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Injustice 2 numbers for EVO revealed, no 8AM pools

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
Only SFV was on TV -- nothing else was on ESPN2.

And I'm not sure if that's happening again this year. The announcement in 2016 was already made by this time.
Well, it doesn't matter how many are televised.. SFV is the last event, and it has to start on time... but yeah.. I also have not heard anything about it either. I guess it had bad ratings?
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Maybe the launch entrance numbers are less because IJ2 was release on consoles only and there was no PC release. Remember MKX was launched on both PC and consoles. Being a PC only guy, I don’t have access to IJ2.
MKX sold like 9 times more on consoles (PS4 and XB1) then on PC. Yes it was partially because WB hired HVS to work on the PC port and let NRS to work only on the consoles version, but even after WB did everything they could've done to fix it, the consoles version sold way more then the PC version.

I very sure IJ2 would have a high number of sales for sure. Maybe not as high as MKX's, but still very high nonetheless.

Well, it doesn't matter how many are televised.. SFV is the last event, and it has to start on time... but yeah.. I also have not heard anything about it either. I guess it had bad ratings?
Yes the ratings weren't that good. In fact @Pig Of The Hut showed a chart that showed that MKX' Chasing the Cup series actually got better ratings overall then SFV's EVO finals.
 
Zoning. I went to MKX evo both years and had the intention of playing Injustice 2 at evo this year. But after playing the game, I lost interest. I don't want to have to work my way in just to get through nearly mindless zoning. Don't have the patience or the desire. Call me bad, call me uncompetitive, I get it. But it killed my passion for it and I'm sure I am not alone.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Zoning. I went to MKX evo both years and had the intention of playing Injustice 2 at evo this year. But after playing the game, I lost interest. I don't want to have to work my way in just to get through nearly mindless zoning. Don't have the patience or the desire. Call me bad, call me uncompetitive, I get it. But it killed my passion for it and I'm sure I am not alone.
As people said here earlier, myself included, Zoning isn't what is going to kill a game as whole. Maybe some people won't like to deal with it, either because they don't know how or because they're just not good enough. But that's not what is gonna kill a game.
 
There's no inherent counter zoning mechanic in the game(no.. MB forwardash doesn't work as a proper counter zoning tool). The zoners can keep throwing their projectiles without consecuence (because the insane recovery of such balls) the risk reward is heavily in zoners favor ( and the short strings, slow forward movement don't help with that).

Also, From a casual perspective zoning is a snooze-fest (specially the braindead kind). Let me explain. If the zoner had do do a complicated command to do their zoning. They would gain more respect. Instead We got this:

I hope You all get the idea. That's the problem with this game. Braindead zoning is indeed more boring than doing MKX combos any day.
 

Marlow

Premium
Premium Supporter
There's no inherent counter zoning mechanic in the game(no.. MB forwardash doesn't work as a proper counter zoning tool). The zoners can keep throwing their projectiles without consecuence (because the insane recovery of such balls) the risk reward is heavily in zoners favor ( and the short strings, slow forward movement don't help with that).

Also, From a casual perspective zoning is a snooze-fest (specially the braindead kind). Let me explain. If the zoner had do do a complicated command to do their zoning. They would gain more respect. Instead We got this:

I hope You all get the idea. That's the problem with this game. Braindead zoning is indeed more boring than doing MKX combos any day.
Watching Combo Breaker and CEO, it didn't seem like much of a problem.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Well, it doesn't matter how many are televised.. SFV is the last event, and it has to start on time... but yeah.. I also have not heard anything about it either. I guess it had bad ratings?
They left extra time for this so that no event running late would push the TV schedule.

Yeah, the ratings weren't good -- which is probably to be expected, since they announced it 2 weeks before EVO and didn't really advertise it (plus all the gamers watched on Twitch).
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
There's no inherent counter zoning mechanic in the game(no.. MB forwardash doesn't work as a proper counter zoning tool). The zoners can keep throwing their projectiles without consecuence (because the insane recovery of such balls) the risk reward is heavily in zoners favor ( and the short strings, slow forward movement don't help with that).

Also, From a casual perspective zoning is a snooze-fest (specially the braindead kind). Let me explain. If the zoner had do do a complicated command to do their zoning. They would gain more respect. Instead We got this:

I hope You all get the idea. That's the problem with this game. Braindead zoning is indeed more boring than doing MKX combos any day.
You're taking one example yet people have proved hear already how you can deal with the Zoning. read the posts on the thread.

Seems like what kills games is over patching.
What over patching? There were no balance patches at all for this game.
 
There are three positives here:

1) MKX had about 1/5th the number that SFV did last year, and this year IGAU2 will have about 1/3rd. That's a pretty significant gain, percentage-wise. Yeah, maybe raw numbers aren't great in a down year, but it means something to gain on the relative number of players.

