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Injustice 2 numbers for EVO revealed, no 8AM pools

alkipot

Purse first, ass last.
IJ2 is very balanced for a launched game with no balance patches at the moment. Maybe it's not perfect, but it is balanced enough considering that period. SFV also had balance issues at launch, every new fighting game has them. Also for UMVC3, it wasn't just because of the balance that ruined it, but also because it didn't got any type of support in terms of content and characters, unlike SF4 that got too many iterations and updates for it's on good that it became unbearable and annoying, while not getting any new games in the series (MVC) until only recently. And even if IJ2 was unbalanced (which is not the case), if the MVC games can thrive for being unbalanced, other games can as well.
Don't get me wrong. Injustice is super fun even with the bullshit, but this game probably has more lopsided matchups than SFV does. I'm also not saying SFV is balanced, but it is more balanced than I2. To be fair, i2 still hasn't had a major balance patch so I'm open to seeing how things turn out.

What does Joker do vs Superman/Black Adam? What does Swamp do vs Deadshot? They pretty much die.

Laura sucks vs Guile, but she can still take the game. Balrog pretty much loses to any grappler. Gief is considered bad but he can wreck shit. Bison is actually good. Fang... needs work I'll admit, but I've lost to him plenty with Laura ffs lol. Still, no character in SFV gets to just sit n die like Injustice is all I'm saying.
 
Don't get me wrong. Injustice is super fun even with the bullshit, but this game probably has more lopsided matchups than SFV does. I'm also not saying SFV is balanced, but it is more balanced than I2. To be fair, i2 still hasn't had a major balance patch so I'm open to seeing how things turn out.

What does Joker do vs Superman/Black Adam? What does Swamp do vs Deadshot? They pretty much die.

Laura sucks vs Guile, but she can still take the game. Balrog pretty much loses to any grappler. Gief is considered bad but he can wreck shit. Bison is actually good. Fang... needs work I'll admit, but I've lost to him plenty with Laura ffs lol. Still, no character in SFV gets to just sit n die like Injustice is all I'm saying.
Hum Bison wasn't good when sfV came out he was bad gief was bad too those characters got a lot of buffs SFV at release was unbalanced. Some will argue justly that it still isn't balanced. I don't get why you're using it as an example of perfect balance when it was flawed when it released and still is.
 
Read above, not saying perfect balance, just better balanced.
Arrow suck vs Superman, but he can still take the game. Atroscitus pretty much loses to any grappler. WonderWoman is considered bad but she can wreck shit. Bane is actually good. Swamp Thing... needs work I'll admit, but I've lost to him plenty ffs lol. Still, no character in Injustice gets to just sit n die likeSFV(Juri and Fang) is all I'm saying.
Also my point is that you're not comparing them in their vanilla state
 

alkipot

Purse first, ass last.
Neither Juri nor Fang get to just sit n die even in vanilla, but I see this isn't going anywhere so I'll just leave it alone. Injustice has the balance of gods while SFV only 3 characters are viable... yeah...
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Arrow suck vs Superman, but he can still take the game. Atroscitus pretty much loses to any grappler. WonderWoman is considered bad but she can wreck shit. Bane is actually good. Swamp Thing... needs work I'll admit, but I've lost to him plenty ffs lol. Still, no character in Injustice gets to just sit n die likeSFV(Juri and Fang) is all I'm saying.
Also my point is that you're not comparing them in their vanilla state
Atrocitus doesn't lose to any grappler wtf lol
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Don't get me wrong. Injustice is super fun even with the bullshit, but this game probably has more lopsided matchups than SFV does. I'm also not saying SFV is balanced, but it is more balanced than I2. To be fair, i2 still hasn't had a major balance patch so I'm open to seeing how things turn out.

What does Joker do vs Superman/Black Adam? What does Swamp do vs Deadshot? They pretty much die.

Laura sucks vs Guile, but she can still take the game. Balrog pretty much loses to any grappler. Gief is considered bad but he can wreck shit. Bison is actually good. Fang... needs work I'll admit, but I've lost to him plenty with Laura ffs lol. Still, no character in SFV gets to just sit n die like Injustice is all I'm saying.
No one said that IJ2's balance is perfect right now, and yes you claim that SFV's balance isn't perfect but just better, but you clearly comparing IJ2 right now, which is at the beginning of it's lifespan still, to SF5 which had almost a year and half of existence. Even if there are some bad MU's, it's not like there is a 10-0 MU in this game, or even 8-2. Also this game is still new and unlike previous NRS games, they don't wanna patch game so that we, the community, will figure stuff out long enough before we would get a patch.

