I want the MK Supers and Brutalities to be taken out and reworked...

[Jynks]

So I was thinking about MK12 and saw a post in the chatbot by Evil Canadian..

My biggest hope for MK12 is whatever they call supers this time around, they are all 1 hit less. They always take too long

He is totally right, for something so cool they get so boring so quickly and in MK they are long and in MK11 they really had no requirements, so you could see 2 a game, every game. I was thinking about these supers and brutalities and started to get this idea that what I would really like is the two things to be combined.

Brutalities are awesome, and there are a ton of them, all with their own unique requirements. What if Supers and Brutalities were somehow combined. So a Super, that has requirements to "load" it and become ready and able to be used, but unlike burtalities it can be activated as a traditional move. The harder the requirements, the more damage the move dose. Each brutality (it would need a new name) could have their own properties, like Stun or whatever.

This could solve much of the "same super" problem as you could have so many supers, like brutalities, linked to each standard special move or combo ender. So instead of 1 Super X-Ray you have say 10 Brutalities, all different. You could even keep add requirement for them, so the choice to use them effects your gameplay. What to cash out in that unblockable full screen super.. well you need to do 8 throws 4 forward 4 back... giving the opponent more opportunities to read. It could actually add a new dimension to kombat.

Now obioulsy I am not a game desinger, and this idea might not be super water tight... but I;m sure actual game desingers could find a way to do the basic idea, as in replace the Super with move specific enders, like brutalities, effectivly making a bunch of supers for each charicter to reduce tedium while playing. I mean after so many years some of the x-rays in MKX and MK11 are just painful, but many of the brutalities are still cool... so some way to make supers more like thtat.

 

[Jynks]

Sorry... I swear I only hit the post button once....

 

[Eji1700]

I mean...you've basically just arrived at Krushing Blows, but I functionally agree.

On the supers-
The big cinematic supers get old FAST. I would be fine with either a return darkstalker style supers, (basically EX moves, 0 cinematic) or at least an option to hold the input to get a faster animation.

It might still be cool to have the major cinematic, but only in very specific conditions (counter hit with full meter after landing some setup move earlier) so that they retain their novelty, feel special when it does occur, and DON'T WASTE 10 SECONDS EVERY SINGLE GAME IN A BO3/5 MATCH (and the literal worst feature of injustice is that the breakers have the audacity to do this as well)

On, again, what you're describing basically being Krushing Blows-

As much as some people HATE Krushing Blows, I think the core idea is fine and it just needs tweaking. It feels a little arbitrary in MK11 and as with all things recent MK some seem to be triggered every match, while others required so much as to be functionally useless, but there are some really good ideas in there.

Calling out a breaker with a specific move and being rewarded with an extra powerful punish is a great idea (and something that exists in almost every other game that has combo breakers.), and was one of the better things about the Krushing Blow system (for those who had viable ones anyways).

Likewise I think you've hit on something i was hoping for, which is having Krushing Blows do more than just "tons of damage". At the very least you could get away with getting extra meter, eating your opponents meter, maybe limiting their mobility, gaining a variety of buffs, making the next use of a specific move more powerful, etc. Basically everything that's ever been an injustice trait.

This is all conflicting a bit with EX move space, but you can have this happen on normals/throws, and having special move, ex move, special krushing, ex krushing adds a lot of areas for them to tweak stuff. More importantly, it hopefully adds more ways to allow VERY powerful moves like say Ice Clone, Instant Air Gas Blast, Cyrax bombs, etc without getting quite as "degenerate" (although I really do hope 12 ups the power level on the entire cast).

So all in all i basically agree. Conditional things allow a lot more design space because you can lock power behind these conditions, and then also have mind games if players are over focusing trying to achieve those. That said the conditions are the key because making it something the player wants to do anyways is often quite boring and making it something they never want to do or never could do means you wasted dev time to create something no one will use.

Edit-

Crossed my wires and put fatal blows when i meant krushing blows. Fixed it.

