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Injustice 2 PC Beta is now LIVE (press release inside)

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
Same here and my PC makes the PS4 blush, and multiple people have said similar things about being surprised about how intensive the performance is to run smoothly. This game is either horribly optimized, or Denuvo is impacting it. At least it felt stable though.
Well, it may be hard to accurately compare the two platforms. This version is more in line with the new xbox one s version that dropped than it is with the current PS4 version. It's not going to be easy to say what the equivalent settings are the PS4 would be most closely a match for. I'm guessing the texture setting for PS4 is probably the Mid texture setting on PC. Low on motion blur looks awful so PS4 is probably a mid or better there. I don't know if I've ever looked into if it's a 1080p game on PS4 or not, but lower resolutions always help. My GPU didn't cost as much as a PS4 so that's a consideration in my situation.

I'm more interested in the subtle stuttering during some actions like trait pops, and ground slams (particle bursts?). MKXL PC still has stuttering issues despite being much improved. I was hoping for that to be ironed out, but maybe not. Console versions never waver in their frames. PC versions of BlazBlue, DOA5, Tekken7, KOF14, Guilty Gear, and KI all have rock solid frames on PC as far as I can remember. MKX and now IJ2 don't seem to. At least without cranking everything all the way down.

The boot time seems better than the PC versions of IJ1 and MKX which both took about a week to load the first time.

On a side note, changing textures to mid did seem to help load times for the benchmark (I think) but that isn't helpful if my opponent doesn't feel the same way about load times - which is unlikely. I'll have more time to fiddle with it tomorrow when I don't have to spend part of the night downloading the thing.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Well, it may be hard to accurately compare the two platforms. This version is more in line with the new xbox one s version that dropped than it is with the current PS4 version. It's not going to be easy to say what the equivalent settings are the PS4 would be most closely a match for. I'm guessing the texture setting for PS4 is probably the Mid texture setting on PC. Low on motion blur looks awful so PS4 is probably a mid or better there. I don't know if I've ever looked into if it's a 1080p game on PS4 or not, but lower resolutions always help. My GPU didn't cost as much as a PS4 so that's a consideration in my situation.

I'm more interested in the subtle stuttering during some actions like trait pops, and ground slams (particle bursts?). MKXL PC still has stuttering issues despite being much improved. I was hoping for that to be ironed out, but maybe not. Console versions never waver in their frames. PC versions of BlazBlue, DOA5, Tekken7, KOF14, Guilty Gear, and KI all have rock solid frames on PC as far as I can remember. MKX and now IJ2 don't seem to. At least without cranking everything all the way down.

The boot time seems better than the PC versions of IJ1 and MKX which both took about a week to load the first time.

On a side note, changing textures to mid did seem to help load times for the benchmark (I think) but that isn't helpful if my opponent doesn't feel the same way about load times - which is unlikely. I'll have more time to fiddle with it tomorrow when I don't have to spend part of the night downloading the thing.
I mean I'm probably looking worse than PS4 version out here and still not getting a stable 60. I think it's safe to say thats bad optimization
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
Most of you can match game performance with your hardware. INJ 2 port is based on Xbox version just adjusted. Same as Xbox One X version, just the PC allows better AA and higher resolution. On top end PC (GTX 1080 Ti is strongly advised for 4K with everything maxed) you will get stable as rock 60 fps. You will see some stuttering during in and out of the intro / outro movies since all of those are by design 30 fps.

You will also notice some stuttering if your GPU is struggling to keep up (you can use Afterburner to check this out), assigning particles to CPU instead of GPU will help (if you have a modern i5 at least). Loading times are good, way shorter then on PS4 or Xbox One IF you AND your oponent got the game on a decent SSD drive.

Optimization is fine for the most part; as in any PC game unless you got a top end PC you need to match game settings with your hardware, thou on PC especially in fighting games you also need to factor your opponents PC.
 
