Is Injustice 2 Dead & Killing The Scene?

Discussion in 'TYM News & Feedback' started by JBeezYBabY, Aug 22, 2018.

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Why do you think the scene is dying

  1. The community's attitude

    45 vote(s)
    48.4%
  2. Injustice 2 sucks

    28 vote(s)
    30.1%
  3. Lack of updates for Injustice 2

    20 vote(s)
    21.5%
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  1. JBeezYBabY

    JBeezYBabY Mr. Righteous

    Apparently, a video has been made about this subject so you know Uncle JBeezY had to bring the discussion about us to us! Shot out to Ernesto Lopez! ;)



    Now...Let's address the elephant in the room, shall we? It's not a secret that the NRS scene right now is damn near empty. The topic of the video asks "Is Injustice 2 dead? And if so, why?" There was a poll conducted (I voted as well) on three choices. As matter of fact you can vote below.

    Many of our own competitors have quit the game or leaving playing the game. With that said, do you think that also contributes to the scene not thriving? What can we do as a community to give some life, or is it we just need a new NRS game? What are your thoughts?

    I'm gonna keep it all the way live. Give your HONEST opinion!

    Let's have a serious discussion.
     
    #1
  2. HellblazerHawkman

    HellblazerHawkman Confused Thanagarian
    News Editor

    The people who talk about how Injustice 2 is fine now seem to forget how bad it was at launch. It doesn't matter if you can play your main with only 1 sub now, for the longest time it was "if you aren't playing Deadshot or Aquaman, why bother?". The people were tired of the game LONG before it was in a balanced state.
     
    #2
  3. Baconlord

    Baconlord HOLD THESE BEAMS SON

    I don't think the scene is dying. it's just come down from launch. we're a year in so everyone that just picked it up for fun or didn't like it has moved on by now. and I think people overestimate how large are scene actually is
     
    #3
  4. JBeezYBabY

    JBeezYBabY Mr. Righteous

    I believe its definitely the game as well. It had a SF effect, except we could only tolerate so much before enough is enough.
     
    #4
  5. imblackjames

    imblackjames Ive seen the leprechaun

    this is true but its also kind of our fault. We beg NRS to let games ride and dont do patches super quick but when they actually listen and take their time with patches we give up on them because they took too long.
     
    #5
    Misky, Aramonde, Rizz091 and 2 others like this.
  6. It's primarily due to a number of factors. Just to list a few:

    The way IPS was setup:
    I get the impression that due to the lack of events compared to the first IPS, inconsistent payout, and lack of updates even for who is listed on the leaderboards, has put a lot of stress on top players. Many have dropped out simply because there are very few opportunities to make it in (EU), and the short time scale that was announced. (Foxy, Irishmantis (well at one point...), etc.)

    DBZF
    An amazing title in itself, MvCI pretty much lost it's Evo spot due to the hype of this game and never recovered, and injustice has definitely taken a hit regarding the number of players from our scene that have currently dropped it in order to play (Sonicfox, Coachsteve, Theo, Beyond Toxin, etc.).

    MK players playing just to buy time for the new title
    Let's face it. First an foremost this scene was founded on Mortal Kombat. So it can't be a surprise that there are players that currently dislike this game (mainly because MK is iconic and Injustice is a relatively new franchise). Unfortunately, some of these players are some of the most vocal in their dislike for the game, but give general blanket statements as to why they dislike it.

    Also, the 2 year cycle has also conditioned our community to look forward to the next game, instead of building up our community we currently have, especially for a relatively new title that is just over a year old.

    Lack of personality and leadership
    During the days of MK9 we had personalities such as REO, Cdjr, DJT/MIT, Tom Brady, PL, PigoftheHut, 16 bit, Slips, etc. You also had the KTP podcast which set the narrative when it came to each major, telling major storylines. It was more about the pride than the money aspect, and local scenes where a huge part of building up rivalries which started on this very website, TYM.

    Most of the current players as of now, call TYM trash (the very website this scene was practically established on), local scenes are practically non-existent and there's an overall lack of leadership in our community. Factor in the lack of content, and it isn't surprising were we are now.

    Major props to Slips and KingHippo for taking initiative, because before their podcast I rarely tuned into majors or WOTG. I entered last week, but you have to ask the question where our top players are to encourage others to come out and support? The previous week before, there wasn't even a WOTG tournament due to the lack of entrants.

    in closing
    I'm glad this was posted because I definitely want to make more content for this community. I love this game, and this scene, and I want to do what I can (with the time I have) to help. I think anything related to the game as far as content wise can help. I hope others can do the same. Be the change you want to see. And props to the TO's, podcasts, TYM posters, TYM moderators, and local scene's that still continue to play, disucss, and post content about the game. You guys are the true unsung heroes.