IJ2, like I said before, is still more balanced at launch then almost every other fighting game in recent years. Until you come here and say that SF5, in it's first 2 months (which is February-April or 2016) was more balanced back then than how IJ2 is right now, and how terrible it supposedly is right now, plus with logical explanation, all of those comparisons are just invalid. No offense and not to be a jerk here, but that's the truth.
 

DeftMonk

Noob
i mean for real tho marvel can be pretty bullet hellish. but the 12 seconds you spend crouch walking toward a deadshot player is not bullet hellish. Its boring as fuck repitition. Imagine how bad SFV's popularity would be if fireballs didnt trade with each other and 10% of every match was crouching in on ryu/ken/whoever while u duck his fireballs.

I mean I love the game but from the outside looking in you guys have to realize this is what makes NRS games look nooby. I have tried many times to tell my friend bro seriously just try sneaking in utilizing every frame the best u can and when u get close and make the right read its so rewarding! They usually tell me its too rediculous looking to even try to enjoy. : /
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Imagine how bad SFV's popularity would be if fireballs didnt trade with each other and 10% of every match was crouching in on ryu/ken/whoever while u duck his fireballs.

I mean I love the game but from the outside looking in you guys have to realize this is what makes NRS games look nooby.
Snake Eyez just won a tournament.. You ever seen what a Snake Eyez match looks like?

When's the last time you saw a Deadshot in an Injustice 2 Top 8?

This is a completely biased talking point that's only used because it's an NRS game.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Snake Eyez just won a tournament.. You ever seen what a Snake Eyez match looks like?

When's the last time you saw a Deadshot in an Injustice 2 Top 8?

This is complete BS, and is a talking point only used because it's an NRS game.
This.

i mean for real tho marvel can be pretty bullet hellish. but the 12 seconds you spend crouch walking toward a deadshot player is not bullet hellish. Its boring as fuck repitition. Imagine how bad SFV's popularity would be if fireballs didnt trade with each other and 10% of every match was crouching in on ryu/ken/whoever while u duck his fireballs.

I mean I love the game but from the outside looking in you guys have to realize this is what makes NRS games look nooby. I have tried many times to tell my friend bro seriously just try sneaking in utilizing every frame the best u can and when u get close and make the right read its so rewarding! They usually tell me its too rediculous looking to even try to enjoy. : /
All I can say is try to keep doing what you did thus far, and tell your friends to do that as well.
 
Except SFV numbers have been going down throughout the year IDK If 1/3rd of a game on the decline is better
You make a good point. On the other hand, a lot of folks care about the amount of respect that NRS games get from tournaments relative to EVO. Obviously, tournaments are going to base the amount of respect given to a game, at least in part, on the relative amount of players.

Furthermore, we really want NRS to continue giving the pot bonuses and supporting tournaments in the way that Capcom has done for their games. NRS was not always doing this. I was on TYM years ago calling for NRS to mimic Capcom's support. So, if NRS is seeing some relative gains in participants compared to Capcom games, that would be a success.

I'm just trying to point out that not breaking 1k isn't the only thing to look at. There are some silver linings here. The thing about "closing the gap" I mentioned has potentially huge ramifications for the FGC in particular.

We're all on the same side in wanting NRS and the FGC to grow.
 
You can get on it, you can still take the match, its still winnable, you can avoid it. Tired of these appologetics. Sure, you can avoid a nuclear missile, but 90% of the time your gonna get vaporized. Outside looking in, it looks like a 2d shooter, everyone just walks back and begins sthrowing projectiles. Seems like only a handfull of characters are viable and everyone is using the same toons, whiteboi was an outlier and hype as hell, but people slept on that scarecrow matchup. If he can do it again at evo ill eat my words. NRS games r plagued with terrible balance in the cast and always, i mean ALWAYS, devolve into everyone using the same characters. The game is more about the characters carrying the players instead of the players carrying the characters, and nrs seems to balance based on counterpicking instead of character merits. Really hope they finally patch this game and make it fun to watch again. And why does it always seem the ones defending the game play the characters everyone is already annoyed with? Coincidence?
 

