Match-Up Discussion - Impostor Impostor Living MU Thread

[ArmedCalf]

Hey guys, I'm really trying to work out who this variation beats, loses to, etc. As it turns out, I don't have as much MU experience against a lot of the unknown variations as I thought I did. Last time I made a thread like this I made a lot of assumptions, so this time I want to gather input from all of you folks. I'm pretty bad at constantly updating threads but I'm gonna try to stay on top of this one as best I can. I'll list what (I think) know - hopefully you folks can fill in the blanks. I'm also going to keep gathering MU knowledge by playing some people that are ridiculous with their characters. I'm willing to listen to any reason why I could be wrong! I'd love to change my way of thinking if it means having an easier time with the MU. I'll explain why I have MU's the way they are as well. Keep in mind this MU chart is only for Impostor. If the MU number reads like this (Lackey 7-3) it means Impostor beats that variation 7-3.

PREDATOR

vs Warrior: 6-4
vs Hunter: ???
vs HQT: 5-5 possibly 4-6

ALIEN:

vs Tarkatan: 4-6 (I'll fight that to the death lol)
vs Acidic: 5-5
vs Konjurer: ???

JASON:

vs Unstoppable: 5-5
vs Slasher 6-4
vs Relentless: ???

KUNG LAO:

vs Buzz Saw: 6-4
vs Tempest: 5-5 (maybe 6-4 now but not sure)
vs Hat Trick: ???

JAX:

vs Pumped Up: 5-5
vs Wrestler: 4-6
vs Heavy Weapons: 5-5

SONYA: (my Sonya exp is surprisingly limited)

vs Special Forces: ???
vs Demo: ???
vs Covert Ops: 4-6

KENSHI:

vs Balanced: 6-4
vs Kenjutsu: 6-4
vs Possessed: ???

KITANA:

vs Royal Storm: 5-5
vs Assassin: ???
vs Mournful: ???

SCORPION:

vs Inferno: 6-4
vs Ninjitsu: 5-5
vs Hellfire ???

SUB-ZERO:

vs Grandmaster: 5-5
vs Cryomancer: 6-4
vs Unbreakable: 6-4

MILEENA:

vs Piercing: 5-5
vs Ravenous: ???
vs Ethereal: ???

TAKEDA:

vs Shirai Ryu: 5-5 (I don't think he loses this anymore)
vs Lasher: ???
vs Ronin: ???

CASSIE CAGE:

vs Hollywood: 6-4
vs Spec Ops: 6-4
vs Brawler: 6-4

(Honestly I don't really have Spec Ops or Brawler experience. I just don't see how the tools she gains from those variations help her deal with 20% safe block strings. Feel free to show me the way. Those MU numbers could be better for Shinnok as well imo.)

JACQUI BRIGGS:

vs Shotgun: 4-6 (maybe 5-5)
vs Full Auto: 4-6 (maybe 5-5)
vs High Tech: ???

KUNG JIN:

vs Bojutsu: 6-4
vs Ancestral: ???
vs Shaolin: 5-5

TANYA:

vs Kobu Jutsu: 6-4
vs Pyromancer: 6-4
vs Dragon Naginata: 6-4

BO RAI CHO:

vs Drunken Master: ???
vs Bartitsu: ???
vs Dragon Breath:???

LEATHERFACE:

vs Killer: 6-4
vs Pretty Lady: 6-4
vs Butcher: ???

SHINNOK:

vs Impostor: ---
vs Bone Shaper: 5-5 (it's a hard 5-5)
vs Necromancer: 6-4

KANO:

vs Cutthroat: 4-6
vs Cybernetic: ???
vs Commando: 5-5 maybe 6-4

JOHNNY CAGE:

vs A-List: 4-6
vs Stunt Double: 4-6
vs Fisticuffs: 6-4

ERRON BLACK:

vs Outlaw: 6-4
vs Marksman: 5-5
vs Gunslinger: 5-5

LIU KANG:

vs Dragon's Fire: 4-6
vs Flame Fist: ???
vs Dualist: 5-5

ERMAC:

vs Master of Souls: 6-4
vs Mystic: 4-6
vs Spectral: ???