 

[Rathalos]

Agreed with all of the above you guys.

I was actually thinking about the mechanics a lot the last few days, and really thinking about what I actually liked about MK11 and what I didn't.
From just a pure production standpoint, it is a amazing game, it is so cool looking.

I think my biggest wish in regards to Fatal blows/Xrays and Krushing blows, is they simply go back to MK9/X's meter system.
It was very simple, but it worked so well(outside of some balance issues with how some characters could gain it must faster then others).

I think they should keep the names Fatal Blow and Krushing blow, just because they sound cool, and are thematically appropriate.
However just roll them into the old system, basically replace the old enhanced moves completely with Krushing blows, as they both don't need to exist.
1 bar for a Krushing blow, works just like an enhanced like the old games, but with the fancy camera work of a KB.

Fatal Blows should exist, but be shortened, most are usually 3 hits, to keep the flair of a FB make it so it only does the 3rd hit if it's going to kill and basically replace the fatality. If it hits in the middle of a match, it only does 2 hits, if it's going to kill, the 3rd hit comes out and just fucking murders the opponent.

3 Segment bar.
1 - Krushing Blow
2 - Combo Breaker ( I hate CBs, but breakaway's are so bad they make me miss CBs)
3 - Fatal Blow

No other universal meter mechanics.

Just keep it simple, and design the characters around their own kits instead of just universal mechanics to patch up holes they might have.

I don't know it's very early in the morning and i'm rambling.

 

[Ptehu]

Krushing blows - YES, they can stay and be expanded. They are awesome wink, not taking a lot of time, but can get a satisfactory effect while executed correctly.
Fatal blows - NOPE, big NOPE. They are enjoyable only for the first 1-10 times you do it. Later on, they are just irritating & too long. Of course apart from this sick mechanic of it possible to be performed only when you are low on HP.
Brutalities - YES, same as Krushing blows - seemed like nice perfect addition. Why change something that works well?
Combo Breakers - YES, they are very much needed

In terms of any other "-LITIES", I hope they will NOT bring animalities this time. Those are just ridiculous and should be forgotten long time ago.
Friendships seem ok. Count on more STAGE FATAILTIES as well.

 

[Law Hero]

Personally, I hate nearly all supers. Supers are just so boring, and I hate sitting there watching a pre-recorded animation over and over again. Now, that being said, I don't hate all supers, and there are types that I actually really like.

For example, I like super moves that allow the opponent to act while it is happening. I think supers like in MvC where the opponent can still do stuff while giant beams fly across the screen or status effects are being applied. It's so much more interesting to see a super with special properties that you can play around, (giant projectiles, AoE attacks, etc). Like, getting over and/or behind an opponent doing a super with a long animation and getting a back attack is so much more satisfying than blocking a Fatal Blow and punishing because they're all negative. Also, specials that cause status effects like slowing down time, buffing damage, etc) are just so much more interesting than big move do big damage.

I would like to see more variety like this, but I'm not holding my breath whatsoever.

 

[Eji1700]

For example, I like super moves that allow the opponent to act while it is happening.

Yeah MK really needs to get on this. Too many of the MK supers are basically "combo confirm only" with a small side of "wake up reversal/bet it all neutral tool". Those can work fine, but supers that force unique situations or cause wacky shit to happen are vastly better, and should be easy in something like mk if they'd just toy with it.

 

[Gooberking]

I think they are going to be reluctant to change the formula all that much. They are making a large portion of their revenue off of people that buy the game just to see some cool stuff and dunk on their friends for like a week. Supers are really cool for the first time, and they need the whole process to be easy.

I whole heatedly agree it grows old and then into a massive, disrespectful waste of time for everyone that continues to play the game over a long period of time. I would like to see something done for it. I'm really not interested in having moments in or in between games where I have time to go do something else. Be that long cinematic supers(NRS), clashes(IJ), min load time sale screens(SFV), or long load times with no instant rematching(T7)

 

[Vslayer]

Sorry... I swear I only hit the post button once....