Swindle

Philanthropist & Asshole
You can get on it, you can still take the match, its still winnable, you can avoid it. Tired of these appologetics. Sure, you can avoid a nuclear missile, but 90% of the time your gonna get vaporized. Outside looking in, it looks like a 2d shooter, everyone just walks back and begins sthrowing projectiles. Seems like only a handfull of characters are viable and everyone is using the same toons, whiteboi was an outlier and hype as hell, but people slept on that scarecrow matchup. If he can do it again at evo ill eat my words. NRS games r plagued with terrible balance in the cast and always, i mean ALWAYS, devolve into everyone using the same characters. The game is more about the characters carrying the players instead of the players carrying the characters, and nrs seems to balance based on counterpicking instead of character merits. Really hope they finally patch this game and make it fun to watch again. And why does it always seem the ones defending the game play the characters everyone is already annoyed with? Coincidence?
If I remember correctly, MKX Top 16 at EVO last year featured 15-18 different characters/variations played during the matches.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
If I remember correctly, MKX Top 16 at EVO last year featured 15-18 different characters/variations played during the matches.
Indeed, both 2015 and 2016 at EVO were very diverse in terms of character choices.

You can get on it, you can still take the match, its still winnable, you can avoid it. Tired of these appologetics. Sure, you can avoid a nuclear missile, but 90% of the time your gonna get vaporized. Outside looking in, it looks like a 2d shooter, everyone just walks back and begins sthrowing projectiles. Seems like only a handfull of characters are viable and everyone is using the same toons, whiteboi was an outlier and hype as hell, but people slept on that scarecrow matchup. If he can do it again at evo ill eat my words. NRS games r plagued with terrible balance in the cast and always, i mean ALWAYS, devolve into everyone using the same characters. The game is more about the characters carrying the players instead of the players carrying the characters, and nrs seems to balance based on counterpicking instead of character merits. Really hope they finally patch this game and make it fun to watch again. And why does it always seem the ones defending the game play the characters everyone is already annoyed with? Coincidence?
It's not that we're apologists, you're just not good enough and rather jump on the bandwagon. I just had a set last night with another guy and we both jumped between Zoning and Rushdown, as I had to go between Zoning and Rushdown depending on the moment in the situation and he did the same. So stop jumping and start getting good.
 
This "git gud" excuse is the worst iv ever heard,mi didnt say 1 word about ,e playing the game, what i did sy was watcuing the game andnyou immediatly jump to git gud, at what? Watching? Get outta here with uour appologetics. ,lemme guess u play adam, aqua, supes, fate, atro, dead, or darksied? I could talk all day ahout your anecdotal matches last night with random guy online #4, but id rather then fix this game and make it amazing so it sticks around, cause at its core its a really good game. But the shenanigans need to be tonned down, needs to be about the player, not the character.

And who cares who was played in a top whatever, what matters is whats actually viable. Someone could represent green arrow as "played" but will prolky get shutdown by an aqua man or adam. Sheeva coulda been in top 8 played, but wouldnt get past the lao or kabal army. Viability is key, needs to be about the player, not the character. Nrs games have all been about the dirt the way paulo designs, and the character with the dumbest dirt usualy wins, and the dirt is usually outrageous.
 
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Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
This "git gud" excuse is the worst iv ever heard,mi didnt say 1 word about ,e playing the game, what i did sy was watcuing the game andnyou immediatly jump to git gud, at what? Watching? Get outta here with uour appologetics. ,lemme guess u play adam, aqua, supes, fate, atro, dead, or darksied? I could talk all day ahout your anecdotal matches last night with random guy online #4, but id rather then fix this game and make it amazing so it sticks around, cause at its core its a really good game. But the shenanigans need to be tonned down, needs to be about the player, not the character.

And who cares who was played in a top whatever, what matters is whats actually viable. Someone could represent green arrow as "played" but will prolky get shutdown by an aqua man or adam. Sheeva coulda been in top 8 played, but wouldnt get past the lao or kabal army. Viability is key, needs to be about the player, not the character. Nrs games have all been about the dirt the way paulo designs, and the character with the dumbest dirt usualy wins, and the dirt is usually outrageous.
If your problem is what you see rather then play then it makes your argument even less viable. Yes the spectating aspect is important, but when it comes to what makes the game viable, it's when you actually play, not watch.

And yes the characters that make it to the top do matter because it only goes to show that tier lists and/or easiness of characters aren't the be all, end all. Especially that since your whole problem is just about watching the game, that should solve your problem because, well, you watch the top 8.

And I'm playing Ivy, and planning to switch to Sub-Zero once he comes out. Never touched any of those characters in a high level. On that note though, you mentioned 7 characters, I've seen games that their lists of most viable characters are even shorter then that and they are clearly unbalanced. Not to mention that Catwoman, Batman, and also Ivy (my main) are very strong in this game. That makes 10. A game with 10 characters that are supposedly above them all isn't that bad at all, and not all of those 10 characters are Zoning-only characters (a la Atrocitus and Catwoman), so there is no "shooter vibe" at all. And if Scarecrow won CEO, that puts even that list in question, after a lot of people, well, watched it.