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God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Most of you can match game performance with your hardware. INJ 2 port is based on Xbox version just adjusted. Same as Xbox One X version just the PC allows better AA and higher resolution. On top end PC (GTX 1080 Ti is strongly advised for 4K with everything maxed) you will get stable as rock 60 fps. You will see some shuttering during in and out of the intro / outro movies since all of those are by design 30 fps.

You will also notice some shuttering if your GPU is struggling to keep up (you can use Afterburner to check this out), assigning particles to CPU instead of GPU will help (if you have a modern i5 at least). Loading times are good, way shorter then on PS4 or Xbox One IF you AND your oponent got the game on a decent SSD drive.

Optimization is fine for the most part; as in any PC game unless you got a top end PC you need to match game settings with your hardware, thou on PC especially in fighting games you also need to factor your opponents PC.
TY immortal
 

Slymind

Noob
Well, this thing definitely can look nice, but it's was a struggle to find settings that would give me even frames and it still had hiccups during my fight, and I don't think it looked as good as the PS4 in my case. That's a bummer, but I may just need to fiddle with stuff until I find what works for me. I do like having power of choice there.

The extra fidelity seems to negatively impact the load times. On my SSD it feels like it takes quite a bit longer to load a fight than it does on a standard PS4 drive which isn't supposed to be very impressive. When it comes to fighters I really don't care much about how the game looks if matches load fast. (I can't believe SFV players put up with the 19 hour load times on PS4) I should probably time it before getting in a twist over it, but I'm in critical mode and I'm not at all psyched for that possibility. Especially given it's a lowest common denominator situation where I may be waiting on someone else's slow drive. Hopefully I'm just being impatient and my feelings aren't supported by the clock.
Glad it wasn't just me. I've been getting some hiccups as well. usually as the game starts, or in some random moments, nothing gamebreaking, but pc is considerably better than a PS4, and i don't believe this should happen;
 

Slymind

Noob
Most of you can match game performance with your hardware. INJ 2 port is based on Xbox version just adjusted. Same as Xbox One X version, just the PC allows better AA and higher resolution. On top end PC (GTX 1080 Ti is strongly advised for 4K with everything maxed) you will get stable as rock 60 fps. You will see some stuttering during in and out of the intro / outro movies since all of those are by design 30 fps.

You will also notice some stuttering if your GPU is struggling to keep up (you can use Afterburner to check this out), assigning particles to CPU instead of GPU will help (if you have a modern i5 at least). Loading times are good, way shorter then on PS4 or Xbox One IF you AND your oponent got the game on a decent SSD drive.

Optimization is fine for the most part; as in any PC game unless you got a top end PC you need to match game settings with your hardware, thou on PC especially in fighting games you also need to factor your opponents PC.
Wait, does my opponent's pc affects my performance too? legit question
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
Wait, does my opponent's pc affects my performance too? legit question
Imagine it takes your pc 5 seconds to load a match. Now imagine it takes your opponent 120 seconds to load the same match. How long until you get to play the match?
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
Wait, does my opponent's pc affects my performance too? legit question
Short answer - yes it does.

In ideal conditions when you have a top end PC (lets i7 7700K + GTX 1080 Ti + SSD) and your oponent also have one (+ you both have low latency to each other) your experience with the game will be awesome - 4K maxed settings, like 3 seconds loading time. Far better then on any console (including Xbox One X).

However, since there are so many possible configurations on PC your experience will most likely vary. In many cases it will be even worse then on consoles - when your oponent for example has shitty PC and didnt lower settings to have stable 60 fps and uses old, slow HDD.

While on consoles you wont get the top end PC visuals everything else is fixed, since everybody has the same hardware. So there is no variables, everything works as designed. On PC its a completely different story so its important to play with friends / people who you know that have decent PC or at least are smart enough to lower their settings to achieve stable 60 fps in game.
 

Slymind

Noob
Imagine it takes your pc 5 seconds to load a match. Now imagine it takes your opponent 120 seconds to load the same match. How long until you get to play the match?
Loading times sure, but, i'm talking about FPS. Can i drop FPS because of the other guy?