     
    #6
  7. Saboteur-6

    Saboteur-6 Filthy Casual

    PSN:
    Saboteur-6
    I don't know what's considered dying? I'd have to see entrants numbers for tournaments in comparison with other NRS games across similar lifespans. SonicFox getting bored with Inj2 doesn't necessarily mean the scene is dead.
     
    #7
  8. Invincible Salads

    Invincible Salads Plz go easy on me

    lol, i hope people arent complaining about how nrs has patched the game, because back in the previous games, people complained about patching too soon, needa make up your damn mind. I for one am glad they take they're time.
     
    #8
  9. Skedar70

    Skedar70 Premium Supporter
    Premium Supporter

    This. The new top players are condescending elitists and they do nothing for the community. They don't understand that the game is more than just the top players. If there is no community there is no competition no tournaments no pot bonuses. Yet they refer to all tournament participants that are not part of the elites as "randoms" and completely ignore or bash on their opinions. You can see this constantly when they talk about TYM and how its a bunch of "randoms". Some do try to contribute (raptor, rye and even tweedy) but the rest Instead of promoting the game they hate on it constantly and this drives players away. The MK9 days had way better personalities like the ones mentioned who actually promoted and entertained. Their contributions helped the NRS community grow, but the new generations have done the opposite.

    NRS sells more games than any of the other FG developers but its unable to sustain an FGC presence compared to other games like SF or Smash. Why is this? Well my bet is because their community loves and sticks to their games while NRS hates and switches constantly. SF came out to sub par reviews and a lot of criticism from its own community yet they sticked to it and its one of if not the most popular fighting game at tournaments.
     
    #9
  10. Xzyj

    Xzyj Noob

    In my opinion what's hype to see is when people try to outspace and whiff punish, do creative combos, amazing risky reads, setups (flash setups still blow my mind every time i see new ones)

    But when you look at top scene atm what's actually there? Atom that's literally waiting for trait and stalling as much as possible for almost guaranteed damage/block pressure, zoners that you have to small step/duck for 30 seconds before you walk them into corner just for them to ex-roll through you to other side, and batmans playing "footsies" with their trait (not disrespecting batman players, character is hard to play optimally) and hellboy flying around mixing you on both sides and unreactable low.

    Game has a lot of cheap and safe tactics that players abuse, and doesn't really give you good options to keep them honest and play "fair", and while it might be very balanced for all we know, but it's just more annoying than fun to play. We all remember deadshot and how people were shitting on game for being literal call of duty the fighting game, but even tho now character diversity is great, that playstyle is still here and still highly effective (starfire, fate, blue beetle) and in my opinion it doesn't belong in a fighting game, i'm okay with zoning archetype but it needs to be a space controlling tool rather than free chip damage/meter build that's easy to spam.

    P.S. Forgot to mention, ranked needs to be a proper ranked system in the next game, right now it's pretty much player match ft3 with someone from guy that just picked up the game and to some 3000-2 stat guy, there should be learning curve so everyone can enjoy the game, and please add ignore wi-fi connection players option lol
     
    #10
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  11. Juggs

    Juggs Lose without excuses
    Lead Moderator

    Not sure, but I know that I lost interest in the game back before SG even got her initial buff (yeah, the one I begged forever for). It’s a decent game overall, I just wasn’t in love with how the game was played. Like the meta was just extremely aggravating to me.

    The passion as a whole seems to not really be there for this game either. It seems the hype for the game only lasted half a year. NRS games always lose steam within 2.5 years or so. But Injustice 2 lost steam before it even hit the year mark. To me it feels like Injustice 2 has been out for like 3 years at this point, I assume that’s because I have zero interest in it.

    I really don’t think it’s a bad game, and I don’t like talking about it negatively when there’s tons of people who love it and compete in it. So that’s all I will say on the matter.
     
    #11
  12. KingHippo

    KingHippo Alternative-Fact Checker

    Because the culture of the community is, at the moment, is stuck in a cycle that is hardly conducive to a long, healthy lifespan.

    Some complaints I hear, ones that would take a normal title 2-3 years to cultivate, happen at an excessively hurried pace in the NRS scene. Literally people in this thread talking about how it was a one or two character game for too long (it never was, but I digress), when those characters existed in that state for literally 3 months. Three. Months. Granted that in that time, quite a few major tournaments happened, but the worst of the balance was cut down in three months, with ample time given to let the community see if they could find alternatives. Older NRS titles had twice as much time for those problems to get solved, so the complaint gets less and less legitimate every title.

    Developers can have clear intentions and a swift hand to correct any errors, but it is ultimately up to the players to push a game's meta or challenge the status-quo, and I think the NRS scene is really poor at this. In ever competitive title they've released, the same arguments ("You need a team of characters!" "We need one last patch!" "[Insert character] runs the game!") are made, and they are almost always dead wrong, yet no one seems to be wise to the cycle. Instead, the newest fad always takes over, which leads to intense stagnation in results because, shocker, the people actually doing the work to be good and push their character(s) to the limit win out over the guys loudly proclaiming the balance is shit and confirm their own biases with gimmick picks that rarely work.

