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I'm at a crossroads -- any advice if the debt is worth it?

Edmund

Edmund

Kitana & Skarlet
Yesterday I got the news that I have gotten off the waitlist to go to George Washington University's School of Law. I have been on track, up until this point, to go to University of Maryland's School of Law. My fear is that if I go to GWU, not only do I have to make a lot of last minute changes, but I also have to go into a staggering $100,000 more in debt than University of Maryland which will put my total up to around a quarter of a million dollars in debt. I have been fortunate enough to have paid off my undergraduate degree.

My question that I am proposing to all of TYM, is asking if you all think it is worth it. I know this isn't the best place for it, but I want the perspective from anyone and everyone. GWU was my dream school, I never thought I'd get in, but coupling that with the actual reality of the money is hard to fathom for me.

What is boils down to:
GWU
-Way more expensive
-Ranked 22nd in the Country
-Has a direct lane to the type of law I want to do

UMD
-Way cheaper
-Ranked 52nd in the Country
-I'm already pretty secure with everything involving what I need to prepare (ie finances and everything)
-Smaller school with more individuality

The worst part of it all is I have to accept the offer by 5:00 pm Tomorrow. literally any advice I'll take it.
 
HellblazerHawkman

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
I say this partly as a guy who had to dip out of law school due to financial concerns, and somebody who is friends with like, 80 lawyers (from Rutgers and Seton Hall if it matters): where you go to school doesn't necessarily seem as important as the connections you make going through law school. Going to the "better school" isn't going to matter as much as making a good impression with the judges in your area and getting friendly with other lawyers who can get you a job/serve as a professional referral. If you weren't doing something that would pay well in the end, I would flat out say the money isn't worth it. But consider the fact you are going to be there at least 3 years and you have to deal with the financial strain for all of that time.
 
ChoseDeath

ChoseDeath

Seriously Casual Player.
Edmund said:
Yesterday I got the news that I have gotten off the waitlist to go to George Washington University's School of Law. I have been on track, up until this point, to go to University of Maryland's School of Law. My fear is that if I go to GWU, not only do I have to make a lot of last minute changes, but I also have to go into a staggering $100,000 more in debt than University of Maryland which will put my total up to around a quarter of a million dollars in debt. I have been fortunate enough to have paid off my undergraduate degree.

My question that I am proposing to all of TYM, is asking if you all think it is worth it. I know this isn't the best place for it, but I want the perspective from anyone and everyone. GWU was my dream school, I never thought I'd get in, but coupling that with the actual reality of the money is hard to fathom for me.

What is boils down to:
GWU
-Way more expensive
-Ranked 22nd in the Country
-Has a direct lane to the type of law I want to do

UMD
-Way cheaper
-Ranked 52nd in the Country
-I'm already pretty secure with everything involving what I need to prepare (ie finances and everything)
-Smaller school with more individuality

The worst part of it all is I have to accept the offer by 5:00 pm Tomorrow. literally any advice I'll take it.
Click to expand...
Where you go to school doesn't matter nearly as much as everyone thinks. I would save the money, make straight A's and become a kick ass lawyer without needing 12 years to start actually making money to get out of debt. They should have told you sooner. I'm in medicine if that helps.
 
colby4898

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
HellblazerHawkman said:
Yeah, this is why "let's make college" free is becoming a thing in the US election. It's not uncommon for somebody to go $100,000 in debt to get a degree that doesn't actually guarantee them a job that will eventually pay that off
Click to expand...
Crazy. It's about £9000 a year here and most courses are 3 years so 27k. About 33k USD. This is why I didn't go and am studying a career specific course while I work that my employer is paying for lol
 
Owerbart

Owerbart

I miss you
hello man. I'm gonna give you my two cents, but take this with a grain of salt since i come from a country where uni is mostly free.

my opinion is that you should not get more into debt. At least every place i've worked in and any job market i've been into, employers don't care too much about which college you've been to, as in any professional work environment at the end of the day is 5% having a diploma 95% what you've learned from your experience. I don't think whatever name your diploma has its gonna open a door that the other name won't do. I think the whole "ohhh he went to that famous X school" is something more from the 80s-90s. 100k usd is a lot of money and replanning that investment and financial commitment in less than a week looks like a recipe for disaster. I would just keep things like they are, also from what i've heard the stundent loans in USA are a huge bubble and become shackles to people. Don't do it man, but at the end of the days its your own choice.