Short answer - yes it does.

In ideal conditions when you have a top end PC (lets i7 7700K + GTX 1080 Ti + SSD) and your oponent also have one (+ you both have low latency to each other) your experience with the game will be awesome - 4K maxed settings, like 3 seconds loading time. Far better then on any console (including Xbox One X).

However, since there are so many possible configurations on PC your experience will most likely vary. In many cases it will be even worse then on consoles - when your oponent for example has shitty PC and didnt lower settings to have stable 60 fps and uses old, slow HDD.

While on consoles you wont get the top end PC visuals everything else is fixed, since everybody has the same hardware. So there is no variables, everything works as designed. On PC its a completely different story so its important to play with friends / people who you know that have decent PC or at least are smart enough to lower their settings to achieve stable 60 fps in game.
Loeading times, latency and everything related to netplay i understand, but FPS are legit news to me, i thought the framerate perfomance was solely on the users own hardware when online.
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
Loeading times, latency and everything related to netplay i understand, but FPS are legit news to me, i thought the framerate perfomance was solely on the users own hardware when online.
Even with GGPO the game has to be in sync, obviously; so if the other player is dropping frames coz of weak PC you will see stutter, dropped frames, "teleports" on the screen. In more hardcore scenario game will just end mid match with error message like "the game session is no longer available".

Thats why on PC you have fps meter (red, yellow, green with number if you enable it in netplay options) on players card before you accept any online match.
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
Loading times sure, but, i'm talking about FPS. Can i drop FPS because of the other guy?



Loeading times, latency and everything related to netplay i understand, but FPS are legit news to me, i thought the framerate perfomance was solely on the users own hardware when online.
My comment was more of a for instance. As far as frames go, I wanted to play more before speaking as to how it would react to a difference.

Since frames are so important to fighters, they tend to slow time down to make sure all the frames are shown vs a lot of other games where frames are skipped and you just don't get that slice of time. Pre net overhaul MKX low frames would definitely slow your game down. I think it's similar still, but I mostly migrated to PS4, so I don't remember if it's the same but I would assume so. It got super frustrating meeting people who were used to playing the game at a slower pace and suddenly you had to as well, but weren't accustomed to it. I honestly got to thinking people were doing it on purpose to try and create a kind of advantage by knocking you out of your comfort zone.

Fighters are so tightly coupled to the frames, and to two specific people that it's hard to get away with anything without it impacting the game or someone seeing it.

But then I should probably leave the commenting to the industry professional. I can barely wrap my head around business software most days and it's not near as complicated.
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
Short answer - yes it does.

In ideal conditions when you have a top end PC (lets i7 7700K + GTX 1080 Ti + SSD) and your oponent also have one (+ you both have low latency to each other) your experience with the game will be awesome - 4K maxed settings, like 3 seconds loading time. Far better then on any console (including Xbox One X).

However, since there are so many possible configurations on PC your experience will most likely vary. In many cases it will be even worse then on consoles - when your oponent for example has shitty PC and didnt lower settings to have stable 60 fps and uses old, slow HDD.

While on consoles you wont get the top end PC visuals everything else is fixed, since everybody has the same hardware. So there is no variables, everything works as designed. On PC its a completely different story so its important to play with friends / people who you know that have decent PC or at least are smart enough to lower their settings to achieve stable 60 fps in game.
Question. Do video card bottlenecks exist when pushing texture data to memory? I've got the game on an SSD and it takes 10-18 seconds to load the benchmark. I had enough time to read up on my new MoBo's SATA port stats before a fight.

I ran a benchmark on my SSD the game is on, and I think the results are good, but I'm not anywhere near these amazo 3 second load times you speak of. My vid card isn't a performance monster (just more of a good bang for buck buy) and I'm wondering what else may be involved.

The game otherwise is running pretty well. Had to tank the particle settings and things smoothed out a lot and I was able up some of the other stuff and stay stable. On PS4 I play in a 27" monitor across the room, so it's kind of nice to be able to get close to the game and see everything up close for the first time.