    I think one of the problems is that because of the stagnation I mentioned, there's no pressure to evolve. A lot of people will see "pressure" and think I'm discounting things like IPS and E-League, but I most certainly am not talking about the pressure of placing to earn money or points for a tournament series. What I'm talking about is the pressure of having a strategy stop working, so you're forced to adapt or die. In many games, this tug-of-war usually creates deep dives into a game's engine to find things like option-selects, really deep matchup quirks, and so-on. People like UltraDavid have already done this, and they're not active players! I hesitate to call it laziness, because that may be too harsh, but when the narrative becomes "The smartest thing to do is pick another character," that leads to people ceasing to explore the game because that narrative becomes true.

    The community's size has a lot to do with it, too. There are not a whole lot of players, and even then, the amount of people that seem truly interested in breaking it down as a fighting game seems even lower. There's a large amount of fair-weather fans (like OP) who play it pretty casually, see the arguments thrown out by the elite of the community, and then use that to confirm their biases and push the idea that the game is shallow, counter-pick heavy, etc. When the majority of a very small base has no interest in pushing the game to its limits, what hope is there for anyone interested in playing it who's not deeply invested in the scene?

    I have zero problems admitting that Injustice is not a popular game; the first one wasn't, so I don't expect the sequel, which is almost identical, to be either. What I did expect was for the community to not do what they did to every game that came before it, which was embrace the most shallow aspects of a game, proclaim that as the status-quo, and move on after about a year and a half, leaving only the strictest die-hards. People can deny this happened all they want, but I was there and I saw it happen, and I'm watching it happen again. It sucks, it really does.
     
    #12
  13. God Confirm

    God Confirm We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.

    MKX at the same point of lifespan had 713 EVO entrants.

    I2 had 336, making it the least played game there, with less than half the next played game which was Guilty Gear XRD, which in turn had half as much as the next game up BlazBlue CTB, and those games (well, GG at least) are considered underground anime fighters.

    Worth mentioning that every other game saw growth in entrants, while GG dropped by 100 entrants, and I2 dropped by more than half. GG makes sense, it's nearly 5 years old now and their devs released a new, wildly popular game (DBFZ) that many people moved over to.

    I'm not sure what the definition of dying is, but if any game fits it, it's probably I2.



    It's not looking good but whatever, there's still a scene for people to find games so as long as people are happy with it I guess.
     
    #13
  14. Gooberking

    Gooberking T7's Worst Player

    The game really never hooked people to the same degree as MKX or some of the other fighters. Random factoid: EVO #1 had something like a max of 46,000 steamers watching finals. MKX's last EVO (when it was dead) did 100k.

    I think it is fair to say that it is a good game, but that being a good game doesn't necessarily translate in to a fun game. And even if it is fun, that doesn't mean it's "I want to play this game for years and not play all the other cool fighting games" kind of fun. There is a lot of frustrating and lame stuff to overcome in the game, and it's just not going to be fun for everyone to play or watch. IJ2 is unique in how often and long you can end up in a lame situation.

    There needs to be something significant, and special to a game to inspire the kind of passion in it that keeps large amounts of people playing for more than a year. Being a good game technically just isn't enough.

    Lots of people did buy the game, and you can find matches over a year into the thing. I don't think you can really consider it a failure even if people weren't as into it as long as some other games. Competition is also so freaking high right now. People get bored, try BBCTB or DBZ and it's bye bye IJ2. What do you do there?

    I don't think more content is any kind of answer, and I personally feel like too much content is a very real thing that can exist. People always think they want or need more, but at some point it's just more. Eventually it can even turn something fine into a big pile of crap with no real identity to it.

    IJ2 has a lot of stuff. Asking for more is a little like saying 1 billion dollars isn't making me happy, so maybe 10 billion will. When a billion isn't enough, maybe I'm just not happy, and money isn't an answer.
     
    #14
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  15. Temp

    Temp Salmon. Otters. The Bringer.

    You can’t downplay that time period, though. That’s when most of a game’s growth period happens. That’s also when we get the most viewers from outside the scene.

    I think your partially correct about there being a cycle, but the only reason the cycle has any hold on the scene is because people, for whatever reason, don’t want to play the game.

    I know why this was true for past games. Injustice 1 had slow movement and balance blemishes, and mkx just wasn’t a very good game. I don’t know why it’s the case with IJ2, but if I had to guess, there’s just too many fighting games out, and people didn’t prioritize IJ2. At least that’s why I dropped it.
     