whatever you choose i wish you the best
 
Ray'sGoodLiquor

Ray'sGoodLiquor

I don't care I'm not a competitive player anymore
Large amounts of college debt are generally only worth it if you're going to be some sort of engineer, doctor, or lawyer. There's still no guarantee you'll ever pay them off. The closer I get to applying for law school, the more I feel like dipping out after the bachelors degree and going full time with one of my hobby-businesses. You're gonna get tired of working for other people pretty quickly anyways.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Take my successful adult advice OP. Save the money, take less debt. When you complete it you will use your connections into the workforce anyway, so as long as your degree isn't Bootleg Uni employers will take you on. For your path, it isn't worth the future debt for nearly the same exact result.
 
Castorp115

Castorp115

Noob
I'm a lawyer with several lawyer friends and I'll echo the sentiments above that taking on that much debt is rarely ever the best choice. The law school you go to matters much less than how well you do at the school you attend, whatever that school is. Also, a law degree is not a gaurenteed triple-digit paycheck, a lot depends on where you end up practicing and the type of practice that is, so it's dangerous to assume that you will be able to shoulder a large amount of debt once you have the degree.

I'd also encourage you to go in with an open mind re: the type of law you think you might want to practice, as the idea of certain practices often differs greatly from the reality. Unless you've actually worked in a firm that practiced that type of law in some capacity or had a parent or other realitve that did so, you need to try your hardest to get summer positions in that area to make sure it's what you want to do. I personally went in thinking I'd be a particular kind of lawyer and ended up doing something completely different, and I'm fairly certain I'm a lot happier now than I would have been.
 
T

TeamCage

Noob
Not sure about law school, and how much undergrad prestige counts for in law, but I'm in an area (financial services, investment banking) where the right choice in the long run is almost always to go for a top school and shoulder the debt. Perhaps more so for postgrad than undergrad, but the Ivy League schools generally grant access to bulge bracket banks and PE shops for finance students. The mileage may vary for law, although I know a bunch of folks who did their law postgrads in Ivy League schools and their careers got significant bumps as a result. The connections you make do apply, but it's much more relevant for postgrad than it is for undergrad.

Case in point: a couple of years ago I was looking to do a masters and the only schools in the states I really looked at were NYU, Columbia, Yale and a couple of top 10/15 schools. All of them except MIT would have cost 150-200k, but would have been worth it in the longer run, especially if I wanted to work on Wall Street (I'm not an American), even if I had been offered full rides at other universities. Ended up doing the masters with the best EU business school, paid out of pocket, and have no school debt with a comfortable 6 figure salary. And I count a bunch of entrepreneurs, executives, fund managers, venture capitalists, algo traders and a couple of folks from billionaire families as friends and connections.

Going to a good school is far more important for postgrad, and connections are better at that level too. Whether it is worthwhile for undergrad is likely dependent on your preferred path and whether the choice of undergrad school results in you being more or less able to go down that path. 100k isn't insignificant, but it is a small amount to pay if it makes a big difference in your immediate (3-5 years) graduate career, which then has postgrad implications. I would also look into the funding programs for the 100k. There are usually need scholarships that could offset a part of the 100k, and there are at times alumni funds that loan successful applicants the money.
 
Buster Skruggs

Buster Skruggs

Noob
ZeroSymbolic said:
I personally think that trades like welding and H-VAC is where it's at, but good luck in whatever you choose.
Click to expand...
I myself took 4 years of trade school and became a electrician .