Capcom has been supporting SF with pot bonuses in year round tournaments for a long, long time now. NRS just started doing that in the last couple of years. Seriously, on a relative basis, this looks like a good year for an NRS game, particularly given that Injustice isn't as popular as MK.

2) There's a good chance that the NRS community has scared off the tourists. Seriously, who thinks a Capcom guy is going to be able to dabble in IGAU2 on the side and make top 8 at EVO? I don't see it happening and I think the Capcom tourists know it. It might have been worth giving it a shot the first year IGAU1 came out, with the new back to block mechanic and the community still coming off of the first game it marshalled up large competitive play in: MK9. Well, years have gone by and it didn't happen in the 2nd year of EVO for IGAU1, didn't happen in MKX, probably not happening in IGAU2. Some of them tried at Combo Breaker and CEO and couldn't make top 8 at a major. With the interactibles, different character types, and even just each character having their own game where you need deep match-up knowledge, NRS games are harder to learn than many fighting games. So, while it would be nicer to see better numbers, it also means people playing other games are recognizing they might as well save their money since the NRS peeps aren't free.

3) Closing the gap sucks: I'm sure there are a lot of reasons SFV is down, which would drag all of EVO down, but hopefully their brilliant idea to make SFV more amateur-friendly is bombing out. It'd be worth a down year for all games in the FGC if game companies realize that we don't want that. I don't want a game where with a couple months of practice I have a shot at beating Sonic Fox because the mechanics make it easy for me. Sounds like a s--t game.
 

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
I don't think Injustice 2 being on Saturday is "disrespect", I think it's logistics. I don't even think it's a problem though. I'd rather have a Saturday night finals than a Sunday day finals anyways.

It's about exposure, people that will never watch fighting games another day out the whole year will watch Evo Sunday. It's the Wrestlemania of Fighting Games. So people want their game on that day for maximum eyeballs and potential new fans/players. Smash WII U had 2637 entrants last year and was a Saturday game, it peaked at 71k viewers. Here's the peak view numbers:

Tekken 7: Fated Retribution (Saturday)

35,498 viewers on main channel at peak

Smash Bros. Wii U (Saturday)

71,141 viewers on main channel at peak

Pokken Tournament (Saturday)

23,980 viewers on main channel at peak

Killer Instinct (Saturday)

25,596 viewers on main channel at peak

Mortal Kombat XL (Sunday)

104,586 viewers on main channel at peak

Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 (Sunday)


121,878 viewers on main channel at peak

Guilty Gear Xrd Revelator (Sunday)

136,914 main channel / 148,811 total twitch viewers

Super Smash Bros. Melee (Sunday)

219,125 main channel / 232,900 total twitch viewers

Street Fighter V (Sunday)

182,716 main channel / 213,927 total twitch viewers
 

alkipot

Purse first, ass last.
NRS games will more than likely never do SF numbers. Poor balance and easy mode zoning get very, very boring to watch for the average viewer, while SF tends to be more exciting to watch in general. Dizzies are hype, and you're not watching a "crawl through these projectiles" show for a majority of the match.

Street Fighter also has the whole fighting game legacy behind it.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
NRS games will more than likely never do SF numbers. Poor balance and easy mode zoning get very, very boring to watch for the average viewer, while SF tends to be more exciting to watch in general. Dizzies are hype, and you're not watching a "crawl through these projectiles" show for a majority of the match.

Street Fighter also has the whole fighting game legacy behind it.
Balance has almost never affected numbers. This is a myth people like to perpetuate, but unbalanced fighting games have been just as popular (or more) in the FGC entrants-wise as supposedly balanced ones.
 

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
NRS games will more than likely never do SF numbers. Poor balance and easy mode zoning get very, very boring to watch for the average viewer, while SF tends to be more exciting to watch in general. Dizzies are hype, and you're not watching a "crawl through these projectiles" show for a majority of the match.

Street Fighter also has the whole fighting game legacy behind it.
Marvel is one of the most entered games consistently and is not only unbalanced but one of the top teams is pure bullet hell. Melee is extremely top heavy and features heavy zoning. Balance means nothing, zoning means nothing. People just use it as an excuse not to like NRS games.
 
NRS games will more than likely never do SF numbers. Poor balance and easy mode zoning get very, very boring to watch for the average viewer, while SF tends to be more exciting to watch in general. Dizzies are hype, and you're not watching a "crawl through these projectiles" show for a majority of the match.

Street Fighter also has the whole fighting game legacy behind it.
Like SFV was or is balanced
 
There are three positives here:

1) MKX had about 1/5th the number that SFV did last year, and this year IGAU2 will have about 1/3rd. That's a pretty significant gain, percentage-wise. Yeah, maybe raw numbers aren't great in a down year, but it means something to gain on the relative number of players.

Capcom has been supporting SF with pot bonuses in year round tournaments for a long, long time now. NRS just started doing that in the last couple of years. Seriously, on a relative basis, this looks like a good year for an NRS game, particularly given that Injustice isn't as popular as MK.