You're not helping at all, period. So let's just stop here.
 
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If your problem is what you see rather then play then it makes your argument even less viable. Yes the spectating aspect is important, but when it comes to what makes the game viable, it's when you actually play, not watch.

And yes the characters that make it to the top do matter because it only goes to show that tier lists and/or easiness of characters aren't the be all, end all. Especially that since your whole problem is just about watching the game, that should solve your problem because, well, you watch the top 8.

And I'm playing Ivy, and planning to switch to Sub-Zero once he comes out. Never touched any of those characters in a high level. On that note though, you mentioned 7 characters, I've seen games that their lists of most viable characters are even shorter then that and they are clearly unbalanced. Not to mention that Catwoman, Batman, and also Ivy (my main) are very strong in this game. That makes 10. A game with 10 characters that are supposedly above them all isn't that bad at all, and not all of those 10 characters are Zoning-only characters (a la Atrocitus and Catwoman), so there is no "shooter vibe" at all. And if Scarecrow won CEO, that puts even that list in question, after a lot of people, well, watched it.

You're not helping at all, period. So let's just stop here.
Already said whitboi was an outlier, nobody grinded the crow match, if he does same at evo after people havnt slept on it ill eat my words. I play the game, once again with the assumptions, jeez. Every match online seems to be a supes, aqua, or adam in ranked. I like ivy, if she was viable dragon woulda stuck with her, instead he went to who? Everyone when they lose a matchor two in tourney who do they switch to? I neversaid anything bout tier lists, but its obvious which characters are carrying the games competitive level so it does matter. Adam vadam mirrors, aquas etc.. there is a clear as day problem whether u see it or not, many others do, but i guess theyalso just need to "git gud". And those characters are strong, sure, but what didking do when he lost a couple matches, kr was it one match, strait to adam. I sure am not helping by posting my complaints on a forum where nrs probably isnt reading, but neither r you denying the existing imbalance nd problem with the zoning. The guy who made the point about ryu v ryu fireballs was on the money, its boring to play, its boring to watch, and people cn spam one move, be viable with no reprecussions. Many in this game can throw whatever out on plus frams, be safe and laugh. Too much is safe.. if u throw out, and its blocked u should be punished, not safe from retaliation. The footsie game is weak in this due to all the safe dirt. Would be a much better game if it werent fire and forget dirt and people had to actully overall play strategically.

The other games should have been fixed too, not left to linger. Any game with a 30 player cast should be balanced, not 6 to 10. We should be seeing swamp things, black canaries etc.. goin toe to to with adams and aquas in hype matches and not just turning it off cause u know the adam is gonna win. People just dont wanna compete under these conditions, and it turns off new players from the game. Same thing with alien, tanya, cyrax, kabal, batgirl, manhunter, etc.. No precedent set for low number of viable characters should ever be the bar to strive for, the bar should be higher we as a community should demnd balance and it baffles me people dont, its like they fear coverage or lack of nepotism from nrs and others in the community out of worry of becoming a pariah or ostracized by the rest. We will see at evo.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Already said whitboi was an outlier, nobody grinded the crow match, if he does same at evo after people havnt slept on it ill eat my words. I play the game, once again with the assumptions, jeez. Every match online seems to be a supes, aqua, or adam in ranked. I like ivy, if she was viable dragon woulda stuck with her, instead he went to who? Everyone when they lose a matchor two in tourney who do they switch to? I neversaid anything bout tier lists, but its obvious which characters are carrying the games competitive level so it does matter. Adam vadam mirrors, aquas etc.. there is a clear as day problem whether u see it or not, many others do, but i guess theyalso just need to "git gud". And those characters are strong, sure, but what didking do when he lost a couple matches, kr was it one match, strait to adam. I sure am not helping by posting my complaints on a forum where nrs probably isnt reading, but neither r you denying the existing imbalance nd problem with the zoning. The guy who made the point about ryu v ryu fireballs was on the money, its boring to play, its boring to watch, and people cn spam one move, be viable with no reprecussions. Many in this game can throw whatever out on plus frams, be safe and laugh. Too much is safe.. if u throw out, and its blocked u should be punished, not safe from retaliation. The footsie game is weak in this due to all the safe dirt. Would be a much better game if it werent fire and forget dirt and people had to actully overall play strategically.

