Is NinjaKiller the best Mortal Kombat X player? Podcast discussion.

[CrimsonShadow]

I am not criticizing the fact that Nina Killer is playing the game. He can play Mortal Kombat X until 2030 for all I care. My question is, why did he upload the series? Sonic Fox has most likely not played the game for several months. What does beating a player who no longer plays the game prove? Sonic Fox has obviously dedicated the vast majority of his time to Dragon Fighter Z and a little bit to Injustice 2.

As far as the question in the title is concerned, I ask "Who really cares?" He won nothing when everyone played the game and there was a lot of money on the line. I am not saying he is a bad player. I am not saying he is a "necro" as many others do. I am not even saying Sonic Fox would destroy him in his prime. Just please stop this blind fanaticism about a dead game.

People on this podcast told you that Sonic called him out, though. So the progression is as follows:

Sonic says he'll mop him --> People get excited for the set --> They play --> People want to see the set --> He uploads the set

Imo this should be pretty easy to understand.

 

[Roy Arkon]

I think part of the issue is that there are two definitions of dead game:

1) Literally dead

This is the one the FGC keeps trying to push on games that aren't actually dead. The situation when nobody plays a game anymore and there's no real interest among anyone. Imo MKX is very much alive in this sense -- it's not technically dead.

2) 'Dead' as in, not the focus of a significant number of top-level tournament players

This is the 'dead' that people usually refer to MKX as. It doesn't mean that nobody plays the game; it means that the vast majority of the best players we have, are beyond the point where focusing on grinding MKX is worth their time and energy. Even if there are some good players playing, there are not enough great ones for a viable competitive scene, and many of the ones who used to play just play for fun now when they enter.

----------

The fact of the matter is that this community is not yet big enough to play two games in the second sense -- to have them both be vibrant, well-supported with a good-sized roster of top-level tournament players grinding and trying to be at their best in both.

Although people like to talk about the same community playing two games, the truth is that the same community *never* plays two games. We harken back to the days when a good tourney-level player could compete in several top-level games alone. Those days are done.

When USF4 and Marvel both hit maturity, they had a completely different crew of top players for both games. Flocker KBR and Chris G vs. Infiltration/Xian/Kazunoko/Snake Eyez/etc. Smash 4 and Melee are two different communities. It doesn't matter who makes the games, they are not the same people. Most of the crossover is in random entrants, not the full community.

If MKX wants to build it's own community, that's cool. But it doesn't make sense for any top player to be grinding it out in both if they're trying to have a tourney career. Splitting your focus is what loses you the edge against other players (and even Sonic hasn't been immune to this in INJ2).

Regarding the definitions of the term "dead", I get what you're saying. However, it's not just about who plays it, it's also about the passion and the attention that the game gets overall. As with the examples I gave, MKX is played to a big degree both offline and online in a competitive manner. Is it at the same level and rate before IJ2 was released? No, but the focus is still clearly there. And that can also be related to the topic of different communities playing different games. Yes our overall competitive community is very small by comparison, but all of the split sub-communities of the games from other companies had to start somewhere, and it seems that the foundations for that is starting to be built up for MKX with the likes of Ninja and others. Like you said in the thread about the scene, it takes time for a scene to grow, and it seems that now it starts to grow beyond the boundaries we were used to, both from NRS/WB and player base.

So yes, Sonic and the rest of the pros aren't there ATM, that's cool and understandable, but the foundations can be built by other people, who might even learn from what those pros did back in the day with MKX and keep it all going.

And so, the boundaries are being expanded and the foundations are being built.

 

[M2Dave]

Why shouldn't he, people wanted to see it. He cleared it with fox. The set was ace he did insane shit, it's not cherry picked.

Jesus it's not bad enough people getting pointlessly butthurt over shit that happens to them, people have to get butthurt for others for no good reason. Sonicfox doesn't care.

I see absolutely no justification in what you're saying if Sonic fox cleared him to upload.