What's not cool, is that clearly nobody on PC has played before and will need some time to catch up. The controls won't change either so I'm accidentally stance dancing on people I'm steam rolling. I think I'm ruining the experience for people, so I'm probably going to stay off it for the most part.

I do think it looks worth buying at this point. I don't think I personally am willing to drop coin on another ultimate edition, but anyone that hasn't had a way to play before, should be good to go.
 
Played a couple matches yesterday. The character select screen is very laggy, but the actual matches were surprisingly smooth. Of course, this long after release I don't see this version maintaining an adequate playerbase.
 

CmC_HAt

Noob
How can there be patch notes for a game that isn't out?
i mean all the patch notes since the relase date, to read about the changes the game has been through so far...

actually who are the top tiers?????
i wanna play joker and catwoman and/or scarecrow
 

trufenix

bye felicia
i mean all the patch notes since the relase date, to read about the changes the game has been through so far...

actually who are the top tiers?????
i wanna play joker and catwoman and/or scarecrow
I mean, its a beta. Nothings final. It's like asking what a cake tastes like half way through cooking it. If you want to see old patch notes go here; https://community.wbgames.com/t5/Official-Announcements/bd-p/Injustice2OfficialAnnouncements

The top tiers (if you believe a bunch of people who haven't played it for longer than a day) are supergirl and firestorm, Joker maybe cause now he has 50/50s, but Supergirl was already top 1 and now firestorm got buffed even though he was secret top 10, so he's also top 1.

No one else is even worth picking unless you're sonic fox cause he can win with anyone, as long as his opponent doesn't pick batman cause playing Batman (for this last week) is free wins.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Most of you can match game performance with your hardware. INJ 2 port is based on Xbox version just adjusted. Same as Xbox One X version, just the PC allows better AA and higher resolution. On top end PC (GTX 1080 Ti is strongly advised for 4K with everything maxed) you will get stable as rock 60 fps. You will see some stuttering during in and out of the intro / outro movies since all of those are by design 30 fps.

You will also notice some stuttering if your GPU is struggling to keep up (you can use Afterburner to check this out), assigning particles to CPU instead of GPU will help (if you have a modern i5 at least). Loading times are good, way shorter then on PS4 or Xbox One IF you AND your oponent got the game on a decent SSD drive.

Optimization is fine for the most part; as in any PC game unless you got a top end PC you need to match game settings with your hardware, thou on PC especially in fighting games you also need to factor your opponents PC.
alright, well after doing some more testing, and hearing the opinions of MANY others:

this game is definitely optimized VERY poorly.

You can test without online play by using the benchmark.

If your hardware is a ton more powerful as a PS4, but still has to run the game in a much worse looking state - this is bad optimization. If you need a 1080 and an i7 just to hit the graphics properly - this supports the bad optimization claims, not disproves them. A machine working with the best tech on the market can generally run anything, and how well optimized for PC a game is not measured by that alone, and it might be hard for you to benchmark such a thing if that's what you are working with. For what it's worth, my card is only just behind that, and it's a completely different story. Optimization in this game is decidely poor. Whether or not that's Denuvo at work is yet to be seen.
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
alright, well after doing some more testing, and hearing the opinions of MANY others:

this game is definitely optimized VERY poorly.

You can test without online play by using the benchmark.

If your hardware is a ton more powerful as a PS4, but still has to run the game in a much worse looking state - this is bad optimization. If you need a 1080 and an i7 just to hit the graphics properly - this supports the bad optimization claims, not disproves them. A machine working with the best tech on the market can generally run anything, and how well optimized for PC a game is not measured by that alone, and it might be hard for you to benchmark such a thing if that's what you are working with. For what it's worth, my card is only just behind that, and it's a completely different story. Optimization in this game is decidely poor. Whether or not that's Denuvo at work is yet to be seen.
I don't know about that. The 1080 i7 talk was more about running at max settings @ 4k I thought.