    #15
  16. KingHippo

    KingHippo Alternative-Fact Checker

    I'm not saying Bladam or Aquaman or Deadshot weren't problematic wrt balance, but it was a very small period of time. Most games go 3-6 months without getting touched in balance patches, and people try to adapt with what they have most of the time. Look at DBFZ, which has only had a couple patches but has struggled to deal with really strong top characters, but it doesn't matter, people put up with it. Granted, it's a different game with different mechanics and what is absurdly top in one game is definitely different compared to what's absurdly top in another, but balance has always been a red herring.

    I am still quite sure Injustice is just not a popular series. Evidently, more people are bugged out by the slow walkspeed and massive stages and what constitutes footsies in this game, and that's okay! I didn't want to play MKX for similar reasons. I just wish people didn't use blanket statements about depth or balance to justify what is a fundamental dislike of the game, there should be no reason why someone couldn't just be honest about that.
     
    #16
    meanzuga, kevkopdx, Cashual and 2 others like this.
  17. ZonalsEnd

    ZonalsEnd "Let's turn up the heat!"

    PSN:
    ZonalsEnd
    The game has some issues sure, but Injustice does not suck. I still have fun playing the game, but it gets tiresome hearing all of the bitching.

    I like playing the game but it doesn’t appear NRS has much of a community at all. More like a mob of cry babies and assholes. I’ve played a lot of games but I’ve never seen so much bitching (not just about Injustice 2, but MKX as well) and so much toxic behavior while even playing the games. I can’t play for even a couple matches without someone tbagging or shouting obscenities over the mic or bitching about my character. Losing shouldn’t result in messages of “git gud scrub” or chastising. No sportsmanship at all. So much negativity

    It’s the same on TYM. Barely ever see anyone trying to help anyone anymore. Just whining, insults and poor sportsmanship.

    No matter how good the next MK is I guarantee it’ll be the same. Because the “community” sucks.

    It’s just too bad I actually enjoy this fighting game more than all the rest
     
    #17
  18. Swindle

    Swindle Philanthropist & Asshole

    Anyone try the "Bunny Tracks" ice cream cup made by Blue Bunny? It's really good. Usually, when you want a sundae, you're buying all these ingredients. Then, you always make too big of a bowl. This thing is like 8 ounces, perfect size for a dessert. They have a few other sundae flavors, but "Bunny Tracks" is just too damn adorable of a name to pass up. They sell them at Walmart.
     
    #18
  19. Second Saint

    Second Saint A man with too many names.

    Steam:
    Coin Flip
    No, but there was a store brand of ice cream where I grew up that was called Moose Tracks, and a bigger, badder, more chocolate-peanut buttery version called X-treme Moose Tracks. This was the 90's, so I like to think the moose was on a skateboard with a backwards cap. Very Radical and quite x-treme.
     
    #19
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
    Swindle, Icefyre and KingHippo like this.
  20. Tokiwartoothxdk

    Tokiwartoothxdk 『T R I G G E R E D』

    tourneys like war of the gods being on stream.me sure doesnt help the game gain viewers
     
    #20
    JBeezYBabY and imblackjames like this.
  21. Evil Canadian

    Evil Canadian G O K U

    Alls I know is Gorilla grodd sucked for too long and I dropped out.

    Now all I wants is MK11
     
    #21
    juicepouch and JBeezYBabY like this.
  22. ZonalsEnd

    ZonalsEnd "Let's turn up the heat!"

    PSN:
    ZonalsEnd
    Why? That’s bullshit. Stream.me is just fine. Arguably WOTG helps the community stay involved between big tournaments.
     
    #22
  23. Mikemetroid

    Mikemetroid MK Mythologies: Injustice 2
    Moderator Premium Supporter

    It happens. People just want a new game. I remember feeling the same around IGAU times.
     
    #23
  24. ABACABB

    ABACABB End Of Humanity

    This game just got boring , too many other good fgs are out to waste time on it anymore . One more fighter pack , good balance patch , maybe some new stages would sure make this game interesting again . But well we all know this will not happen . So im sticking with dbfz and bb till mk11 drops . Maybe ill play it casually a few times per month .
     
    #24
    Icefyre, Juggs and JBeezYBabY like this.
  25. neveradestroyer

    neveradestroyer Tier hero... lowest tier amazing player.

    The issue with the game can be shortened out as this match-up at 19:00 minutes. Enchantress... a supposed anti zoner still gets zoned anyway.

    If You make a zoning game. Please put some real tools to punish said zoning. How come that the game will always reward spam?. Yes.. What that Starfire was doing was spam. Even with a player that punished her wake ups. The spam will win over footsies in the game.

    Why can't Enchantress anti zoning tool work properly?. Why She has to get zoned to death by this one button (Trait) zoner get away with this crap?.

    Same with the Turtles anti zoning tool. It's useless. The lack of real anti zoning defensive tools ruin the game forever.
     
    #25

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