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Injustice 2: Tierlist/Character Match Ups

K

kcd117

Noob
HanSolo said:
Wait where did I say she is an inferior character or that she can't get it done? Catwoman absolutely can win a major.

Reading comprehension itt.
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Idk what are you trying to say with "he moved on to deadshot after not being able to get it done with her for 2 majors" other than impling he might be a better character, and if that wasn't what you were trying to say, I really fail to see the point of that speech. Just bc some people can't place with her it doesn't mean she can't be the best in the game, MMH was considered the best in IGAU even tho jupiter was the only one placing with him.
 
OmGxBdON

OmGxBdON

I'm going to make Fate top ten
HanSolo said:
Did you even read what I posted Zoid?

I accounted for Semij's great performance, thus the one top 8 I mentioned. Foxy didn't play CW at Evo, he moved on to deadshot after not being able to get it done with Catwoman at the last 2 majors. And once again, I am not arguing that CW is bad, I'm arguing that she isn't "Definitely top 1" as Bruno and others have stated on this forum as if it's the gospel.
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foxy doesnt play cw like semij, alot goes into success. character and the skill of the player the most. you can argue for either one but cw is such a dominant character, with all the tools like aquaman and more. not to mention her amazing damage output and her broken hitbox almost unpunishable catdash ful screen. Just cuz a character doesnt place well doesnt mean anything. flash top 2 does that mean hes 2nd best character in the game. no. and what bruno said about cuthroat as well
hopefully your not one of the people who actually believe cw is fine.
 
EMPRESS_SunFire

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
kcd117 said:
Even though she is not hard to pick up, I think adam/aqua/supes are characters with an easier gameplan to implement. She is the kinda character that requires a different approach for some matchups, and a bit more knowledge to use effectively, on the other hand, aquaman black adam and superman, the characters I see most people counterpicking with, have basically the same gameplan for every matchup.
Not to knock on superman/aquaman players, but if I had to train an ape at this game, to have a shot at a tournament I would definetly choose to teach him either aqua or supes, and I bet 90% of this site would do the same.
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Zoidberg747 said:
I don't think she's top 1 necessarily, but the answer to your second question is her gameplan is more complex. BA and Aqua are stupid easy to use and very simplistic in their game plan, Catwoman isn't. The reason Catwoman is so good is because she has so many good tools, but you have to be smart in how you use them to win. She also has to approach some matchups differently than others, while Aqua and BA can approach almost any MU in a relatively similar way.
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I agree with both of you but everyone talks about how easy and braindead she is and also how she is absolute #1 and beats the other 2 best characters, yet no one actually uses her as a pocket character. Also I think that people love to throw around her beating Adam and Aquaman but why is no one counterpicking them with her?

I mean if she is that easy, that braindead and also beats Aquaman and Adam + her being a legacy charcter... why is no one using her as a pocket? People would just use her for the Aquaman and Adam match-ups as a counterpick.
 
K

kcd117

Noob
EMPRESS_SunFire said:
I agree with both of you but everyone talks about how easy and braindead she is and also how she is absolute #1 and beats the other 2 best characters, yet no one actually uses her as a pocket character. Also I think that people love to throw around her beating Adam and Aquaman but why is no one counterpicking them with her?

I mean if she is that easy, that braindead and also beats Aquaman and Adam + her being a legacy charcter... why is no one using her as a pocket? People would just use her for the Aquaman and Adam match-ups as a counterpick.
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It might have something to do with the fact that aqua, adam and superman were more popular characters in igau, and people often used aquaman to counterpick back then. I remember seeing some superman counterpicks in igau, black adam I haven't seen that many, but maybe due to the fact that these characters have been popular top tiers at some point in igau and are top tier now, unlike catwoman who was not as popular/good in the first game as the rest of the counter pick top tier class in I2.
What I believe is that playing catwoman at a high level to beat a top superman/aquaman/black adam player takes a lot more time than playing black adam to counter a top aquaman for example. She beats all the top tiers but she beats them in matchups that are not that simple and would require some character specific knowledge.
 
HanSolo

HanSolo

Noob
These responses aren't even worth arguing with anymore. Clearly Catwoman is #1 free and 7-3s BA and Aqua, but pros just aren't using her because she's just too complex and execution is just too hard in injustice lul.


Sunfire nailed it.
 
Bruno-NeoSpace

Bruno-NeoSpace

They see me zonin', they hatin'
EMPRESS_SunFire said:
I mean if she is that easy, that braindead and also beats Aquaman and Adam + her being a legacy charcter... why is no one using her as a pocket? People would just use her for the Aquaman and Adam match-ups as a counterpick.
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It's because EVERYBODY talks about Aquaman and Black Adam. She is like low key busted. :p

Think about Dragon's Fire Liu Kang... ;)
 
EMPRESS_SunFire

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
kcd117 said:
It might have something to do with the fact that aqua, adam and superman were more popular characters in igau, and people often used aquaman to counterpick back then. I remember seeing some superman counterpicks in igau, black adam I haven't seen that many, but maybe due to the fact that these characters have been popular top tiers at some point in igau and are top tier now, unlike catwoman who was not as popular/good in the first game as the rest of the counter pick top tier class in I2.
What I believe is that playing catwoman at a high level to beat a top superman/aquaman/black adam player takes a lot more time than playing black adam to counter a top aquaman for example. She beats all the top tiers but she beats them in matchups that are not that simple and would require some character specific knowledge.
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Good point but I guess time will tell then. At the end of the day there's no denying she is an amazing character.
 