My PC is a new build and is solid, but nothing amazing. People have better and I've found settings that are running the game at a higher resolution than the PS4 and I think it probably looks better than ps4 with better textures.

There is a lot of candy in the game and the PC version is not technically comparable to the PS4 having a lot more hardcore options and better textures, so it's hard to say what is what with out something more scientific than citing a bunch of random people, with god knows what setting combinations, saying they aren't happy. You need side by side comparisons running the same resolution, equivalent texture, shadow, motion blur, bloom, etc settings on a rig with similar ram and CPU power and even then you have to figure the OS overhead is going to be different.

Sometime after that point and testing rigs with slightly better power (doing poorly) you can start questioning the optimization of any platform specific code. A word I would say is a real word in software, but is generally so generic that it's often not useful, especially when tossed around by the public with no actual knowledge of the internal specifics of the code base. It's turned into a word the public uses a lot to complain about performance concerns in a way that makes it sound like they know the lingo when it's probably not as true or meaningful as it sounds. On top of that, a lot of the performance heavy stuff (the graphics) are part of the underlying game engine and not necessarily NRS/WB's code to optimize. (I have heard them say they use a modified engine, so that could factor in)

Do we know what Shadow algorithm the PS4 uses? What about the Subsurface scattering level, motion blur, ambient occlusion (all expensive computations) ? Do we know if the person complaining is running 4K, has shadows on max, but maybe then has to run on low to mid textures because that sweet boss system he is running isn't automatically a PS4 killer just because it cost more than a PS4? What does person 1 think "looks worse" than a PS4? If I use HQ shadows maybe I am forced to use LQ motion blur which looks terrible - worse that PS4. But if I use MQ for both then maybe that looks fine. There are a lot of variables flying around that can't just be shoved in good/bad bags and mean a whole lot. I'm not sure I have enough real, objective information to say if someone failed optimization or not.

The quality bar on the output for the game is pretty high. I feel like what I'm seeing suggests it's demanding game, not necessarily a poorly performing one - which is different. A difference not everyone is going to be equipped to appreciate.

With that said, I do question my load times. I was able to get the game running well by turning particles to low and then I could crank up other settings, but my SSD takes a long time to load the benchmark. I don't need the mentioned 3 second loads, but 6 would be nice.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Do we know what Shadow algorithm the PS4 uses? What about the Subsurface scattering level, motion blur, ambient occlusion (all expensive computations) ? If I use HQ shadows maybe I am forced to use LQ motion blur which looks terrible - worse that PS4. But if I use MQ for both then maybe that looks fine. There are a lot of variables flying around that can't just be shoved in good/bad bags and mean a whole lot. I'm not sure I have enough real, objective information to say if someone failed optimization or not.
Does this shit matter at all? If looks worse but runs the same, then it doesn't matter what development reasons are for it. It means that it's optimized poorly. Trying to use that to deflect the fact that it's poorly optimized is completely irrelevant. Nobody is saying that getting a game to run smoothly on a PC is easy work - but we are allowed to say when it hasn't been done well.

Do we know if the person complaining is running 4K, has shadows on max, but maybe then has to run on low to mid textures because that sweet boss system he is running isn't automatically a PS4 killer just because it cost more than a PS4? What does person 1 think "looks worse" than a PS4?
Do I know if my own PC is stronger than a PS4? Yes, I'm quite confident it is lol. Do I trust my own eyes? Yes, I do.
Just completely discounting everyone's opinion who disagrees makes no sense here. Either you have to completely ignore everyone to weigh in, which means you have only your own opinion to go on and fuck all real knowledge. Or if you want a broader picture, you have to take into account the general feedback, which in this case from what I've seen is "this game performs poorer than it should". There's always a few people who will have it wrong, but not every game gets this response, and when this is a common response for people then it's mean something that users genuinely are experiencing. Your post seems likes its trying kinda hard to say that they, with no real information to say otherwise. Let it rock, this is a beta, this is the time to speak up about it.
 