The other games should have been fixed too, not left to linger. Any game with a 30 player cast should be balanced, not 6 to 10. We should be seeing swamp things, black canaries etc.. goin toe to to with adams and aquas in hype matches and not just turning it off cause u know the adam is gonna win. People just dont wanna compete under these conditions, and it turns off new players from the game. Same thing with alien, tanya, cyrax, kabal, batgirl, manhunter, etc.. No precedent set for low number of viable characters should ever be the bar to strive for, the bar should be higher we as a community should demnd balance and it baffles me people dont, its like they fear coverage or lack of nepotism from nrs and others in the community out of worry of becoming a pariah or ostracized by the rest. We will see at evo.
When I said that that there are 10 characters, I didn't mean that they are the only true viable characters. All I'm saying is that it isn't that bad in terms of how many characters you would usually see, and that doesn't mean you wouldn't see other characters.

Also about Ivy, she is very good, but she also very hard to use. D'Vorah in MKX also is very viable, but she is very hard to use both in Swarm Queen and Brood Mother Variations, that is way we didn't see that many D'Vorah matches in tournies, but they were still there and I've seen them. That is one of the reasons I'm also not gonna use Ivy as my true main anymore, but that doesn't mean she isn't good, because she is. Dragon could've also find other characters that are just more fun for him to use then Ivy, that doesn't mean she is not good, Dragon just probably found other characters that would be better for him in terms of fun or easiness of using, but Ivy is still a great character. Nimble Reptile is also one of the hardest characters to use in MKX, yet he's still very viable once you get how to use him. And this is true to other games from other companies, not just Midway or NRS/WB games.

Also for Scarecrow, no one grinded that MU? All of the top players should grind any MU if they wanna win. They probably faced at least one Scarecrow or two before CEO. Also for the online, I've also myself faced characters like Green Lantern, Harley Quinn, Scarecrow and Supergirl, none of those are characters that you've mentioned. I've also played MKX online and in tournies and I've faced every character, and there are some top characters I've faced only a few times despite how powerful they were. Alien used to be very powerful (and he still is) yet I faced Alien only a handful of times, and most of them were Tarkatan, not Acidic (although Tarkatan is very good too), and that's just one example.

And as for the other games, they were less balanced then MKX and IJ2 are now, but NRS keep making the balance better and better in each game, and even then they tried harder then some other companies out there with some of their games.

And finally about EVO, that scenario about having another character to take can happen in tournies after EVO as well like TCW. You can't put all of it on EVO alone.

Look, you just throwing stuff that the air, so let's just stop right here.

I'm done here.
 
When I said that that there are 10 characters, I didn't mean that they are the only true viable characters. All I'm saying is that it isn't that bad in terms of how many characters you would usually see, and that doesn't mean you wouldn't see other characters.

Also about Ivy, she is very good, but she also very hard to use. D'Vorah in MKX also is very viable, but she is very hard to use both in Swarm Queen and Brood Mother Variations, that is way we didn't see that many D'Vorah matches in tournies, but they were still there and I've seen them. That is one of the reasons I'm also not gonna use Ivy as my true main anymore, but that doesn't mean she isn't good, because she is. Dragon could've also find other characters that are just more fun for him to use then Ivy, that doesn't mean she is not good, Dragon just probably found other characters that would be better for him in terms of fun or easiness of using, but Ivy is still a great character. Nimble Reptile is also one of the hardest characters to use in MKX, yet he's still very viable once you get how to use him. And this is true to other games from other companies, not just Midway or NRS/WB games.

Also for Scarecrow, no one grinded that MU? All of the top players should grind any MU if they wanna win. They probably faced at least one Scarecrow or two before CEO. Also for the online, I've also myself faced characters like Green Lantern, Harley Quinn, Scarecrow and Supergirl, none of those are characters that you've mentioned. I've also played MKX online and in tournies and I've faced every character, and there are some top characters I've faced only a few times despite how powerful they were. Alien used to be very powerful (and he still is) yet I faced Alien only a handful of times, and most of them were Tarkatan, not Acidic (although Tarkatan is very good too), and that's just one example.

And as for the other games, they were less balanced then MKX and IJ2 are now, but NRS keep making the balance better and better in each game, and even then they tried harder then some other companies out there with some of their games.

And finally about EVO, that scenario about having another character to take can happen in tournies after EVO as well like TCW. You can't put all of it on EVO alone.

Look, you just throwing stuff that the air, so let's just stop right here.