KOTAL KAHN:

vs War God: 5-5
vs Blood God: ???
vs Sun God: 6-4

REPTILE:

vs Noxious: 6-4
vs Deceptive: ???
vs Nimble: ???

FERRA/TORR:

vs Lackey: 6-4
vs Vicious: 6-4
vs Ruthless: 5-5 or 6-4

D'VORAH:

vs Swarm Queen: 3-7
vs Venomous: 5-5 maybe 6-4
vs Brood Mother: 5-5

RAIDEN:

vs Thunder God: ???
vs Displacer: ???
vs Master of Storms: ???

QUAN CHI:

vs Summoner: 5-5
vs Sorcerer: 5-5
vs Warlock: 6-4

GORO:

vs Kuatan Warrior: 5-5 (it's a hard 5-5)
vs Dragon Fangs: 5-5 (it's a hard 5-5)
vs Tigrar Fury: ???

TREMOR:

vs Aftershock: 6-4
vs Metallic ???
vs Crystalline ??? ( from what I've played it's 5-5 but I would like more input)

TRI-BORG:

vs Sektor: ???
vs Cyrax: ???
vs CSZ: ???
vs Smoke: ???


Alright that's everyone: I'm gonna tag some other Impostor Shinnok mains or people that mess with him to help fill in some of the blanks @Doctor Stabs @STB Damashi @D. R. @Youphemism

If you're reading this and you see your character with a ???, feel free to give me some input. I'd also love to play and see first hand what the MU is like. Some of the ??? because I genuinely have no idea what the MU is like, others I put because I'm don't feel confident in the exp I have to give an exact number. Also, it's worth noting I think every MU number goes up by 1 when Shinnok plays on either Emperor's Courtyard and Kuatan Jungle. Let's fill this thread up folks!

 

[Alright RyRy]

I agree with the Dragon Fangs Goro number.

I do believe that Noxious Reptile is a 5-5 vs Imposter.

 

[ArmedCalf]

I agree with the Dragon Fangs Goro number.

I do believe that Noxious Reptile is a 5-5 vs Imposter.

thank you for sharing your opi - nah I'm just fucking around.

What makes it 5-5 in your opinion? I think Reptile has a decently hard time deal with IA pressure. I think Shinnok gets around his zoning easy enough and I think there's enough dirt with the force ball steal that it can make it difficult for Reptile to block some of his stuff. That's why I have it at 6-4 for Shinnok.

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

Can you elaborate Impostor vs Kang?

 

[ArmedCalf]

Can you elaborate Impostor vs Kang?

I don't have enough FF experience to talk about it. Dragon's Fire can d2 the tele pretty easily and if he wants to spend the meter he can punish HS with flying kick. Impostor wants to be up close to mix but he doesn't deal with pressure well because his armour is shit. DF is very good up close and can give Impostor a hard time. He can deal with Shinnok from full screen as well with his zoning. Impostor steals flying kick which is kind of shitty -can't loop it and can't whiff it to continue the loop. It could be 5-5 honestly, but I think Liu just has an easier time in the MU.

Dualist is a lot easier to deal with, but if Dualist gets Impostor in the corner it can be tricky. You can get out after b12 but you have to worry about armour. Impostor will either trade with EX shoulder after Dualist goes for a f213 cancel or his armour will get shredded. I think Impostor beats Dualist everywhere else on the screen but the corner can really be tricky.

 

[Daemantalo]

In terms of Impostor, I feel he has an even match-up on Cybernetic Kano, possibly being a 5-5 even

Pros Over Cybernetic Kano
+His D4 is really good, good enough to contend and play footsies with Kano, plus, you can get a pressure game going with D4xxHell Sparks

+Better Mix-Up/Pressure game... Provided you have a bar... Again, Cybernetic lacks an Overhead and his biggest form of pressure involves the B31 low string, which is plus 1, but the pushback allows you to retaliate with a D4 (low profiling ftw)

+Better mobility... The teleport is really going to aid in this match-up. The knives are fast and a good Kano will always try to stay as far away as they can from Hell Sparks. However, you can still TP and catch Kano in recovery frames if you do your teleport fast enough.

+More damage off of midscreen combos... Although this isn't a huge thing, Impostor Shinnok can get a little bit more mileage out of his combos midscreen than Cybernetic Kano can. The constant need to watch out between the throw and Overhead when in the mimicry stun is also quite a bit of a scary mindgame to implement.