God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Bruno-NeoSpace said:
Needing major top 8 placements to recognise a character's ability is for starters dense, and deliberately not using the power of critical thinking that we've been blessed with.

You remember Cutthroat Kano? Yeah...
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i got crazy dejavu for a second when i read that first sentence and then I realised why lol. But yeah I absolutely agree about tourney results not being definitive proof of anything (obviously), but I think it's fair to disagree with Catwoman being top 1 hands down. She's in that tier, but being definitively better than the rest is pretty debatable
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
HanSolo said:
These responses aren't even worth arguing with anymore. Clearly Catwoman is #1 free and 7-3s BA and Aqua, but pros just aren't using her because she's just too complex and execution is just too hard in injustice lul.


Sunfire nailed it.
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Who is actually arguing that? Can you point out one person who said she's definitive top 1 and 7-3s those two chars?

Also I have yet to hear any Catwoman player say who she loses to. I am serious and actually curious, what would you consider to be her losing MUs?
 
B. Shazzy

B. Shazzy

NRS shill #42069
"well she might lose to this 1 random character but not really but even then she has to work so hard and play smart with halfscreen riskless footsies with easy pressure/damage. besides literally everyone doesnt main her in tournament so she cant be that great" lul
 
God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Zoidberg747 said:
Who is actually arguing that? Can you point out one person who said she's definitive top 1 and 7-3s those two chars?
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literally the post he responded to in here to begin with says almost exactly that

here:

Bruno-NeoSpace said:
Catwoman definitely is top 1. She defeats even Aquaman and Black Adam.
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he didnt outright say 7-3's, but he did say she defeats them and is definitive top 1, so hansolo's post isn't really out of line at all
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
WB-chan said:
literally the post he responded to in here to begin with says almost exactly that

here:




he didnt outright say 7-3's, but he did say she defeats them and is definitive top 1, so hansolo's post isn't really out of line at all
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I didn't see that post but fair enough. Saying she 7-3s Aqua and BA though was still never said, so my post isn't that out of line either :p
 
God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
YEH think people are jumping on HanSolo here a bit. The guy isn't saying anything about her being less than top 3, or not being an amazing character, the only thing he disagreed with is the statement that "shes definitely top 1, and beats both Aquaman and Black Adam". It's cool if thats Bruno's opinion, but I don't think it's too outlandish for HanSolo to say his opinion that she might not DEFINITELY be top 1, and might not have some big advantage in the match up against two other amazing characters, even if she is still potentially one of the greatest characters in this game. I don't think we need to react too strongly to that perspective, hes definitely not downplaying even if i disagree with using evo placings as any sort of definitive logic
 
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God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
wsj515 said:
It happens time and time again. The quan community cried for buffs (lol) because guys like Michelangelo weren't placing...
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its even worse than that, they cried for buffs because Michelangelo "only got 5th at EVO". Like what? And Paulo went ahead and basically granted their entire wishlist. So dumb.

This competitive scene is tiny. There is like 10 players max who could even potentially win a tournament like EVO, and there is only a few majors each year. Expecting each and every top 8 to be a highly accurate reflection of the tier list is crazy. I think unless trends are really prominent (CEO Tanya), that for the most part we should just be recognising the players, not the characters. We know there is a better chance for stronger characters to end up there, that doesn't guarantee that they will though. A handful of majors is a year is an absolutely tiny statistic range, if there was one a week it might be the kind of statistic we could look to for trends over time, and that isn't to say that we can't learn or recognise anything about characters from an individual performance at the highest level, but just selecting one specific top 8 result and using it as an argument to try and disprove anything is as exactly what was said - dense, and deliberately not using the power of critical thinking that we were blessed with.
 
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HanSolo

HanSolo

Noob
WB-chan said:
YEH think people are jumping on HanSolo here a bit. The guy isn't saying anything about her being less than top 3, or not being an amazing character, the only thing he disagreed with is the statement that "shes definitely top 1, and beats both Aquaman and Black Adam". It's cool if thats Bruno's opinion, but I don't think it's too outlandish for HanSolo to say his opinion that she might not DEFINITELY be top 1, and might not have some big advantage in the match up against two other amazing characters, even if she is still potentially one of the greatest characters in this game. I don't think we need to react too strongly to that perspective, hes definitely not downplaying even if i disagree with using evo placings as any sort of definitive logic
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Thanks.

I don't think that top 8 placements=tier at all, that wasn't my intention. I don't think Scarecrow or Flash are top 3 because of their success at CEO & Evo, respectively. But as mentioned earlier I do think there is something to be said about BA/Aq popping up repeatedly through all 3 major's top 8s when Catwoman has shown up just once (and never as a pocket). The whole "CW #1 and counters BA/Aq" line that originally got me rustled just is not supported by evidence in this young game's life at this point; unless we are to assume that the pros are just oblivious and don't know how to win the free $ by pocketing CW.
 
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