Are you using your phone to post? Sometimes that can be wonky.

On the topic at hand. I'd rather just not have any supers, or FB or anything like that. I just don't get the point it slows games down and slows combos down. Like remove variations and make every special move and every amped move really cool, we don't need a cinematic of bones being crushed lmao. Such a waste of time. Just go back to the roots, to what worked. Special moves, brutals, fatals, stage fatals. Don't need more than that imo.

 

[xXRagingFlameXx]

For example, I like super moves that allow the opponent to act while it is happening. I think supers like in MvC where the opponent can still do stuff while giant beams fly across the screen or status effects are being applied. It's so much more interesting to see a super with special properties that you can play around, (giant projectiles, AoE attacks, etc). Like, getting over and/or behind an opponent doing a super with a long animation and getting a back attack is so much more satisfying than blocking a Fatal Blow and punishing because they're all negative. Also, specials that cause status effects like slowing down time, buffing damage, etc) are just so much more interesting than big move do big damage.

This would be so sick. Supers that are impactful and visually cool, but not long cinematics that just take too much time.

Like I'm imaging a Sub-Zero super where he shoots a giant ice blast into the air, causing it so snow, slowing down the opponents' movement. And maybe over time patches of the floor will freeze. It has impact on the match, but it also changes the gameplay in a fun way beyond just "Watch this short movie while you wait to start actually playing the match again."

Mileena could have one where she tosses both of her sai and for 10-15 seconds they'll ricochet around the screen

Raiden summons lightning and it'll strike the field randomly at different locations and require the opponent to dodge them. There's a lot of possibilities there.

But honestly anything is better than what we have now.

 

[Arqwart]

Are you using your phone to post? Sometimes that can be wonky.

On the topic at hand. I'd rather just not have any supers, or FB or anything like that. I just don't get the point it slows games down and slows combos down. Like remove variations and make every special move and every amped move really cool, we don't need a cinematic of bones being crushed lmao. Such a waste of time. Just go back to the roots, to what worked. Special moves, brutals, fatals, stage fatals. Don't need more than that imo.

Could remove supers entirely and just keep the krushing blow mechanic, though managed way better (lol Cetrion and Shang). Just add a KB where characters can amplify one of their signature moves in a specific way when <X% health to add a huge chunk of damage on hit. Done. Easy comeback mechanic without a ridiculously long cutscene while still retaining some bone crunching / organ smashing via the quick KB x-ray.

 

[colby4898]

The length of supers is fine I think, it's only because of how they got implemented you saw them so often it got annoying. In MKX I didn't find the length of the animation annoying at all because you hardly ever see them.

Fatalblows - No
Krushing Blows - No
Custom Variations - No - unless improved A LOT
Characters with different health - No
50/50 grabs - No
Auto regenerating meter - No
Breakaway - No
Lack of creativity and different playstyles - No

Safe to say I did not like this game, easily the most disappointing game I've ever played. MK12 can't disapppoint me more as I'm expecting it now... but please be good.

 

[Vslayer]

Could remove supers entirely and just keep the krushing blow mechanic, though managed way better (lol Cetrion and Shang). Just add a KB where characters can amplify one of their signature moves in a specific way when <X% health to add a huge chunk of damage on hit. Done. Easy comeback mechanic without a ridiculously long cutscene while still retaining some bone crunching / organ smashing via the quick KB x-ray.

agreed, I just don't want to like have to SEE one every combo you know. It slows down the game way too much.

 

[EarlyReflections]

I think the simple execution and requirements of xray/comeback mechanic won't be redesigned. It serves its purpose and it's a huge thing for casual players and ppl who just mash buttons with friends.
I would prefer if they get back to mk9/X design and get rid of all time bars though.

The lengh is another thing, definitely need to get shorter.