I'm done here.
Dvorah was a great character, you are moving the goalpost with her and still missing the point. Alot of people used her, she was great at what she did, she was just outclassed by the problem tiers. Dragon was interviewed and he said something along the lines ver batim what u did, about if its not fun to use im not going to use it, and this was in relation to playing ivy, which he found fun, basically connected with the character. You can try and spin it all you want but all that was tossed in favor of easy wins and lack of viability at at end game level. I never said these characters werent good, stop promoting speech im not saying please. What i did say is these characters get outclassed by the problem tiers. So whos your new main? And why not stick to who you love? Its clearly ivy, make it work, remember what you said with arrogance? "Git gud"! Id love to see ivy compete in a top 8 and be on the verge of winning in a close match, not freed up by adam in a flawless victory. Reptile was great too, but couldnt compete against the tops like alien, tanya etc.. milky situation hit top 8 with reptile then people really learned the matchup and it became the usual bunch, mileena, alien, tanya etc.. the ones that could shut down the rest. i mean remember when they nerfed these characters slightly and everyone switched from them? And they buffed kitana and everyone was all of a sudden playin op kit? Sure these characters are viable, but at a certain point the characters just get outclassed not by the player, but by the character, which was my point. And the fact that as a community dont set the bar higher is beyond me. We should be arguing for balance for all. Mkx problem mainly is it became a game of russian roulette mixed with paper rock scissors, to many 50 50, was a pure guessing game, too much so, and whoever had the best dirt, i.e. guesswork, won. Sometimes it felt like playing the lottery based on reading a crystal ball.

I didnt mention the other characters cause i didnt have to, u keep moving the goalpost and im trying to stay focused. A small number of the cast is dominating the rest. It always happens, might always will and my point was we shouldnt settle for it. Enough of the safe bs, make stuff punishible if its thrown out, not safe, make it risk reward and skill based, not free. Its a fighting game and all logic of character power should be tossed for gameplay considerations and balance. And no people were green against bois crow, they didnt put the time in like they would have against the main ones they were liable to find in the tourney, and im not talkin bout just seein the character. These guys hit the lab and practice against strings, pressure, learn to poke, frame data against a lot of the cast, put in real work besides just seein em at a local. They werent ready for crow. I bet they will be at evo. Maybe im wrong like i said we will see at evo, which is y i said evo not another tournament. I hope i eat my words, bois crow was hype and easily best part of that tourney. A buddy and i were cheering loudly for that.

The forrest is clearly visable from the trees, not just air at all. The apologetics need to go. I want this game to be balanced and survive cause its really well made, story, animation, graphics, its fun, but it needs major tuning. People are cutting off streams when aqua, adam, supes etc.. get switched to or play cause their dominance is boring, i dont want that, i want hype, i want people watching. Im sure you do too. If the game was balanced king would never switch from his batman to aqua or adam, and he shouldnt have to.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Dvorah was a great character, you are moving the goalpost with her and still missing the point. Alot of people used her, she was great at what she did, she was just outclassed by the problem tiers. Dragon was interviewed and he said something along the lines ver batim what u did, about if its not fun to use im not going to use it, and this was in relation to playing ivy, which he found fun, basically connected with the character. You can try and spin it all you want but all that was tossed in favor of easy wins and lack of viability at at end game level. I never said these characters werent good, stop promoting speech im not saying please. What i did say is these characters get outclassed by the problem tiers. So whos your new main? And why not stick to who you love? Its clearly ivy, make it work, remember what you said with arrogance? "Git gud"! Id love to see ivy compete in a top 8 and be on the verge of winning in a close match, not freed up by adam in a flawless victory. Reptile was great too, but couldnt compete against the tops like alien, tanya etc.. milky situation hit top 8 with reptile then people really learned the matchup and it became the usual bunch, mileena, alien, tanya etc.. the ones that could shut down the rest. i mean remember when they nerfed these characters slightly and everyone switched from them? And they buffed kitana and everyone was all of a sudden playin op kit? Sure these characters are viable, but at a certain point the characters just get outclassed not by the player, but by the character, which was my point. And the fact that as a community dont set the bar higher is beyond me. We should be arguing for balance for all. Mkx problem mainly is it became a game of russian roulette mixed with paper rock scissors, to many 50 50, was a pure guessing game, too much so, and whoever had the best dirt, i.e. guesswork, won. Sometimes it felt like playing the lottery based on reading a crystal ball.

I didnt mention the other characters cause i didnt have to, u keep moving the goalpost and im trying to stay focused. A small number of the cast is dominating the rest. It always happens, might always will and my point was we shouldnt settle for it. Enough of the safe bs, make stuff punishible if its thrown out, not safe, make it risk reward and skill based, not free. Its a fighting game and all logic of character power should be tossed for gameplay considerations and balance. And no people were green against bois crow, they didnt put the time in like they would have against the main ones they were liable to find in the tourney, and im not talkin bout just seein the character. These guys hit the lab and practice against strings, pressure, learn to poke, frame data against a lot of the cast, put in real work besides just seein em at a local. They werent ready for crow. I bet they will be at evo. Maybe im wrong like i said we will see at evo, which is y i said evo not another tournament. I hope i eat my words, bois crow was hype and easily best part of that tourney. A buddy and i were cheering loudly for that.