+Midscreen Control feels a little bit better due to Hell Sparks covering a lot of space. Granted, you'll mainly try to utilize it to catch backdashes in the neutral and to scare Kano from starting his Ball Roll game. Of course, no Kano worth his salt is going to throw that move out Willy nilly, but it just eliminates options, and if someone does try to do it and he gets hit by HS, he's eating a full combo into mimicry mix-up if you've got a bar.

+You build meter fast than he does

Cons against Cybernetic Kano
-Your meterless stagger pressure options are much worse than his. You know the frame data of your character. I don't need to tell you how negative he is on block with most strings.

-General Footsies... I have no idea if any of your tools can even beat B2 or even F4 besides your D4 and your Hell Sparks. F4 and B4 maybe? Again, I'm not too sure. B2 is half a screen and is safe as long as Cybernetic Kano doesn't go for the grab ender, F4 is -5ish, but Kano can't get anything really off of it unless he hit confirms into DB1, which is actually punishable.

- Kano's ridiculously good backdashes gets him out of so many sticky situations. Shinnok pressure is no different. If you have no bar, Shinnok has a tough time playing the game. Lol.

- Easy anti-airs... B1 is great for catching Shinnok out of the air. The general gameplay is to bait a jump in with knives then convert into a restand or Ball ender combo. Plus, Up Ball is FANTASTIC.

- Armored Combo Starter, this is huge. Kano has access to a safe, armored, convertible wake-up that could give him a decent amount of damage and Zoning position. Armored Kano Ball is just fantastic. The EX Upball allows for safe block strings as well.

-You steal Kano Ball, which if I'm not mistaken, is punishable on block, and leads to a knockdown. Not the best move to steal tbh.

-Fullscreen midknives are a giant pain in this match-up I'm sure.

Those are my opinions and thoughts on the Cybernetic MU, Calf. Will be willing to discuss further and whatnot.

EDIT: Just seen Dr. Stabs tagged in this. He's one of the more qualified guys to speak about Cyber.

 

[Indecisive]

Why doesn't HW Jax/Pumped up Jax Also Beat Imposter? Kind of curious.

 

[Blewdew]

Ferra torr is worse. 6-4 or 7-3 for imposter not even ruthless can deal with him.

 

[EMPR_FEAR]

Shotgun and full auto are 5-5! But high tech dudeeeee !! That mu can be 6-4 and possibly 7-3 hell sparks is a big problem for her in that variation

 

[ArmedCalf]

Why doesn't HW Jax/Pumped up Jax Also Beat Imposter? Kind of curious.

I was just talking to Ominous about all this. I think base jax vs Impostor is a 5-5. I think Jax deals with Impostor pretty nicely from all ranges but if Impostor lands a hit it can do some really nice damage. He steals DP which is -7 and tricky for a Jax to punish every time, it does nice chip and OH DP is a risky but hella damaging vortex in the corner.

So Wrestler's added tools make Jax's up close game even scarier which is bad for Impostor. Impostor has a hard enough time with pressure as is and he wants to get up close and mix - doing that against Wrestler is hard. Pumped Up and Heavy Weapons actually give Impostor more opportunities to use teleport. Ground Pound and LAW rocket create more opportunities to get in and get that mix/damage. That's why I have the MU numbers listed differently. I will admit that I had to think long and hard about what I was gonna say about the Jax MU numbers.

 

[ArmedCalf]

Ferra torr is worse. 6-4 or 7-3 for imposter not even ruthless can deal with him.

I think Ruthless would be 6-4 just because he has the damage now, but I agree that Lackey and Vicious might get destroyed

 

[ArmedCalf]

Shotgun and full auto are 5-5! But high tech dudeeeee !! That mu can be 6-4 and possibly 7-3 hell sparks is a big problem for her in that variation

Thanks George! What in your opinion makes them 5-5? I know Shinnok can loop Jacqui and the move he steals is now safe, but I figured Shotgun would beat him up close and low shotgun blast could cancel out Hell Sparks at certain ranges.

