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I hope NRS' next game actually builds on MK11's mechanic foundation

I have a feeling that part of the reason that NRS rushed to work on a new game was because of a kneejerk reaction to community criticism about MK11's gameplay, but I would hate it if they regressed and went back to like MKX style gameplay instead of simply applying feedback and refining what worked in MK11.

Like, Krushing Blows, Flawless Blocking, Short Hops, and the universal wake-up system should most definitely be kept.

Now for discussion on the more divisive mechanics; Breakaway and Fatal Blows.

I think Breakaway should be kept. I don't want to go back to Breakers because I think there should be SOME sort of kounterplay against a kombo breaker. Now, I definitely get the complaint of rewarding the breaking player, but I think this would be easily rectified by forcing a Delayed Getup once they hit the ground. It wouldn't be possible to wakeup buttons for an easy punish anymore and the attacker would actually be able to react accordingly.

This is going to be controversial, but I myself honestly think Fatal Blows are fine they made them easier to Flawless Block and reduced block pushback on Flawless Block & in the corner. I like how you have to change up your strategy and bait the opponent accordingly, I don't think that's inherently a bad thing, raises the skill gap if anything.

The only mechanic I really want overhauled is how the Variation system works. One idea I read and loved was giving each slot a specific purpose; one is for Special Moves, one is for Strings, and one is for Buttons. It would be easier to balance since it inherently limits what combinations can be made while also allowing for more creativity since moves don't compete with different slots and you actually pick from a decent variety of different moves. Movesets would be more standardized and 'complete' since this system would be moreso adding on then filling in like MK11's system.

But yea, end of my tangent, I just really hope NRS doesn't throw away pretty much everything MK11 did right. It's been an evolution up to now, I'd hate to see them take more steps backwards.
 

Slymind

Noob
You probably will get a lot of flak here, but i do think MK11 had a very good foundation, the follow up however was very dissapointing. Breakaway and fatal blows needed some changes simple ones actually:

FB shouldn't recharge in any capacity, and they should be incredibly unsafe. Also i think they should be available 10 seconds after you reached that 30% threshold.
Breakaway needed to be mandatory delayed wake up, so people didn't get punished for landing a combo.

I like your "variation" system idea, although since customs came about, the way i see, now we have builds and not variations.

In MK11 alone, with simple changes, they could've improved this game imensely, honestly i do not get the mindset of the balance team anymore, and i'm not trying to attack the devs in any capacity, but, as a fan and a consumer, i wouldn't mind if Paulo and co left at this point.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
I think MK11 has provided them with a great foundation. Hopefully they build it up instead of tearing everything down and re-inventing the wheel
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
The only thing want from MK11 is the training mode and the online.

The meter system was a joke, no real consequence and meter management was even needed, so rushdown characters who needed to be regulated with meter and how they built were unecessarily annoying.
Wakeup buttons with invincibility, 7 different wakeup options, all with invincibility. dafuq?
Obnoxious Jump attacks that your most viable answer it's to flawless block
flawless block while you are minus enough to negate a frame trap.
Flawless blocks shouldn't never have an attack feature, they should and only be a move to negate chip and meter build from opponents
Safest place is in the sair.
Characters were bland with mostly no real juice or interesting gameplan designs.
Costume design was boring, mostly recolors of the same costume.
Single player content and shop was bad
Kombo system was trash
variation system needs to die
Reinventing the wheel needs to die. (but please don't keep the shit of MK11 as base)
Halfscreen normals it's a design that needs to die.
Breakaway was a dumb AF
Interactables.
Stance switch
Fatal Blows were super long annoying and got stale as the game progressed.
Krushing blows it's a no. you want high damage do combos, these one hit kills definitely killed the game for me.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Yeah I agree, there's a bunch of stuff they should build on. I thought the damage levels and pace of neutral had a great foundation but on some of the mechanics.

Krushing Blows: A page pulled from Soul Calibur VI's lethal blows, it's a great idea to create interesting tools and it allowed them to make strings more interesting. They can build on MK11's system by making them have unique requirements and perhaps creating a better feeling of consistency across the cast.