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Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
Does this shit matter at all? If looks worse but runs the same, then it doesn't matter what development reasons are for it. It means that it's optimized poorly. Trying to use that to deflect the fact that it's poorly optimized is completely irrelevant. Nobody is saying that getting a game to run smoothly on a PC is easy work - but we are allowed to say when it hasn't been done well.


Do I know if my own PC is stronger than a PS4? Yes, I'm quite confident it is lol. Do I trust my own eyes? Yes, I do.
Just completely discounting everyone's opinion who disagrees makes no sense here. Either you have to completely ignore everyone to weigh in, which means you have only your own opinion to go on and fuck all real knowledge. Or if you want a broader picture, you have to take into account the general feedback, which in this case from what I've seen is "this game performs poorer than it should". There's always a few people who will have it wrong, but when this is a common response for people then it is something that users genuinely are experiencing lol.
That's fine if you personally know your system and know how good all its bits are. I'm totally fine with buying into your personal take, but you are citing other people to back you up, and I don't know these people. I don't know if they know anything about anything. I don't know what settings they are choosing to prioritize over others or what res the are running in. They are just these people out there who seem to think they are coming up short, but I don't know why. I don't even know who they are.

The number of people that can't even install software without Steam doing it for them is shocking, so I don't trust just anyone that complains about computer stuff. The situation for this game on PC makes it stupid easy for people to think they have a better PC than they really do and blame the game. It makes it easy to crank up high costs effects and poorly distribute the graphical load to produce a bad looking or poor performing out come that is more about their lack of knowing what they are doing than it is about the game. Does that mean there is nothing to the complaints? No. Should complaints be written off? No. But when it comes to moving past "I think something is wrong here" to "I know there is a performance issue and it is the problem," then that shit does matter.

It matters a heck of a lot because you can't say PS4 is optimized but PC isn't unless you put them under as identical load as possible and see that one platform isn't performing the same. You can't do that unless you lock the variables down and start taking measurements. Motion blur, occlusion, shadows, subsurface scattering. These are stupid expensive and major variables who's computational costs skyrocket with each quality step. You simply can't say a PS4 is doing a better job when you have no idea how much math each system is crunching. That's not a dig, or saying people aren't observing something real. It just means you can't eyeball a PS4 and know for sure how much work it's doing.

I'm ok with saying when something doesn't seem right. Somebody has to complain to know there is a problem. I'm just not seeing anything personally that suggests that anything unusual or unexpected is really happening. Certainly not to the degree that it a self evident and objective given that the game is running poorly, - which is kind what I feel like you're getting at. I guess I'm not fully buying "poorly optimized" when i'm not seeing optimization issue indicators. That is not me saying there aren't actual issues or that I'm not just plain wrong. With software, it's easy to be wrong... a lot.

There are a lot of systems out there that can all have sorts of system specific issues, and I'm sure that's a very real thing for some people right now. For the record I wouldn't classify those issues as optimization issues. Optimizing is about doing things in a different way that produces the same or equivalent results faster. As such, they typically impact users across the board, and are not so much about divergent behaviors across users. That's not a rule. A bad optimization could fail to account for a situation select users have, but I typically associate bad optimization with shortcuts not taken. Though it could also mean badly taken shortcuts, or even short cuts that shouldn't have been taken (some shortcuts are only faster some of the time.)

I suspect I'm just soap boxing on word choice. I'm not saying it's the wrong word to use here, but if you had been saying some people are experiencing "poor performance" I probably wouldn't have wasted both of our time typing a bunch of nothing.
 

Raider

Noob
Was playing the beta these past few days and i love it. Game is lots of fun.
Really good optimization and netcode.

But i am little sceptical about buying the game because of player base and it's longevity. There is no cross-play and game is not cheap. So i am still not sure. If i decide to buy it i would only buy Ultimate Edition, not standard.

BTW. Not sure was it mentioned but GMG already has it available for pre-order, and there is -20% voucher for both versions in the VIP section.

https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/injustice-2-pc/