Same for fatalities. They take too long now and most of them seem disconnected from the powers and personality of characters doing them.

Some UMK3 brutalities would be nice too.

 

[Rude]

The length of supers is fine I think, it's only because of how they got implemented you saw them so often it got annoying. In MKX I didn't find the length of the animation annoying at all because you hardly ever see them.

Fatalblows - No
Krushing Blows - No
Custom Variations - No - unless improved A LOT
Characters with different health - No
50/50 grabs - No
Auto regenerating meter - No
Breakaway - No
Lack of creativity and different playstyles - No

Safe to say I did not like this game, easily the most disappointing game I've ever played. MK12 can't disapppoint me more as I'm expecting it now... but please be good.

Throws were fine. The rest of this post can be shortened to, "I did not like MK11 and do not want anything from it to carry over to MK12."

 

[Darth-Nero]

Xrays/fatalblows/supers indeed have to be more interactive, not just an extended repetitive cutscene that disrupts the momentum of the match. Also keep the fatal life altering strikes strictly to fatality and brutality finishers. it never sat right with me how a character can get stabbed in both eyes or take a bullet to the head then get up and continue fighting.

 

[John Grizzly]

Easy fix for this - simply make them fucking COST SOMETHING LIKE EVERY OTHER GAME. There's a reason why we rarely saw them in MK9 and MKX - because there were better ways to spend your meter.

Also....the fact that Fatal Blows could just be done AGAIN if you missed the first one in the round was such an asinine decision. I still can't believe how much stupid shit NRS crammed into MK11. I really hope they don't carry over anything from MK11 aside from the visuals.

 

[Marlow]

What if Supers only triggered the long cinematic if certain other criteria were met? For example, normally the super just acts similar to a Krushing blow, but if it’s the blow that ends the round or ends the match it triggers the longer cinematic animation?

 

[Eji1700]

agreed, I just don't want to like have to SEE one every combo you know. It slows down the game way too much.

Not only that, but it literally takes away the impact they're supposed to have. It should be an "OH FUCK" moment when you see one not "uh huh ok". This concept has been around since gief's headbutt would insta stun, but MK especially just cannot ration them out and instead forces this shit into every hit almost.

 

[Law Hero]

It should be an "OH FUCK" moment when you see one

Although a lot of krushing blows lack that, I feel like the Uppercut KB still gives me that reaction to this day. I don't know what it is, but I can just feel that Uppercut KB when it happens.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I think the issue isn't the length to me, it's that some of them don't feel like they flow with the match and instead feel like obnoxious cutscenes.

MK9's were pretty fast but mostly boring, MK11s were really cool but too god damn long and complicated.

MKX's were in that perfect middleground IMO, for the most part.

 

[Pterodactyl]

agreed, I just don't want to like have to SEE one every combo you know. It slows down the game way too much.

I would prefer they keep them but only on the truly hard stuff.

There were farrrrr too many easy ones in MK11.

Having them on stuff like Jax's frame-perfect quad slam makes sense and really makes it feel more satisfying and powerful.

Pretty much every other one that he has though, lmao some of the easier KBs in the game so you see them every match just about.

 

[JGillette]

brutalities were funny as hell in mk11. i mostly found myself bursting out laughing when i saw them. the background sound made it even funnier.

 

[Marinjuana]

If we are going to have a mechanic like fatal blow where its used almost every match, it shouldn't be this long ass animation. Tag fighters with lots of supers make them short and sweet because they know they will be seen 100 times

Also, no one is surviving that shit. Just a bit more realism will make it more impactful

 

[colby4898]

Also, no one is surviving that shit. Just a bit more realism will make it more impactful

I think that ship has firmly sailed. Who needs realism when you're talking about gods, ninjas with powers, time travel etc. I want cool over the top animations not just exchanging punches and wrestling moves

 

[LiuKangmain]

I have a habit of getting hit by FB every damn time so yeah,remove that fucking thing.