The forrest is clearly visable from the trees, not just air at all. The apologetics need to go. I want this game to be balanced and survive cause its really well made, story, animation, graphics, its fun, but it needs major tuning. People are cutting off streams when aqua, adam, supes etc.. get switched to or play cause their dominance is boring, i dont want that, i want hype, i want people watching. Im sure you do too. If the game was balanced king would never switch from his batman to aqua or adam, and he shouldnt have to.
Wow, not only you're still going on but you clearly show you don't know the history of NRS/WB games. Reptile was excellent in MKX and while he had some bad MU's, none of them were that bad if you knew how to deal with them. All of Reptile's bad MU's were only 6-4 at worst and that's it. I played Reptile since day one, and he could've deal with everyone. Alien BTW wasn't a bad MU to Reptile at all. Noble Illusions also beat Sonic Fox using Reptile at the Kombat Kup finals tournament and there were other plays like Dat Pro Stunner and @HappyPow, who took first place twice at Majors with Reptile, both before and after the very last patch. D'vorah was also not used by that many players in tournaments, only a select few people used her, and that's because she was very hard to use, despite that she was very strong.


And speaking of Reptile, Poison Ivy is very strong, yet she is very hard to use. Characters can be very easy to use and yet they aren't that strong as some other characters. And Poison is very strong, just very hard to use. And yes I'm dropping her for Sub-Zero but not just because of that alone, I'm an MK fan more then a DC fan and I will always be, and Sub-Zero is an MK character and you can make him look like Reptile by using the Gear system, so it's a lot easier for me to get into Sub-Zero. Also I've even considered to jump into Scarecrow just because I've found him more fun then Ivy, Doctor Fate was also choice I've considered because his projectiles are similar to Reptile's, and Atrocitus was also in my mind because he does look very cool and he has a badass name. And there are other characters I've considered like Green Lantern, Green Arrow (he was my main in IJ1), Batman and Joker. I connect to all of those characters both in terms of gameplay and fun, but Sub-Zero is the easiest for me to do so with out all of those, and if any of those other characters will fill the bad MU's of Sub-Zero, I would just pick the one I like the most out of them and play that character alongside Sub-Zero.

And speaking of character choices, Forever King is someone who is well known to be able to play multiple characters. And yes Batman is his favorite, and I don't know against which characters he decided to not pick Batman against, but he probably picked those other characters against characters that Batman, who is one of the stronger characters in IJ2 (and yes he is good, it's not like he's weak or anything), would have a hard to deal with, just like these characters would've hard MU's as well too.

Also for Milky, You're saying

QUOTE="milky situation hit top 8 with reptile then people really learned the matchup and it became the usual bunch, mileena, alien, tanya etc.."[/QUOTE]

How does that make any sense? People got to use the "usual bunch" just because Milky used Reptile at EVO? And the whole thing about at which after patch people have used this and character, that's only because people, just like you, were to much of crybabies and wanted NRS to patch the game just to make it easier for them, rather then go to the lab and check things out. But the characters were viable, people were just lazy and put all of the blame on the character. I never had that feeling about Reptile no matter how many I've lost to certain players, I knew it was me, not that character, because I knew how good Reptile is, and I've got some amazing wins with him as well including full sets, both casual and tournament sets, against characters such as GM Sub, Impostor Shinnok, Sektor Triborg, Hellfire Scorpion, Master of Souls Ermac, Piercing Mileena etc, all who are hard MU's for Reptile, and also other characters that were top tier in general like Alien, D'Vorah and Quan Chi, and I've beaten them all. And about the lab, I've checked a lot of things at the lab and I've found some stuff that not many people are aware of with Reptile in MKX, just like I've made my combo video for Ivy to show some simple combos for her because she is very hard to use, and I've found some really good ones. We all were matured as a community and we want to check things before begging for patches. NRS also not going to patch this game until after EVO because of that reason. I've seen that even in the Street Fighter community, people don't wanna go to the lab and they are just crying things like "there are no footsies in SFV".

But what makes you're case even worse is that you want NRS to patch the game now just for the sake of spectating the game. Aside from the fact that the game IS INDEED MORE BALANCED then most other fighters in recent years, your whole case is stupid, sorry but that's the truth. Just because you see some characters more then others that's not what's gonna kill a game. Every fighting game is gonna have characters that are more accessible to use then others, that's not saying that other characters aren't viable. Especially that Poison Ivy was at the Combo Breaker Top 8 and Scarecrow took CEO.

