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Question Is neutral ducking skillfull

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers
Mk11 does a lot of cool things with defensive options. I dont feel that Neutral ducking is not one of them.

In my opinion ND is equivalent to blocking making imperative to do, it doesnt feel optional the way the rest of the defense tools are currently. We have all been in those situations where we know beyond the shadow of doubt that jump in kick is going straight into throw 100% of the time you will ND
So that's my question since you must ND do you feel the hype is stolen by how rudimentary and mundane it is?
 
Mk11 does a lot of cool things with defensive options. I dont feel that Neutral ducking is not one of them.

In my opinion ND is equivalent to blocking making imperative to do, it doesnt feel optional the way the rest of the defense tools are currently. We have all been in those situations where we know beyond the shadow of doubt that jump in kick is going straight into throw 100% of the time you will ND
So that's my question since you must ND do you feel the hype is stolen by how rudimentary and mundane it is?
What character do you play? Just curious.
 

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers
Well are you being predictable with your throws? I play Raiden as well. He has good mids, so you shouldn’t be getting blown up by neutral crouch often.

It’s a hard read though. High risk high reward stuff.
That's my thing, I'm not sure the read is as hard as you think. Im speaking from an observer's perspective. Consider you know the throws coming we've all been in those situations. In that exact moment when your most optimal is only 1 thing I dont think it's really hype, more like up we knew that throw was gonna get ate by d2 or something.
 

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
It's a high risk high/high reward defensive option vs. the 50/50 strike throw meta. You can hold block and scout the tech (which itself is a mixup) or you can duck and full combo, but risk getting full combo'd yourself. I think its a pretty good tradeoff.

We saw TM beat Deoxys in the Geras mirror at Evo just by completely out-reading him by blowing up throws and staggers using neutral ducks and jumps. I thought it was a really great set.
 
That's my thing, I'm not sure the read is as hard as you think. Im speaking from an observer's perspective. Consider you know the throws coming we've all been in those situations. In that exact moment when your most optimal is only 1 thing I dont think it's really hype, more like up we knew that throw was gonna get ate by d2 or something.
It’s a hard read because your opponent can read that you’re going for neutral crouch and blow you up full combo for it.

A scrub might get lucky a few times mashing, but there are ways around that.
 
I'm not exaggerating-I played against people with Johnny whom I was able to land D1 into nutpunch 4 or 5 times in a row. Even high ranking players. The second I stopped using the nutpunch and wanted to throw something else, I'd get hit by a D2.
If I know my opponent is mashing D2s, I'll use F4 a lot. Sometimes, I'm able to land 7 or 8 F4s with Cage in a row, only to find that when I stop, my opponent is still neutral ducking, fishing for a cheap D2. It's crazy how using excessive counter measures in this game doesn't deter players from mashing.
Because of neutral ducking and lack of mixups, mids are really the only thing that matters. Tier lists are pretty much based around whose mid staggers are better. Then again, top tiers have mixups along with everything else including mids. You can't really blame people for tier-whoring when every one else sucks major ass.
Some characters don't even have mids. It's crazy!
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
You supported my point noob has 11 strings 8 of them are highs come on man,
Noob has a lot of high buttons. So do other characters. 3 of Cetrion’s good buttons all start high as well (s1,S2,f1) then she has a mid and a low and she is considered a character with good buttons. As long as you have at least 1 decent mid/low your opponent can’t just neutral crouch against you and not expect to get blown up for it.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Raiden primarily
Well are you being predictable with your throws? I play Raiden as well. He has good mids, so you shouldn’t be getting blown up by neutral crouch often.

It’s a hard read though. High risk high reward stuff.
Gotta second this Flames. Raiden is one of the last characters that you should be getting blown up by throws. If you're at advantage, and are getting D2'd too often, next time go for B1 (11F mid) or B3 (16F). Both are combo starters and after eating a couple they'll stop auto-ducking. If somehow they continue to duck, then just keep full combo punishing them.
 
If my opponent has no good/safe mids (Kano), no meter to deal big damage (Noob), no big damage in general (Jade), or can get wakeup pressure off a throw (Geras), I might be inclined to neutral duck. That's not really a read though, it's just making sure the risk/reward is more in my favour.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Mk11 does a lot of cool things with defensive options. I dont feel that Neutral ducking is not one of them.

In my opinion ND is equivalent to blocking making imperative to do, it doesnt feel optional the way the rest of the defense tools are currently. We have all been in those situations where we know beyond the shadow of doubt that jump in kick is going straight into throw 100% of the time you will ND
So that's my question since you must ND do you feel the hype is stolen by how rudimentary and mundane it is?
To stop opponents from neutral ducking, use mids into launchers more often even if you get punished for using something unsafe.
This post makes me think you rely on throws and highs too often.

And to answer your original question: Neutral Ducking is no more skillful than using mids to blow it up.
Skill is not the use of a single method but the understanding of all methods at your disposal and the correct use thereof.
All options.
 

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers
We out here really saying Noob has bad mids?
Yo is saying noob has a shit ton of highs saying he has bad mids? Seriously all I'm saying he has a fuck ton of highs hes bad because of that specific reason no one argues this what are we doing lol
 

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers
To stop opponents from neutral ducking, use mids into launchers more often even if you get punished for using something unsafe.
This post makes me think you rely on throws and highs too often.

And to answer your original question: Neutral Ducking is no more skillful than using mids to blow it up.
Skill is not the use of a single method but the understanding of all methods at your disposal and the correct use thereof.
All options.
I wasnt really arguing from the position I get ducked. Everything you said is right
 

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
Yo is saying noob has a shit ton of highs saying he has bad mids? Seriously all I'm saying he has a fuck ton of highs hes bad because of that specific reason no one argues this what are we doing lol
A character having a ton of highs is not a problem if they also have good mids. If you're getting poked/d2'd out of stuff, that's a you problem. Conditioning is a thing.