 

[ArmedCalf]

In terms of Impostor, I feel he has an even match-up on Cybernetic Kano, possibly being a 5-5 even

Pros Over Cybernetic Kano
+His D4 is really good, good enough to contend and play footsies with Kano, plus, you can get a pressure game going with D4xxHell Sparks

+Better Mix-Up/Pressure game... Provided you have a bar... Again, Cybernetic lacks an Overhead and his biggest form of pressure involves the B31 low string, which is plus 1, but the pushback allows you to retaliate with a D4 (low profiling ftw)

+Better mobility... The teleport is really going to aid in this match-up. The knives are fast and a good Kano will always try to stay as far away as they can from Hell Sparks. However, you can still TP and catch Kano in recovery frames if you do your teleport fast enough.

+More damage off of midscreen combos... Although this isn't a huge thing, Impostor Shinnok can get a little bit more mileage out of his combos midscreen than Cybernetic Kano can. The constant need to watch out between the throw and Overhead when in the mimicry stun is also quite a bit of a scary mindgame to implement.

+Midscreen Control feels a little bit better due to Hell Sparks covering a lot of space. Granted, you'll mainly try to utilize it to catch backdashes in the neutral and to scare Kano from starting his Ball Roll game. Of course, no Kano worth his salt is going to throw that move out Willy nilly, but it just eliminates options, and if someone does try to do it and he gets hit by HS, he's eating a full combo into mimicry mix-up if you've got a bar.

+You build meter fast than he does

Cons against Cybernetic Kano
-Your meterless stagger pressure options are much worse than his. You know the frame data of your character. I don't need to tell you how negative he is on block with most strings.

-General Footsies... I have no idea if any of your tools can even beat B2 or even F4 besides your D4 and your Hell Sparks. F4 and B4 maybe? Again, I'm not too sure. B2 is half a screen and is safe as long as Cybernetic Kano doesn't go for the grab ender, F4 is -5ish, but Kano can't get anything really off of it unless he hit confirms into DB1, which is actually punishable.

- Kano's ridiculously good backdashes gets him out of so many sticky situations. Shinnok pressure is no different. If you have no bar, Shinnok has a tough time playing the game. Lol.

- Easy anti-airs... B1 is great for catching Shinnok out of the air. The general gameplay is to bait a jump in with knives then convert into a restand or Ball ender combo. Plus, Up Ball is FANTASTIC.

- Armored Combo Starter, this is huge. Kano has access to a safe, armored, convertible wake-up that could give him a decent amount of damage and Zoning position. Armored Kano Ball is just fantastic. The EX Upball allows for safe block strings as well.

-You steal Kano Ball, which if I'm not mistaken, is punishable on block, and leads to a knockdown. Not the best move to steal tbh.

-Fullscreen midknives are a giant pain in this match-up I'm sure.

Those are my opinions and thoughts on the Cybernetic MU, Calf. Will be willing to discuss further and whatnot.

EDIT: Just seen Dr. Stabs tagged in this. He's one of the more qualified guys to speak about Cyber.

I wouldn't mind running this MU sometime! I played Elmo and he actually beat me in a tourney. You have to play really patient in order to catch Kano when he's throwing a blade. If you do it too late then Kano gets a free d2.

 

[Daemantalo]

I wouldn't mind running this MU sometime! I played Elmo and he actually beat me in a tourney. You have to play really patient in order to catch Kano when he's throwing a blade. If you do it too late then Kano gets a free d2.

Yeah, this match-up is pretty fun to play tbh. Boneshaper is a 6-4 Shinnok, but that's not who you play lol. How did you feel while fighting Cybernetic in Impostor? I only imagine the mid, close, spacing game is kind of difficult. Kano just has good advancing mids and a quick D4 and I dunno if Shinnok's normal strings can contend reliably with those type of attacks.

 

[ArmedCalf]

Yeah, this match-up is pretty fun to play tbh. Boneshaper is a 6-4 Shinnok, but that's not who you play lol. How did you feel while fighting Cybernetic in Impostor? I only imagine the mid, close, spacing game is kind of difficult. Kano just has good advancing mids and a quick D4 and I dunno if Shinnok's normal strings can contend reliably with those type of attacks.