2) There's a good chance that the NRS community has scared off the tourists. Seriously, who thinks a Capcom guy is going to be able to dabble in IGAU2 on the side and make top 8 at EVO? I don't see it happening and I think the Capcom tourists know it. It might have been worth giving it a shot the first year IGAU1 came out, with the new back to block mechanic and the community still coming off of the first game it marshalled up large competitive play in: MK9. Well, years have gone by and it didn't happen in the 2nd year of EVO for IGAU1, didn't happen in MKX, probably not happening in IGAU2. Some of them tried at Combo Breaker and CEO and couldn't make top 8 at a major. With the interactibles, different character types, and even just each character having their own game where you need deep match-up knowledge, NRS games are harder to learn than many fighting games. So, while it would be nicer to see better numbers, it also means people playing other games are recognizing they might as well save their money since the NRS peeps aren't free.

3) Closing the gap sucks: I'm sure there are a lot of reasons SFV is down, which would drag all of EVO down, but hopefully their brilliant idea to make SFV more amateur-friendly is bombing out. It'd be worth a down year for all games in the FGC if game companies realize that we don't want that. I don't want a game where with a couple months of practice I have a shot at beating Sonic Fox because the mechanics make it easy for me. Sounds like a s--t game.
Except SFV numbers have been going down throughout the year IDK If 1/3rd of a game on the decline is better
 

alkipot

Purse first, ass last.
Marvel is one of the most entered games consistently and is not only unbalanced but one of the top teams is pure bullet hell. Melee is extremely top heavy and features heavy zoning. Balance means nothing, zoning means nothing. People just use it as an excuse not to like NRS games.
Marvel has the whole legacy thing as well and a history of imbalance. Pre-MvC3 was the patchless Marvel era, so you had to take what you got, now Marvel 3 has steadily declined due to too much imbalance and lack of patches. You think if patching was available in Marvel 2 and beforehand it wouldn't have happened? C'mon man.

Like SFV was or is balanced
Far more balanced than Injustice. Way more viable characters. Top 5-10 is debatable save for a few.
 
Marvel has the whole legacy thing as well and a history of imbalance. Pre-MvC3 was the patchless Marvel era, so you had to take what you got, now Marvel 3 has steadily declined due to too much imbalance and lack of patches. You think if patching was available in Marvel 2 and beforehand it wouldn't have happened? C'mon man.



Far more balanced than Injustice. Way more viable characters. Top 5-10 is debatable save for a few.
I'm gonna be honest here I don't think SFV hadmore viable character percentage wise(injustice has a lot more characters) Zangief Fang and Bison for example were trash then came Alex trash too and Juri trash etc. SFV was many thing but balanced at release it was not, I'm sure other can explain it better than me but SFV shouldn't be named as an example of good balance in a fighting game
 

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
Marvel has the whole legacy thing as well and a history of imbalance. Pre-MvC3 was the patchless Marvel era, so you had to take what you got, now Marvel 3 has steadily declined due to too much imbalance and lack of patches. You think if patching was available in Marvel 2 and beforehand it wouldn't have happened? C'mon man.



Far more balanced than Injustice. Way more viable characters. Top 5-10 is debatable save for a few.

Stop with this legacy thing because games that have been around longer than Injustice aren't getting the same amount of entrants. KI has a legacy, where is it? Legacy, balance, zoning, it all means nothing because the most popular games hardly have a legacy (Smash), top heavy/questionable balance (SFV), or prevalent zoning (Marvel). As far as patching who's to say considering any game that needed balance from capcom just got a new iteration of the game. On top of that marvel 3 only got patches the first year thanks to licensing so, again, who knows. The reason marvel us dwindling is because a new one us coming out soon and there's no money in it so interest goes to other games.


SFV, like Injustice, at least in Season 1 was very top heavy. It certainly was not unquestionably more balanced.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Marvel has the whole legacy thing as well and a history of imbalance. Pre-MvC3 was the patchless Marvel era, so you had to take what you got, now Marvel 3 has steadily declined due to too much imbalance and lack of patches. You think if patching was available in Marvel 2 and beforehand it wouldn't have happened? C'mon man.



Far more balanced than Injustice. Way more viable characters. Top 5-10 is debatable save for a few.
IJ2 is very balanced for a launched game with no balance patches at the moment. Maybe it's not perfect, but it is balanced enough considering that period. SFV also had balance issues at launch, every new fighting game has them. Also for UMVC3, it wasn't just because of the balance that ruined it, but also because it didn't got any type of support in terms of content and characters, unlike SF4 that got too many iterations and updates for it's on good that it became unbearable and annoying, while not getting any new games in the series (MVC) until only recently. And even if IJ2 was unbalanced (which is not the case), if the MVC games can thrive for being unbalanced, other games can as well.