Do not project your blind fanaticism onto me. Considering how dominant Sonic Fox has been, any time he loses is a good time as long as the circumstances matter. The circumstances for this online series have no meaning for very obvious reasons. I was asked to comment on this topic on the podcast, which I did, and the endgame is lots of Ninja Killer fans who are "butt hurt" about my opinion.

Edit:

People on this podcast told you that Sonic called him out, though. So the progression is as follows:

Sonic says he'll mop him --> People get excited for the set --> They play --> People want to see the set --> He uploads the set

Imo this should be pretty easy to understand.

Sonic Fox calling someone out is not news. Besides, the point is that he does not play the game. He most likely has not touched the game in months.

Your Sonic Fox ass kissing is always on point so I am surprised you are not coming to his defense, especially when in the past you have made claims that the only reason he did not win certain Injustice 2 tournaments was because of his primary focus on Dragon Ball Fighter Z.

 

[Wigy]

Do not project your blind fanaticism onto me. Considering how dominant Sonic Fox has been, any time he loses is a good time as long as the circumstances matter. The circumstances for this online series have no meaning for very obvious reasons. I was asked to comment on this topic on the podcast, which I did, and the endgame is lots of Ninja Killer fans who are "butt hurt" about my opinion.

This totally ignored everything I said and you just throw around nonsense statements.

Why shouldn't he have uploaded?

For the record I think I'd heard of ninja once before your podcast. Not a fan in the slightest, so stop trying to deflect.

 

[M2Dave]

This totally ignored everything I said and you just throw around nonsense statements.

Why shouldn't he have uploaded? Do explain.

Sonic Fox has not played the game in many months while Ninja Killer plays the game religiously. Does anyone in the fighting game community sincerely believe that Sonic Fox would be losing 30:3 to any opponent in any fighting game if he took the game seriously? Again, this series proves absolutely nothing.

 

[Wigy]

Sonic Fox has not played the game in many months while Ninja Killer plays the game religiously. Does anyone in the fighting game community sincerely believe that Sonic Fox would be losing 30:3 to any opponent in any fighting game if he took the game seriously? Again, this series proves absolutely nothing.

1: Sonic agreed to let him upload so clearly doesn't care
2: people wanted to see it
3: nobody but idiots thinks this has any real weighting in who's the 'better player'

Why does it matter. Like what are you actually opposed to. If the person he's playing against doesn't care if it's uploaded then I have no idea what you're bitching about. Your train of thought makes no sense. Everyone else on the podcast tried to explain the same thing.

Is the community just not allowed to do anything that might hurt a top players ego? The fuck.

 

[God Confirm]

So he's not allowed to upload the set, that everyone wanted to see, and both players wanted to upload, displaying the highest level of play currently in MKX, all because M2Dave is salty that he was wrong

just. stop.

 

[Jynks]

He won nothing when everyone played the game and there was a lot of money on the line. I am not saying he is a bad player. I am not saying he is a "necro" as many others do.

I actually do not mind the term "necro".. I just do not think it is derogatory. There IS a difference between someone playing during the competitive time of the games life and someone who is not and I think it is fair enough for that to be pointed out. I just do not think this distinction is a bad thing.

I know that if I was playing MKx and I beat SonicFox I would be hella excited.. no matter the reasons. Love or hate him, he is kinda a God in the FGC, particularly as he is branching out into other more popular titles.

I just think Ninja and this entire focus on him is the best thing to happen to MKx in ages, beyond the new online event being run. People are talking about MKx and the cash is getting old pros to turn up.. this is all awesome and exactly what a lot of us always wish did happen.. as in the game having a life beyond the NRS development cycle.

What Ninja should do, imo, and what I would do if I was him would be to join in MK11's Online Pro Scene. Stream.Me and @Mr Aquaman has shown with Kombat Kup and War Of the Gods that a real competitive online scene can work. There is NO excuse for Online Warriors anymore. Everyone should be playing in the coming Stream.Me "Online Local". So Ninja will have the opportunity, if he wishes, to show up in MK11.

