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Question - Jax Is Jax one of the most "underused" characters?

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
I'd like to disagree with this, at least from my own experience. I'm trash at this game (I've only picked my copy about a month ago) and fighters in general, but when I pick Jax everything becomes so much easier against players much better thanmyself.
I'm very glad that you're enjoying your time playing Jax, i for one look at jax and see some hard matchups, one of them was my main SZ, to be able to overcome them you need to know what your doing, not just the basics but achieve a level of competence with the character.
That why loyalists like @karaokelove can go toe to toe with someone of even skill despite a bad matchup.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
I'm very glad that you're enjoying your time playing Jax, i for one look at jax and see some hard matchups, one of them was my main SZ, to be able to overcome them you need to know what your doing, not just the basics but achieve a level of competence with the character.
That why loyalists like @karaokelove can go toe to toe with someone of even skill despite a bad matchup.
I think I have an unusual outlook on Jax's MUs, probably because I'm more of a Pumped Up player than a Wrestler player. That IA Ground Pound gets him out of a lot of sticky situations that Wrestler and HW have a difficult time with, such as Clone setups in the corner. I also haven't really played enough high-level Mileenas to have had much trouble with that MU, other than getting dismantled by @Pig Of The Hut when I was first learning Jax.

A lot of people say the strong zoners (HQT, Full Auto, etc) aren't bad matchups because once you get a knockdown, they can't get up. This is mostly true, but getting that knockdown can be a nightmare for Jax, especially if they get a life-lead. Jax's armored 10-frame dash punch was mentioned as a "get in for free" option, but it's really not. If it's ducked, full combo punish. If it's blocked, some characters can punish it. Best case scenario, you blow a bar of meter, deal a small chunk of damage, and get a soft knockdown; now the zoner is full screen again. Overhead punch is higher risk/reward, but also has less range. Plus, HQT recovers too quickly to punish his zoning and Jacqui's zoning breaks armor (though at least Jax can d1d2 to advance on her).
 

MrProfDrPepper

NRS, Guilty Gear, and KI, the holy trinity
No chance he is top5 atm.
I honestly have a really REALLY hard time believing that. Yeah we have really powerful characters in the game right now like alien, takeda and Mileena, but I think jax can stand right beside them, he has the tools to play any way you want with 3 equally good variations. You want to be a zoner? Sure he can do that. Maybe not the best zoning in the game but it is still effective, you want to do rushdown? He can definitely do that, you want to play footsies? Yeah he has the tools to do that as well. He is an incredible character. Before alien came out and Mileena and takeda got buffed I honestly believe he was top 1.
 

Tweedy

Noob
I know there can be an elitist attitude on here at times, when execution is referenced, but I think doing Jax's optimal combos on crouching hitboxes, is pretty hard.

Go into practice mode, set yourself in the corner, put the opponent on duck, do regular bf2d, F21, 11, F212, 124 xx gotcha grab. Maybe on og omg fighting game there was stuff that was much harder, but for this game at least, that's pretty difficult to do consistently. For me it's harder than D'vorah's "3 frame link", or even Lao's 3 frame link.

3b2 after a law cancel definitely isn't easy after 123 or B2. Idc if you hit it in practice mode a bunch. Run cancels become a lot harder in actual matches, at least IMO.
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
I know there can be an elitist attitude on here at times, when execution is referenced, but I think doing Jax's optimal combos on crouching hitboxes, is pretty hard.

Go into practice mode, set yourself in the corner, put the opponent on duck, do regular bf2d, F21, 11, F212, 124 xx gotcha grab. Maybe on og omg fighting game there was stuff that was much harder, but for this game at least, that's pretty difficult to do consistently. For me it's harder than D'vorah's "3 frame link", or even Lao's 3 frame link.

3b2 after a law cancel definitely isn't easy after 123 or B2. Idc if you hit it in practice mode a bunch. Run cancels become a lot harder in actual matches, at least IMO.
Lol and i did the easy one.
She was too low to even go to the optimal combo. Hence me not trying.
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
So what's your point, Indecisive? Are you agreeing with me or no? I'm confused.

@RM Indecisive
Was just showing an example of it with the game doing it on record. Showing that you have to change the timing depending on if they crouch block or stand block. Which is fucked up. Its technically execution but i feel like its something that was not meant to be intended.
 

Down 2

Noob
As a jax player I have to say he has been in the shadows some what and has remained fundamentally the same since the beginning and that's what I love about him. He's a very solid top 10 character who's well rounded but he gets zoned out. Also screw the hard execution thing guys I've been playing Jax since day 1 and I can attest that jax's game plan and combos are very simple guys, just go to training mode with it for a little bit. I have sucky execution but I can hit his run cancels 9/10 times with a little practice.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
I know there can be an elitist attitude on here at times, when execution is referenced, but I think doing Jax's optimal combos on crouching hitboxes, is pretty hard.

