What's the benefit of D4 outside of stopping opponent coming to you then can not really advance? (the same applies to Sub Zero as well though just I do not care about Sub Zero now). That looks pretty weak now from far range. From closer even D3 hits which is better. :)

Now that makes sense why I suck after patch when I try to pressure or advance after D4 lol. I felt that something was wrong just I did not know what it was... I skipped 1 month playing I thought just my skills disappeared... Well not just that.

That hurts my mood right now. I got to sleep instead. :)
 
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Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
The TP being a high does hurt his whiff punishing/projectile countering a bit. At least it seems that way to me when I'm playing I can't counter as easily as before. If timing isn't perfect they will just neutral duck on reaction and get a free punish. At least before they had to BLOCK during recovery. Maybe it's just me but sometimes it feels like just HOLDING down even if you haven't fully recovered yet is enough for the game to consider you to be neutral crouched even if there is no way you are yet. Anyone else having this issue or just me, lol.
 
The TP being a high does hurt his whiff punishing/projectile countering a bit. At least it seems that way to me when I'm playing I can't counter as easily as before. If timing isn't perfect they will just neutral duck on reaction and get a free punish. At least before they had to BLOCK during recovery. Maybe it's just me but sometimes it feels like just HOLDING down even if you haven't fully recovered yet is enough for the game to consider you to be neutral crouched even if there is no way you are yet. Anyone else having this issue or just me, lol.
That should not be that way you say. Duck should not be faster than block at all.
Block or not does not matter in the case if you mistime (=late) the punish. Both should be punished. :D

With Reborn you could tele cancel into throw/pressure against projectiles as well if you were not sure that you time it properly (or you knew that it is not punishable but went in with TLC as it was minus enough to afraid of it): now it is gone as opponent can duck and poke any time if he see you are coming regardless of regular or high. So yes that possibility is nerfed = you need to punish properly!

There are characters with fast recovery projectiles where you really do not have too much time to react... that just sux. :)

And good news: even Cassie's low gun shot is punishable with teleport. So whiff punish did not hurt directly due to the "HIGH". I do not know if there is any other projectile move which is not punishable.

Yes punishing pokes or other low profile normals might be not possible anymore. But you should be able to whiff punish pokes with B1 anyway not by teleport.
 
Can you still cancel teleports in Reborn? If so, then no, searing rage still isn't better. Take it from somebody who hates your character. Just use reborn.
Doesn't matter. He only has 1 string you have to respect his cancel from, which is B14 xx TPC close.

Any other move/ block string can immediately be interrupted with a string with no consequence. This means all of the characters with fast mids get a combo or free pressure. While other characters get a poke, and that's a free block string.

The Jacqui MU for example got worse. If you don't cancel with B14, she'll put F3 in your ass every single time.

B14 xx TP jails on block, so it blows up neutral crouch/ interrupts if he doesn't cancel.

Also, I need to mention there is counter play to this nerf, but it's not in Scorpion's favor.