.... and I tell you what... that is something I want to see.

 

[Parasurama]

I have been watching Ninja Killa... This guy is legit good. He adapts and has great execution. Why do people get upset if he is considered the best in the game 'now' especially if they not currently playing the game. As TB says- he is playing the game he loves or wanta to play . That's how games started. He has found new Liu Kang tech. Power to him. True FGC language is with action so if someone else wants to be the best 'now'- go challenge the guy.

 

[Slips]

Good show guys. Fun stuff.

As for growth in the FGC, I think fighting games still have too big of a barrier for casual players to get into. The games that have huge viewership are easy to play and only understanding the nuances is what causes the skill gaps. A casual or LoL player or FPS player doesn't have to worry about dragon punch motions or learning awkwardly timed button presses for strings. I think Smash and Tekken are doing well now because the nuances are in the movement and most of the moves and basic combos are fairly easy to execute.

I also think devs are doing a disservice to the hardcore players by lowering the ceiling when they should really be lowering the floor.

Agree with Tom about NinjaKilla. It's not like the meta for MKX de-evolved. The people that kept playing added on or caught up at the very least. Props to NinjaKilla for making things interesting again in a 'dead' game.

 

[God Confirm]

the fact that this sort of salt about him exists goes to show how pathetic some members of this scene are

 

[SaladPlateLover]

Not a serious contribution to the discussion since im out of touch i just find the circumstance of someone named ninjakilla (sounds like a 10 year old alias) making a huge deal out of beating a retired player who also happens to be a furry, to somehow be comedic

 

[Parasurama]

Not a serious contribution to the discussion since im out of touch i just find the circumstance of someone named ninjakilla (sounds like a 10 year old alias) making a huge deal out of beating a retired player who also happens to be a furry, to somehow be comedic

What does he being a furry have anything to do with that. To be honest I don't really understand why people are furries but he got the skills.

 

[CmC_HAt]

Nope.

I'm serious, if you travel here someday, call us, (53)53962904, we will show where is the real potential of the FGC

 

[TheGabStandard]

Good episode overall guys.

As for the NinjaKilla thing, unless there is something I'm not aware of is it not just two guys having a set in a game that they both enjoy playing? Does it really have to be more than that?

 

[Swindle]

I'm serious, if you travel here someday, call us, (53)53962904, we will show where is the real potential of the FGC

I appreciate the offer, but I don’t enjoy being molested in foreign lands.

 

[Ragnarök Tyr]

After watching his response it seems more like he'd rather be left alone.

Considering he streams to YT daily which ofc means uploads I don't see the issue with the set being broadcast.

We know Sonic hasn't played in months, if not years since he has said in public he does not like MKX. However, given how high profile it was, it was bound to be uploaded regardless of who won.

 

[Error404]

I'll take it one step further. Ninjakilla is the best right now . Why would it be a problem? You guys say the game is dead and you don't care. So what's all this salt about?
If you think he is not the best and care so much, then beat him . If you really don't care you can always just enjoy the set . Jeez.

 

[Deep33]

The bum pro klan is scared that they will never win another tournament and lose all that money (they could possibly win otherwise). Hence, the bum pro klan is scared. They'd have to work a lot harder and Git a lot more Gudder. No more easy money with broke ass characters chumps. The bar got raised for MK11 you bum scrubs.

 

[Matix218]

Not a serious contribution to the discussion since im out of touch i just find the circumstance of someone named ninjakilla (sounds like a 10 year old alias) making a huge deal out of beating a retired player who also happens to be a furry, to somehow be comedic

According to everything I have seen and what the podcast guys said Ninjakilla was NOT making a huge deal out of it at all actually. Just his fans were.

 

[Matix218]

Good show guys. Fun stuff.

