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I'm starting to feel............

I'm trying to get insight on this game. I'm looking to read people's opinions in hopes of better understanding the NRS fighting game system. So, I'm not new to fighting games... been at this a long time. However, I've been super casual with MK games and just here and there would play them for awhile, I've recently started to finally grasp frame date etc.

Now, my next issue that I'm just... baffled by I guess.
I'm watching videos of FoxyGrandpa play Lao and I swear to god, the guy does 2 strings, at max. Zhat, 2 individual buttons, which is D3 and F4, then grabs.
That is.... almost it. Anything else is situational in some sense. Opponent neutral jumps randomly, he reads it, forward advances with F21, again, very situational.
So I start thinking that the removal of things such as 50/50's and armored wakeup has DRASTICALLY changed the pace of this game from what we've played in the past. I get it, this is HEAVY neutral focus, great, I'm all for it! However, when a character has 20 strings, 20 individual buttons, 4 specials, etc. and basically only 5 things are ACTUALLY used... what are we doin here? Is this because damn near every string in the game is safe and you might as well use that one punisher that's fast and nothing else? Is it because we don't have the MKX style mixup options?

In MKX, I loved the pace. 50/50's made the game move forward and something was always happening. You can block 50/50 all day but.. eventually, YOU WILL guess in correct. When you did guess incorrect and your opponent wanted to continue to be overly aggressive, you got to punish them with an armored wakeup. Then force your own 50/50 game.

In MK11 we've got some characters that have no overheads at all. What happens in a lot of these matches is NO ONE is willing to go on the offensive (i believe you're at a disadvantage if you do!). It turns into 2 guys crouch blocking next to each other for long periods of time and a D1, D3, D4, Grab, war.:coffee:

Has the game slowed down to much for my taste? What's your thoughts?
 
I'd like to add that I love a TON of shit about this game. I honestly think it's the best MK they've made. However, I don't know if this slow down is of my liking.
 
I'm enjoying the game more and more with time. Which characters are you using? I suggest using a good rushdown character like Jacqui or Kang.
I've got a TON of matches in, easily 1000+. My mains are Jade, Lao, Jax, Skarlet.
My characters can produce but I can't help but to feel that so much time is spent in "lul" moments of nothing happening. Watching matches online and then realizing how much of a poke war the game is, it's pretty disheartening.
 

Eldagrin

Add me on PS4 if you want to play some games
I feel like the pace of the game is really good. If your opponents are just sitting there mashing out pokes and it’s working then you’re not really doing anything to blow it up for a full combo. You don’t really need an OH/Low 50/50 to open up people in this game because throws are already a 50/50 and there is a big mix up between mid vs throw that a lot of characters can enforce.

I will say however that poke mashing tends to be more powerful online than it is offline.
 

thlityoursloat

oh fuck! steht nicht im Vertrag.
I really dislike the emphasis on grabs. I just really really don't.
Too much risk and guesswork involved in trying to counter a single button press.
 

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
In MKX, I loved the pace. 50/50's made the game move forward and something was always happening. You can block 50/50 all day but.. eventually, YOU WILL guess in correct. When you did guess incorrect and your opponent wanted to continue to be overly aggressive, you got to punish them with an armored wakeup. Then force your own 50/50 game.
you just described everything I hated about mkx
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
The pace of this game is different. It’s more akin to Street Fighter or MK2 than the crazy cartoonish anime-like pace of MKX.

There’s a better balance of offense and defense, instead of just one or the other dominating the game.

Every MK game doesn’t need to be the same. Sometimes it seems like people want to force the meta into one idea or tempo, instead of just adapting to what the meta is.

Not being able to force a move at every single second with a mixup or cancel is actually classic fighting games, and if you learn to enjoy the neutral and the mind games that accompany the patience, it’s truly beautiful and fun.

I’d suggest just keeping an open mind. MK is growing up as a FG and it’s a great thing in my opinion.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
I'm watching videos of FoxyGrandpa play Lao and I swear to god, the guy does 2 strings, at max. Zhat, 2 individual buttons, which is D3 and F4, then grabs.
That is.... almost it. Anything else is situational in some sense. Opponent neutral jumps randomly, he reads it, forward advances with F21, again, very situational.
Tekken 7, which is currently perceived as one of the more complex fighting game, is no different. Every character has at least 100 moves, yet only a limited amount is used in the neutral. The rest of the moves are primarily reserved for punishment and combos.

As far as the pace is concerned, people complained about offense and armor in Mortal Kombat X so NRS listened. Then people complained about zoning in Injustice 2 so NRS listened again. So NRS created Mortal Kombat 11, which is by and large a product of the community's feedback.
 

DeftMonk

Noob
You’ve touched on my problem with this game which imo is not because lack of 50/50s more because when certain strings are so good why use others? Ala liukang f4 staggerable 9 frame hit confirmable mid string. Also, wake up options can be so strong people don’t go for oki.
 

Dreamcatcher

BaCk FrOm ThE dEaD
Royal Contributor
There are definitely wayyyyy too many strings for some characters in this game. If they change/decrease frames later with a patch, then cool. If they stay with the same properties then some really have no point other than to throw something random at an opponent hoping they stutter, so you go into your actual string to combo. (which most high level players are going to read anyway and react)

Most average players will recognize if a string isn't safe and punish anyway, regardless if they aren't super familiar with it or not.
 

OzzFoxx

Hardcore gaming poser.
Premium Supporter
Most normals/strings are ignored b/c they are/start high. Highs are too weak and you end up with them being ignored. I think you should not be able to low profile until you’ve been ducking for 2-3 frames. It will bring the raiden/shao/kotals into viable territory without hurting others.
 

Ayx

Omnipresent
In MKX, I loved the pace. 50/50's made the game move forward and something was always happening. You can block 50/50 all day but.. eventually, YOU WILL guess in correct. When you did guess incorrect and your opponent wanted to continue to be overly aggressive, you got to punish them with an armored wakeup. Then force your own 50/50 game.
... wat? You love what the equivalent of rolling the dice over and over again was? MK11 is more neutral heavy. Yes the getup system is a little busted but there's more and more strategies being discovered for it. It does suck that people use 1-2 strings to approach, but sadly there's no one to blame but devs making only 1-2 strings start mid or low. Most are high and take too long for the mid 2nd hit to come out so doing it on approach is barely worth it. Maybe down the line they'll adjust how highs work but right now low profiling and crouching is the name of the game for most matchups.

Then again in some games like SF or even 3D fighters, there's usually one main normal or string that's used to "check" your opponent. There's nothing other than risk if you do anything else. Flashy only gets you so far.