Go into practice mode, set yourself in the corner, put the opponent on duck, do regular bf2d, F21, 11, F212, 124 xx gotcha grab. Maybe on og omg fighting game there was stuff that was much harder, but for this game at least, that's pretty difficult to do consistently. For me it's harder than D'vorah's "3 frame link", or even Lao's 3 frame link.

3b2 after a law cancel definitely isn't easy after 123 or B2. Idc if you hit it in practice mode a bunch. Run cancels become a lot harder in actual matches, at least IMO.
What % damage does that combo do? I always do 11 after overhead punch, not f21. Never had any trouble connecting, and I can get right up into the 40% meterless range.
 

Tweedy

Noob
123 xx overhead dash punch, F21, 11, F212, 124 xx gotcha grab does 39% in Wrestler.

If that's not optimal blame Ominous, that's what he told me lol.
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
123 xx overhead dash punch, F21, 11, F212, 124 xx gotcha grab does 39% in Wrestler.

If that's not optimal blame Ominous, that's what he told me lol.
Thats optimal/not optimal. If they are high enough you can do 124 Quad Slam. If you want better Knockdown you can do d1d2 OH dash Punch. Its preference.

In pumped up you do 11 12 Gotcha
 

Down 2

Noob
Okay after reading the conversations in this thread I will say that while jax's actual bnbs in the corner can be somewhat difficult at certain points, the way he combos makes hit confirming into a different combo if you mess up a timing is possible such as if you know you timed the f2,1,2 too high then you can just do d1,2, gotcha grab. if that's too hard for you then you can just do a freestyle corner combo that's easiest for you just do 11,11,11,12, gotcha grab(or command grab). It does barely less damage anymore but since you're in the corner you get another mixup so who cares.
 

Undeadjim

Green Lantern Corps.
Outside of optimal meterless corner combos (Overhead dash - F21,11,F212 - Ender) in Pumped up and Wrestler his exe is not to difficult. When people refer to the difficult execution its HW they're often referring too, stuff you don't even think about such as on block run cancels being frame perfect -3 or -2 to avoid reversal throw. Doing this 100% of the time and confirming 11s, F21s, 123s etc etc into 3B2 takes a lot of practice and is still difficult.

Also Jax is 100% not top 5.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
yeah jax isnt top 5, mileena, cage, alien, dvorah, takeda, kano and sonya are above him for sure.


also can someone explain how jax beats alien? i'd really like to know.
 

Osagri

Fear the blade of Osh-Tekk
yeah jax isnt top 5, mileena, cage, alien, dvorah, takeda, kano and sonya are above him for sure.


also can someone explain how jax beats alien? i'd really like to know.
I don't think jax beats her but full combo punishing regular flip helps a lot
 
11 for poking
12 for mixups
f2 for pressure
f3 for wiffpunish
b2 for oh
b3 for low and lowcrush (it does lowcrush, yes)
d1 interrupt
d12 for mindgames
d4 for footsies
3 for punishment
etc etc
most of that require hitconfirming. Nvm inputs like bf2d, dbf2b(wrestler) etc that are all over the place. If you think its easy you're fighting common sense here. Quad and instant pound is also hard btw, whether you argue it or not its a fact everyone will agree on.

And just compare him to everyone else
Johhny f3 for everything. d4 occasional poke/highcrush
Dvorah - see johhny
Kano - f2 for everything, d4 poke, b2,b3 for mixup
Kotal - b1 for everything, d1 fast poke, f1 wiffpunisher.
Jason - b1, b3, d1
and so on

Difficulty will make you drop things sometimes. Its just how it works. its easier to input db2 than bf2d. its easier to know range of 2 moves rather than 5 moves. Its easier to hitconfirm one move, than 5 moves etc. And no matter what you say or do you have more chance to drop confirm, combo or make a bad decision with Jax, than, say, Alien. So no matter how pro you think you are if you ever been to top8 at major you know difficulty IS a factor. Jupiter quit MK because he dropped crucial combo at evo for instance. As well as dropped combo cost him a spot in ESL finals.

And its not just difficulty but also time. Jax takes more time and does not offer particular advantage. So any top player will decide to use this time more effectively. Of course everyone can play Jax like you described but that wont get you far in tournaments.
Jupiter didn't drop a combo in esl he made a bad choice and whiffed a sweep. If he had just done 124 into anything that match against scar was over. I'd also like to point out that you don't need all of those moves listed above to be successful with jax. What normals and combos you need are based on how you decide to condition the opponent. It is one thing to say how hard it is to use jax and it's a whole different story fighting a jax that understands his options.
 
Jax is underused for sure,i fight him very rarely online (USA),mostly Wrestler then HW and least of all I counter PU.Basicaly i fight more Goro and Cyrax then Jax players.People find him cheap I guess due to his overheads,dash punches and 11 pressure,he can kill you fast and to a newbie he seems like crazy,yolo dick..which is true sometimes :)