As for growth in the FGC, I think fighting games still have too big of a barrier for casual players to get into. The games that have huge viewership are easy to play and only understanding the nuances is what causes the skill gaps. A casual or LoL player or FPS player doesn't have to worry about dragon punch motions or learning awkwardly timed button presses for strings. I think Smash and Tekken are doing well now because the nuances are in the movement and most of the moves and basic combos are fairly easy to execute.

I also think devs are doing a disservice to the hardcore players by lowering the ceiling when they should really be lowering the floor.

Agree with Tom about NinjaKilla. It's not like the meta for MKX de-evolved. The people that kept playing added on or caught up at the very least. Props to NinjaKilla for making things interesting again in a 'dead' game.

Agreed about you saying the MKX meta didn't de-evolve. If anything the set between sonic and ninjakilla proved this because I think we can all agree that even a rusty/out of practice sonic could crush a de-evolved meta mkx player given that he was the absolute best when the meta was supposedly at it's peak. Since he got destroyed by ninja it shows to me that the meta has actually continued to evolve after sonic and most of the other top tournament players moved on to new games and sonic was simply not aware of the current meta, or at very least the current meta regarding liu kang and how it evolved since sonic quit mkx.

Also, side note, are we going to be getting anymore Slips & Hippo podcast? I would love to hear you guys discuss this topic.

 

[Roy Arkon]

After watching his response it seems more like he'd rather be left alone.

Considering he streams to YT daily which ofc means uploads I don't see the issue with the set being broadcast.

We know Sonic hasn't played in months, if not years since he has said in public he does not like MKX. However, given how high profile it was, it was bound to be uploaded regardless of who won.

Wait hold the phone, Sonic doesn't like MKX? When? And why? I thought he loved the game, not just because he kept winning but because it suited his style.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Good show guys. Fun stuff.

As for growth in the FGC, I think fighting games still have too big of a barrier for casual players to get into. The games that have huge viewership are easy to play and only understanding the nuances is what causes the skill gaps. A casual or LoL player or FPS player doesn't have to worry about dragon punch motions or learning awkwardly timed button presses for strings. I think Smash and Tekken are doing well now because the nuances are in the movement and most of the moves and basic combos are fairly easy to execute.

I also think devs are doing a disservice to the hardcore players by lowering the ceiling when they should really be lowering the floor.

Agree with Tom about NinjaKilla. It's not like the meta for MKX de-evolved. The people that kept playing added on or caught up at the very least. Props to NinjaKilla for making things interesting again in a 'dead' game.

Games like Lol and DotA actually have pretty high barriers to entry, though. There's a ton to learn, and there are mechanics like last-hitting and whatnot that require specific timing and are pretty awkward for new players to adjust to at first.

But the difference is, they let players who aren't good just play against other players at their level. Because of that, they can run around and just have fun not knowing anything, because they have an equal chance of winning against other players who also know nothing.

The skill ceiling on something like Overwatch is much higher than most fighting games, but they're not going to throw somebody who can barely shoot up against Dafran just because. They'll end up just playing against other people who can't aim, and they'll play the game at that level and have fun.

 

[Wigy]

Games like Lol and DotA actually have pretty high barriers to entry, though. There's a ton to learn, and there are mechanics like last-hitting and whatnot that require specific timing and are pretty awkward for new players to adjust to at first.

But the difference is, they let players who aren't good just play against other players at their level. Because of that, they can run around and just have fun not knowing anything, because they have an equal chance of winning against other players who also know nothing.

The skill ceiling on something like Overwatch is much higher than most fighting games, but they're not going to throw somebody who can barely shoot up against Dafran just because. They'll end up just playing against other people who can't aim, and they'll play the game at that level and have fun.

Hahaha if only every match wasn't Smurf city in their team and boosted players who one trick sym in yours

 

[shezy]

Sonic became to arrogant just like perfect legend the way he did beat pl 13-0 and him also got 13 streak his reign is fading