Question - Jax Is Jax one of the most "underused" characters?

[TheGangstaFace]

Oh

I meant if you take a ratio of how good they are/how much they're used. I didn't mean #1 in general.

Ohhh my bad

 

[TheGangstaFace]

I'm talking Jax at the highest level. Take Heavy Weapons for instance. You can't get the most out of that variation without being able to nail those run cancels, and they aren't easy my friend. We've seen the best of the best screw them up. Also, one thing that gets me is having to press down for the midscreen overhead dash punch into combo. It's just aggravating. There are just other characters just as good as Jax that are easier to learn. It's just not worth the time unless you're a character loyalist.

His cancels are easy. Even when I picked him up I never used a Cancel character before and it was easy. Doing d+1, d+2 into tic throw is more of a bitch in wrestler if you ask me lol

 

[LaidbackOne]

This x100. Couldn't agree more. Also, the possibilities his 123 string opens up in wrestler are just too much. The only problem I have with this character is that all his mids are easily low profiled. Other than that he is amazing.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I kind of want to play Heavy Weapons.

 

[Undeadjim]

His cancels are easy. Even when I picked him up I never used a Cancel character before and it was easy. Doing d+1, d+2 into tic throw is more of a bitch in wrestler if you ask me lol

I played the character for a year and half and there are cancels that are super difficult and are some if not the hardest to confirm in match, not to mention his on block cancels have to be perfect to negate specific defense options, certain block strings can be made -3 if done frame perfect which means you can stop reversal throw as a defensive option which is huge.

Seeing and hit confirming things like 11 F21 32 into the 3b2 link in real time is extremely difficult, B2 into 3b2 is the hardest thing I've tried in this game due to the link and the timing for it (Feels 1 frame but its not smooth, you have to do the B2 RocketRC and wait like 10 frames for his head to real back)

The reason the 3B2 is so important is you can basically convert everything into half screen corner carry for 30% rather than 22%ish and no corner carry.

 

[HRshuvNStuff]

His cancels are easy. Even when I picked him up I never used a Cancel character before and it was easy. Doing d+1, d+2 into tic throw is more of a bitch in wrestler if you ask me lol[/QUOTE

His cancels are easy. Even when I picked him up I never used a Cancel character before and it was easy. Doing d+1, d+2 into tic throw is more of a bitch in wrestler if you ask me lol

Nah bro, I don't believe you just picked up Jax and immediately perfected those. Remember, training mode and match play are two different things.

 

[Belial]

Two things
- Has trouble with some of top tier guys (mileena mostly, but he is kinda easy to counterpick)
- One of the hardest characters in the game
I'll go into a bit of detail here
Jax is one of the few if not only character in the game which needs about whole movelist, while most characters only use 1-2 moves and 1-2 pokes. And you need to hitconfirm like crazy from every move as well. Add some of the hardest execution here with bf2d armor moves thats just hard to OS strings with, command throw/bazooka cancels/instant pounds etc. If you sum it up you can pick up 4 or 5 characters instead of Jax. And there is no question that its better to have more characters in high level mk.

So yeah, Jax is really, really good, but is hard to learn and easy to counter. Thats why its mainly used (by pros) as counterpick to demosonya.

 

[honeybooboo]

I think dab said it best. Jax is top tier if the current top 3 get nerfed

 

[RoboCop]

I legitimately don't get where all this "hard to learn" stuff is coming from. Heavy Weapons has some hard cancels, but Pumped Up and Wrestler are about as basic and straightforward as you can get. It's literally one run-cancel that is kind of tight; if you do it enough, you'll be able to land it even in the laggiest of matches (as my friend @The Slaj Jazz can attest to).

 

[Belial]

I legitimately don't get where all this "hard to learn" stuff is coming from. Heavy Weapons has some hard cancels, but Pumped Up and Wrestler are about as basic and straightforward as you can get. It's literally one run-cancel that is kind of tight; if you do it enough, you'll be able to land it even in the laggiest of matches (as my friend @The Slaj Jazz can attest to).

Execution wise Jax is one of the harder characters but like I posted above Jax needs about every move in his movelist where other characters are pretty straightforward. He is not just hard to execute, he is hard to play. Thats not the same thing.
Actually you sound sort of stubborn on this. You asked for reasons and you've been given plenty, yet you cast them aside altogether.

 

[Indecisive]

Jaxs execution isnt hard. The hardest thing he has is b2 law cancel stand 3. Getting 24% from pumped ups EX gotcha. and the last hit of ex quad slam. and 2 of the above dont really matter. 1% extra and 2% extra. My execution is shit and i dont have issues doing jax combos. Idk where the jax has hard execution thing came from. Unless its a reference to b3 law cancel stand which is hard as fuck.

 

[RoboCop]

Execution wise Jax is one of the harder characters but like I posted above Jax needs about every move in his movelist where other characters are pretty straightforward. He is not just hard to execute, he is hard to play. Thats not the same thing.
Actually you sound sort of stubborn on this. You asked for reasons and you've been given plenty, yet you cast them aside altogether.

Not really. I get everything else. His gaps can be exploited, absolutely (though pretty much only offline). His pressure can be low-profiled, yup. His mid-screen damage is nothing to brag about, sure (though I think it's perfectly adequate). But his difficulty? No, other than Heavy Weapons.

I also don't know what you mean about him needing his whole move-set (which is already a bit smaller than a lot of the cast). He gets almost all of his mileage out of f2, 1, b2, and b3 (and their extensions). That's 4 moves, plus his d1 and d4 which every character uses. Anything else he has is mostly situational and optional. I'd argue that his move-set makes him more versatile, not more difficult. He also doesn't have any difficult setups or gimmicks; everything he has is straightforward pressure, defense, and oki.