I got grabbed a lot lol. Cybernetic's projectile is a bitch to deal with, I have to be careful throwing out Hell Sparks because if I'm too far I'll just get hit by a blade. IA Kano Ball was interesting, I didn't know I had to walk forward before I do f4 to get a punish. After I lost I found out that s4 is more consistent. Yeah I think you have to just get in and mix but it's tough. I feel like DR would know more about that, he's got Noobe in his scene.

 

[Daemantalo]

I got grabbed a lot lol. Cybernetic's projectile is a bitch to deal with, I have to be careful throwing out Hell Sparks because if I'm too far I'll just get hit by a blade. IA Kano Ball was interesting, I didn't know I had to walk forward before I do f4 to get a punish. After I lost I found out that s4 is more consistent. Yeah I think you have to just get in and mix but it's tough. I feel like DR would know more about that, he's got Noobe in his scene.

Yeah Impostor appears to be momentum based mix-ups and Kano is just spacing and taking out your opponent from all zones piece by piece. IA Ball is just deathly on block, but it's better to lose 10% to an Overhead than risk losing 33%-45% getting tagged with the low. Thankfully, I haven't played a good Cybernetic and I'm not sure I want to lol.

 

[ForeverKing]

We can run the Blood God matchups for a while one these nights

 

[ArmedCalf]

We can run the Blood God matchups for a while one these nights

That'd be awesome!

 

[Tweedy]

You already know how I feel about Imposter and Tarkatan.

We'll probably never agree on War God but I respect your opinion.

We need to play the Tempest match up now that i'm playing him a little again. I think it might still be an okay match up for the old baggy pants fool.

 

[Rude]

You guys. This match up chart is invalid. According to expert sources, Imposter Shinnok should never touch you.

I know because I labbed it. ;-)

@Youphemism

 

[Indecisive]

I was just talking to Ominous about all this. I think base jax vs Impostor is a 5-5. I think Jax deals with Impostor pretty nicely from all ranges but if Impostor lands a hit it can do some really nice damage. He steals DP which is -7 and tricky for a Jax to punish every time, it does nice chip and OH DP is a risky but hella damaging vortex in the corner.

So Wrestler's added tools make Jax's up close game even scarier which is bad for Impostor. Impostor has a hard enough time with pressure as is and he wants to get up close and mix - doing that against Wrestler is hard. Pumped Up and Heavy Weapons actually give Impostor more opportunities to use teleport. Ground Pound and LAW rocket create more opportunities to get in and get that mix/damage. That's why I have the MU numbers listed differently. I will admit that I had to think long and hard about what I was gonna say about the Jax MU numbers.

The only thing is they dont need to do rocket in nuetral or ground pound. they can still play base jax. Also pumped up ex gotcha is 22-24% punish on teleport. Hw i guess can use rockets at the right range against hell sparks but it gives him meterless mid screen damage and pressure and well. since b3 cancel is plus. And he can easy hit confirm f3 with low crushes shinnoks d4.

 

[Tweedy]

Doesn't Ominous prefer HWs vs Imposter?

I swear this cuck lies to me about Jax all the time.

 

[Scott The Scot]

In a month and a half, you have changed the vs Cassie MU from 7-3 to 6-4. Did something change your opinion in that time? Just curious if you know about something new in the matchup or if you have new experience or if you've just changed your mind.

Source

 

[errormacro7]

I think Special Forces and Demo are 5-5s. And why do you have Covert Ops as a losing MU?

 

[Youphemism]

Haven't played much Impostor post-MKXL but I think Spec Ops could be closer to 5-5. Her having access to a counterzoning tool (however mediocre) is good for slowing Impostor down, especially when his full screen game is a little lacking. Her also having ways to get through hellsparks (if spaced properly) like B1 and being able to anti-air him out of teleport pretty well also give him problems but as you say he has access to 20% chip strings lol.
I also think Cybernetic Impostor is 5-5.
I'm not sure about him losing to Covert Ops, mind going into a bit more detail about that? Demo sure and Special Forces maybe but Covert Ops has a hard time getting in against hell sparks I feel.

You guys. This match up chart is invalid. According to expert sources, Imposter Shinnok should never touch you.

I know because I labbed it. ;-)

@Youphemism

Funny coming from the man whose justification for pre-patch Quan was "don't get hit"