What needs to go away aren't the "apologists", but the haters like you. IJ2 is very hype, just like MKX was extremely hyped. IJ2 is still relevantly new, and people can discover to encounter those bad MU's for their characters, yet the game is still hyped. And if that's not good enough for you, tough shit, learn to deal with it.

I'm done, this time for real.
 
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Swindle

Philanthropist & Asshole
NRS have improved AND innovated with each new game they've put out. I don't know if I can say the same about the other supposed "top" FG developers.
 
You misused what i said about milky 100% and went on a diatribe about your personal experiences that dont reflect anything but you vs whomever. I didnt say he was the cause of anything, jeez man, i know you can read, but youre so angry right now and trying to be a badass that youre making up stuff that im saying and not really following. The vein is showing, breath before you have an aneurysm. You keep threatening to leave as if your presence is required and we need you. It aint that serious, its just a discussion.

The zoning is out of control, some characters get shut down, you can walk forward on the 100 mile long stages and if u get caught once ur back to square one or on the other side walking and ducking again, cept fate which u cant duck due to the mid. Its a 2d shooter half the time, the chip damage is way too much, its boring to play and watch. And MB roll is damn bear useless on it, and unreliable. Zoning tools are great to creat a bit of space to create footsie situations, but when you can spam them over and over without recourse, yes its a problem. Iv even seen ivy zone, batman zone, its a huge problem with the game.

Almost every nrs game seems as if its balanced based on counterpicking. I watch and play alot of games, fighting included in tourney. NRS games r always the ones where if someone loses they go to a diff character from who they consider their main. Thats telling when it comes to balance. And its usualy the problem, boring overused tiers they switch to.

P.s. are you really gone this time?

 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
You misused what i said about milky 100% and went on a diatribe about your personal experiences that dont reflect anything but you vs whomever. I didnt say he was the cause of anything, jeez man, i know you can read, but youre so angry right now and trying to be a badass that youre making up stuff that im saying and not really following. The vein is showing, breath before you have an aneurysm. You keep threatening to leave as if your presence is required and we need you. It aint that serious, its just a discussion.

The zoning is out of control, some characters get shut down, you can walk forward on the 100 mile long stages and if u get caught once ur back to square one or on the other side walking and ducking again, cept fate which u cant duck due to the mid. Its a 2d shooter half the time, the chip damage is way too much, its boring to play and watch. And MB roll is damn bear useless on it, and unreliable. Zoning tools are great to creat a bit of space to create footsie situations, but when you can spam them over and over without recourse, yes its a problem. Iv even seen ivy zone, batman zone, its a huge problem with the game.

Almost every nrs game seems as if its balanced based on counterpicking. I watch and play alot of games, fighting included in tourney. NRS games r always the ones where if someone loses they go to a diff character from who they consider their main. Thats telling when it comes to balance. And its usualy the problem, boring overused tiers they switch to.

P.s. are you really gone this time?

Whatever, didn't read your post, and not going to.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
You misused what i said about milky 100% and went on a diatribe about your personal experiences that dont reflect anything but you vs whomever. I didnt say he was the cause of anything, jeez man, i know you can read, but youre so angry right now and trying to be a badass that youre making up stuff that im saying and not really following. The vein is showing, breath before you have an aneurysm. You keep threatening to leave as if your presence is required and we need you. It aint that serious, its just a discussion.

The zoning is out of control, some characters get shut down, you can walk forward on the 100 mile long stages and if u get caught once ur back to square one or on the other side walking and ducking again, cept fate which u cant duck due to the mid. Its a 2d shooter half the time, the chip damage is way too much, its boring to play and watch. And MB roll is damn bear useless on it, and unreliable. Zoning tools are great to creat a bit of space to create footsie situations, but when you can spam them over and over without recourse, yes its a problem. Iv even seen ivy zone, batman zone, its a huge problem with the game.

Almost every nrs game seems as if its balanced based on counterpicking. I watch and play alot of games, fighting included in tourney. NRS games r always the ones where if someone loses they go to a diff character from who they consider their main. Thats telling when it comes to balance. And its usualy the problem, boring overused tiers they switch to.

P.s. are you really gone this time?

Who is shutting who down with zoning? Name actual matches, in real tournaments.

And don't give me some random player in pools who's bad at dealing with projectiles in any game -- I mean actual, top players who know how to play the game, and are being gatekept from Top 8 because of the zoning.

You guys are all "the zoning, the zoning" but then you watch tournaments and this is not the case at all. So give me specific examples of top player vs. top player where it's worse than any other typical 2D fighting game on the market.