It's not a matter of being stubborn, it's a matter of not agreeing with the arguments about his difficulty. Everything else makes perfect sense.

 

[conqueror]

Its very hard to get around zoning with his 10frame safe armor dash, ikr
not to mention the fear of it becoming a overhead armor launcher

 

[Belial]

11 for poking
12 for mixups
f2 for pressure
f3 for wiffpunish
b2 for oh
b3 for low and lowcrush (it does lowcrush, yes)
d1 interrupt
d12 for mindgames
d4 for footsies
3 for punishment
etc etc
most of that require hitconfirming. Nvm inputs like bf2d, dbf2b(wrestler) etc that are all over the place. If you think its easy you're fighting common sense here. Quad and instant pound is also hard btw, whether you argue it or not its a fact everyone will agree on.

And just compare him to everyone else
Johhny f3 for everything. d4 occasional poke/highcrush
Dvorah - see johhny
Kano - f2 for everything, d4 poke, b2,b3 for mixup
Kotal - b1 for everything, d1 fast poke, f1 wiffpunisher.
Jason - b1, b3, d1
and so on

Difficulty will make you drop things sometimes. Its just how it works. its easier to input db2 than bf2d. its easier to know range of 2 moves rather than 5 moves. Its easier to hitconfirm one move, than 5 moves etc. And no matter what you say or do you have more chance to drop confirm, combo or make a bad decision with Jax, than, say, Alien. So no matter how pro you think you are if you ever been to top8 at major you know difficulty IS a factor. Jupiter quit MK because he dropped crucial combo at evo for instance. As well as dropped combo cost him a spot in ESL finals.

And its not just difficulty but also time. Jax takes more time and does not offer particular advantage. So any top player will decide to use this time more effectively. Of course everyone can play Jax like you described but that wont get you far in tournaments.

 

[Indecisive]

Jupiter wasnt at evo for MKX ever.
I forgot Instant air ground pound is hard as well.
I hate to ask this question since it sounds kinda fucked up but the people complaining about jax's execution do you even play Jax? or did you take him into the lab for 20 minutes and gave up cause you couldnt do a bfd motion or dbf


Also to answer the question yes i think jax is underplayed. more people should play him.

 

[Belial]

Jupiter wasnt at evo for MKX ever.
I forgot Instant air ground pound is hard as well.
I hate to ask this question since it sounds kinda fucked up but the people complaining about jax's execution do you even play Jax? or did you take him into the lab for 20 minutes and gave up cause you couldnt do a bfd motion or dbf

If you hate to ask why ask? Just to be a dick? I explained it all above in detail. numerous times also. read until you get the meaning.

 

[Indecisive]

If you hate to ask why ask? Just to be a dick? I explained it all above in detail. numerous times also. read until you get the meaning.

I hated to ask cause there was no way in asking it without sounding like a dick. I was curious to know how the jax has hard execution talk started. What you said could apply to multiple different characters not just jax at least thats how i see it. Also i feel jax does well against some of the top tiers and doesnt require that much time or effort. also the question wasnt towards you it was for everyone

 

[meanzuga]

I forgot about Goro, ha. Yeah, that one is very rough thanks to super armor. He has a lot of trouble getting in on HQT, thanks to the speed and safety of the zoning. He can't use d1d2 or MB.Dash Punch to get in, and Predator can out-footsie him all day. From my experience, this is his worst MU.

Mileena can be rough, but I think Jax has the tools necessary to punish her TP. If he connects a d2, he can combo into f21 for a nice chunk of meterless damage and corner-carry. His b3~MB.Gotcha breaks every armored wakeup option she has.

[Edit] What is Punchwalk on block? I can't remember, but Jax might be able to punish it with his 6-frame standing 1 (assuming Goro doesn't just go into another MB.Punchwalk).

HQT aint a bad mu cause he cannot get up when knocked down.

Also to your list i'd like to add he has a flashparry of sorts (not as good as kano's though)

Lol at the "jax is hard to play". I main HW jax too and I know this is seriously not true. There's nothing in-depth about jabbing all day because you can, strong stagger game, strong oki, strong corner damage, and strong corner carry

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Space and mix

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

I still think jax is the most underutilized and one of the best characters in the game. I think he is on the lower end of top 5 but still definitely top 5 imo

 

[LaidbackOne]

I still think jax is the most underutilized and one of the best characters in the game. I think he is on the lower end of top 5 but still definitely top 5 imo

No chance he is top5 atm.

 

[BlockIsTheAnwser]

"Jax's execution is hard" lmao.

 

[RoboCop]

"Jax's execution is hard" lmao.

In @Belial's defense, he's not saying the execution is hard, he's saying the character is difficult to play due to the excessive number of normals, strings, and specials that must be memorized and utilized to win with him. While I disagree, I'd say that's at least more understandable than just "oh no, run cancel, my thumbs are broken!".

 

[RVB]

@karaokelove ya know what I think brotha... I think average players just avoid jax cuz you actually need to be competent with the character to win.
BTW i miss our matches man...

 

[RoboCop]

@karaokelove ya know what I think brotha... I think average players just avoid jax cuz you actually need to be competent with the character to win.
BTW i miss our matches man...

Me too! I've been playing on PC a bit lately. Fingers crossed they release KP3 and all updates for PC, though I'm not getting my hopes up.