But as far as Washington being your dream school Edmund you got to figure out if it's worth it yourself. Sure wish I knew more about law school and could give you some sound advice but I can say one thing that is a lot of money. I'm in agreement with its who you know in most cases. That's sound for trade, tech, or law
 
lionheart21

lionheart21

Its Game Over, Man
TeamCage said:
Not sure about law school, and how much undergrad prestige counts for in law, but I'm in an area (financial services, investment banking) where the right choice in the long run is almost always to go for a top school and shoulder the debt. Perhaps more so for postgrad than undergrad, but the Ivy League schools generally grant access to bulge bracket banks and PE shops for finance students. The mileage may vary for law, although I know a bunch of folks who did their law postgrads in Ivy League schools and their careers got significant bumps as a result. The connections you make do apply, but it's much more relevant for postgrad than it is for undergrad.

Case in point: a couple of years ago I was looking to do a masters and the only schools in the states I really looked at were NYU, Columbia, Yale and a couple of top 10/15 schools. All of them except MIT would have cost 150-200k, but would have been worth it in the longer run, especially if I wanted to work on Wall Street (I'm not an American), even if I had been offered full rides at other universities. Ended up doing the masters with the best EU business school, paid out of pocket, and have no school debt with a comfortable 6 figure salary. And I count a bunch of entrepreneurs, executives, fund managers, venture capitalists, algo traders and a couple of folks from billionaire families as friends and connections.

Going to a good school is far more important for postgrad, and connections are better at that level too. Whether it is worthwhile for undergrad is likely dependent on your preferred path and whether the choice of undergrad school results in you being more or less able to go down that path. 100k isn't insignificant, but it is a small amount to pay if it makes a big difference in your immediate (3-5 years) graduate career, which then has postgrad implications. I would also look into the funding programs for the 100k. There are usually need scholarships that could offset a part of the 100k, and there are at times alumni funds that loan successful applicants the money.
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Even if I'm only sticking with a Bachelors degree from an accredited Biochemistry program, one of my biggest regrets was not making connections like that in college. Not even sure how to go about that now since its one of those moments where you only really have one real chance to make a lasting impression.
 
Espio

Espio

Kokomo
@Edmund

Going with the cheaper option I don't think will truly hurt you. I always did internships in my field at the police department, prosecutor's office and such and establishing good working relationships with these people can help get your foot in the door or even if you leave a lot of people talk, will right good letters and a quality recommendation carries.

I have student loan debt and I'll be okay, but the less you have the better and more comfortable your future will be and just like with expensive jeans or cars, just cause you spent more doesn't automatically mean it will be worth more.
 
T

TeamCage

Noob
lionheart21 said:
Even if I'm only sticking with a Bachelors degree from an accredited Biochemistry program, one of my biggest regrets was not making connections like that in college. Not even sure how to go about that now since its one of those moments where you only really have one real chance to make a lasting impression.
Click to expand...
Networking can be done at any time to be honest, but the reason why it's valued that much within a university (undergrad to a lesser extent) is because the people you meet there or who share the same alma mater as you will be much likelier to help you out or to refer you for positions in the future. LinkedIn is also a good way to get connections that you then follow up on in real life -- ask for a coffee or buy someone a drink. I spoke to alumni from all the business schools I targeted, and the network at that level is extremely reliable. People go out of their way to refer others simply due to a shared school. I'm in WhatsApp group chats for my school where anyone needing a new job is helped very quickly, and even third party nieces or nephews looking for internships get traction quite easily.

Profession or industry-specific events are also helpful. For those here in finance, the big finance charters (CFA/CPA/FRM/CAIA programs) all have networking events where people of all seniorities congregate. I've done 3 of those and do some work on the side for one of them, and I sometimes get people talking to me simply to get more information on what I went through (without NDA violation). Volunteering for mentor programs or social endeavours is also a good way to meet people. In the end, it's all about meeting new people, not just people within finance (for me) or biochemistry (for you).
 
U

UltraDavid

Noob
My brother went to GW law. He liked it but I don't think it particularly helped him find a job better than if he had gone somewhere else. In my experience as a lawyer and with lawyer friends & family, your school's name doesn't matter very much outside of the top 14-15. Many of the successful lawyers I know went elsewhere and did fine. Like with many other things, success in a legal career is more about who you know, where you live, how hard you work, how lucky you get, etc. If I were in your place I think I'd go to Maryland instead. But lemme know if you have any other questions!
 
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