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Important Details Regarding Punishing

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
It's not listed. Where am I going to see this info if I miss this thread? If I were to open TYM tomorrow, how would I know this info? This can literally be solved by simply adding it in the movelist. If I went by what the game tells me, I would be extremely confused as to why I can't punish this -8 move with my -8 S1.

Sure, it's great we know it, unfortunate it has to be this way. But for a second time?
This may sound simple, but why not use the training mode to answer your questions? I just feel like this is something that, if you're a competitive player, you can solve in training mode relatively quickly.

It's kind of annoying, but is taking five minutes to solve this in training mode really a big deal?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
This may sound simple, but why not use the training mode to answer your questions? I just feel like this is something that, if you're a competitive player, you can solve in training mode relatively quickly.

It's kind of annoying, but is taking five minutes to solve this in training mode really a big deal?
No, but just because it can be solved doesn't mean it's not bad on their side. OFC I'll do it and I'll figure it out on my own, but why is there even a need to test it out for myself because I can't punish when they literally tell me I can do it?
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Well, frame data is literally just the math, context matters a lot. Aquaman's Trident Rush is very punishable, but you can space it to not be, and that's just one example. I don't think they should be expected to account for little nuances, especially since only a very small audience actually cares about that.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
i mean it's still week one. It's not a big deal really, at least we found out early.
 

KiD INsAnitY

Z of The Leaf -Team R.A.N
Gud to kno but Its not that deep. Knowing this will not make you any better lol you can just excute your punishes slightly earlier. We lose our shit over everything...
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
No, but just because it can be solved doesn't mean it's not bad on their side. OFC I'll do it and I'll figure it out on my own, but why is there even a need to test it out for myself because I can't punish when they literally tell me I can do it?
Dude, chill. Not everything in life will be explained to you in full detail. You are literally freaking out about about NRS not providing buffer details when no game has ever done this. Maybe you forgot that injustice was the first game to include frame data? Now you are demanding buffer details and explanations for how said data works as if it's a common requirement of all fg devs.
 

haketh

Noob
Dude, chill. Not everything in life will be explained to you in full detail. You are literally freaking out about about NRS not providing buffer details when no game has ever done this. Maybe you forgot that injustice was the first game to include frame data? Now you are demanding buffer details and explanations for how said data works as if it's a common requirement of all fg devs.
Most games don't explain that because most games don't have that & the ones that list frame data don't do it the way NRS does with the one frame not being included. It's dumb, and using the "Others don't do it so why should NRS?" excuse is pretty whack.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Most games don't explain that because most games don't have that & the ones that list frame data don't do it the way NRS does with the one frame not being included. It's dumb, and using the "Others don't do it so why should NRS?" excuse is pretty whack.
You could also make the case that including an active frame in the startup frames is "dumb", couldn't you? And please, name some fighting games that list frame data in game.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Well, there's a few fighting games that do that nowadays, but that's sort of besides the point. For better or for worse, NRS is not like any other company in many extremes. This is probably more towards the worse, but at the same time, it's a pretty easy thing to visually confirm.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Well, there's a few fighting games that do that nowadays, but that's sort of besides the point. For better or for worse, NRS is not like any other company in many extremes. This is probably more towards the worse, but at the same time, it's a pretty easy thing to visually confirm.
I can only think of Virtua Fighter and Killer Instinct and KI doesn't include active frames in the startup frames either.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Dude, chill. Not everything in life will be explained to you in full detail. You are literally freaking out about about NRS not providing buffer details when no game has ever done this. Maybe you forgot that injustice was the first game to include frame data? Now you are demanding buffer details and explanations for how said data works as if it's a common requirement of all fg devs.
If I was freaking out, I'd chill. I don't know if the norm for people arguing opinions for you, in this case whether something should be included in the game, is that you imagine them as raging.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
If I was freaking out, I'd chill. I don't know if the norm for people arguing opinions for you, in this case whether something should be included in the game, is that you imagine them as raging.
This is how I imagine you right now:

 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Youre right, screw arguing then, everyone who does it is a raging idiot. If you argue for more than 2 replies, you're a problem.
You're not a raging idiot, but half of the first page is you shouting down anyone who disagrees with you. I'd find better things to get upset about otherwise you might actually start yelling at the house plant.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Premium Supporter
@THTB good stuff posting this for people who didnt see what dizzy said, i wonder is this new bigger buffer window reason why people getting specials instead of normals soooo much, if so id rather have to get a 1 frame punish so my normals come out. The alt control "fix" For this problem is a joke, if game needs to be in alt controls for normals to work right should of shipped with alt control deafault set to on, this needs addressing asap imo
 

THTB

RIP Arez & Booya
@THTB good stuff posting this for people who didnt see what dizzy said, i wonder is this new bigger buffer window reason why people getting specials instead of normals soooo much, if so id rather have to get a 1 frame punish so my normals come out. The alt control "fix" For this problem is a joke, if game needs to be in alt controls for normals to work right should of shipped with alt control deafault set to on, this needs addressing asap imo
The specials issue is controller settings based. With alt controls off and input shortcuts on, it's much easier to get accidental specials after holding down. The unfortunate part about this is some characters have something that takes advantage of that exact setting (Cyborg is a major example because of IANB). So it's a matter of who you use.

The buffer window simply is there so that 1 frame punishes are easier. It has no effect on accidental specials.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Premium Supporter
The specials issue is controller settings based. With alt controls off and input shortcuts on, it's much easier to get accidental specials after holding down. The unfortunate part about this is some characters have something that takes advantage of that exact setting (Cyborg is a major example because of IANB). So it's a matter of who you use.

The buffer window simply is there so that 1 frame punishes are easier. It has no effect on accidental specials.
just thought that this wasnt in inj1 where i didnt get specials when i didnt want and it happens all the bloody time in inj2 two that the new buffer system might of been effecting.
you still get specials by error just as much with input shortcuts off @IrishMantis can concur to this as he switched them off to try help and same deal.
alt controls seems to be only "fix" and like said earlier thats pretty shitty

whatever it is controlling it, they need to tone it down imo
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Why do we need to have these stupid hidden mechanics.
Its not hidden, it worked the same in MKX regarding the frame data, but ppl were too busy arguing based on assumptions instead. A lot of ppl said in MKX you can't punish -11 with an 11f normal because the execution frame its 12 for your 11f normal and not 11f as it says in the game, but ppl were too busy arguing.


Anyway the 2 buffering window add its kinda nice and helps not getting characters stuck in blockstun when trying to punish things with normals, now if only they refined the input lenience window, we're still getting unintended moves.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Its not hidden, it worked the same in MKX regarding the frame data, but ppl were too busy arguing based on assumptions instead. A lot of ppl said in MKX you can't punish -11 with an 11f normal because the execution frame its 12 for your 11f normal and not 11f as it says in the game, but ppl were too busy arguing.


Anyway the 2 buffering window add its kinda nice and helps not getting characters stuck in blockstun when trying to punish things with normals, now if only they refined the input lenience window, we're still getting unintended moves.
Literally read my other posts about this. If you didn't see this thread you'd never know.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
You realize I was being sarcastic and agreeing with you right?
Be mindful of your sarcasm. FYI, sarcasm doesn't work on us Greek folks, so we tend to answer this by mistake. :)

BTW, can you guys, please, give a proper example of competition mode on any char against AI dummy Superman? Would be helpful.
 

Ben Reed

Marine Biologist
Good to know about the new buffer. Was very obnoxious that Aquaman had a 1f FTD punish on blocked Deathstroke low guns that I could only get the timing on 1/100 times even in training mode. Nice to know that long-range punishes or short/mid-range ones from weird blockstun states should be a little easier now.