Flawless Blocking: I think it's just a dope mechanic and a version of it should be in the next game. Flawless Blocking stuff to save chip damage should always be a thing in NRS games but attaching "armor"/reversals to it gave the game a really great depth that didn't come with the unga bunga of armored moves. But I guess it all depends on how they do meter in the next game. I actually do miss armor moves but I digress

Short Hops: I like how they made the game less 50/50 heavy and that allows for universal overheads. Short hops didn't hurt the game in any way and added some fun and and fair mix as well as some niche tech.

Breakaway: I'm not gonna die on a hill for this mechanic but I think it's way better then MK9/MKX breaker and it allowed for some thoughtful counterplay instead of just breaker when you got meter, which would have been more annoying with the meter system as is. I think if they had made the game from the ground up with armor breaking moves, then this mechanic may have been looked at more fondly.

Fatal Blows: Not in love with it, but I think it's gonna return as it allows for casuals to use a cool move and to allow well made supers to exist. I hope they make the cutscenes shorter and don't make any cheap startups. More counterplay!

Universal Wakeup System: I don't think there's ever been an issue with the U3/U2's outside of U2's not being consistently good in a desirable way. So I'm with you, I don't need them to try and figure out special moves when they can have something like this. But I'd get rid of invincible wakeups and make them be armored, and would have armor breaking moves that could feasibly counter. It all depends on the meter system I suppose, if they want to keep rolls and even delayed wakeups. Wakeups were definitely an issue in MK11 though but I don't think it was anything to do with the wakeup attacks, it was other stuff like jumping frames and delayed wakeup options.
 
Aside from flawless block and short hops, I hope nothings stays. Universal wake ups, cheesy damage FBKB, dominant throws, auto meter, breakaway. It feels like a party game sometimes.
Mk11 did some things right but the overhaul of mechanics wasn't good.
 

Komatose

The Prettiest
MK11’s combo system was trash. I’ll take MK9 or MKX combo system. MK11 was clunky, slow and unappealing. The set meter was also a godawful idea... Don’t really care if variations stay or go but I can do without... All that universal wakeup and roll crap was trash. Get rid of it...

I don’t know, the entire game was trash to me lmao. I was good at it, but still hated it. Could only play it for light fun and nothing beyond that.
 
The meter system was a joke, no real consequence and meter management was even needed, so rushdown characters who needed to be regulated with meter and how they built were unecessarily annoying.
Oh yea, forgot to mention regenerating meter. But again, I would rather see it tweaked than go back to meter build. Meter building sucked especially in Injustice 2, it was pretty common to hear "My character sucks without meter" or "all my character's good moves require meter", and the top tier characters were always better depending on if they had good damage/utilty meterlessly. Walking down zoners was a lot more annoying in INJ2 than in MK11 too, if they made it so that Flawless Blocking projectiles slightly increased defensive meter regen I'd like it even more. I see your point about wanting more of a meter management aspect for rushdown characters tho, that's the only gripe I really have with it
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Remove:

  • auto-regenerative meter system
  • breakaway
  • de-emphasis of combos
  • flawless blocking
  • variation system
  • wake up system
Redesign:

  • fatal blows (The concept of a comeback mechanic certainly exists in most other contemporary fighting games, but fatal blows currently perform too many functions. They should be limited to one use per match, whether they connect or not, and the armor and push back on block should have never been implemented.)
  • krushing blows (The concept of a counter hit mechanic is of course acceptable, but krushing blows should not replace combos for any character. They should add depth to the game's combo system as counter hits do in other fighting games. Also, please drop such asinine requirements as "late block".)
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
Am I the only one who liked the regenerating meter? Maybe it's because I played Cheetah in Injustice 2, but there's no worse feeling than slowly working your way in against a strong zoner for 20 seconds, only to reach them with zero meter while they have full meter, every single time, over and over. It sucked. As much as people complain about zoning, I'm surprised those same people hate the mechanic specifically designed to keep zoners from having that meter advantage.

Regenerating Fatal Blows were the dumbest mechanic I've ever seen in a fighting game. I imagine it was an engine requirement, since some character were meant to be able to cancel their Fatal Blows and still have access to them. I would guess the engine was too far along before those characters were designed, so it was either take out all Fatal Blow cancels or allow all characters to regenerate their Fatal Blows. That's my guess for why such an incredibly stupid mechanic was allowed to remain.
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
I personally don’t like free meter regeneration. I feel like it takes away a layer of depth from the game and also leads to people just playing lame until they have meter again for free.

That being said, meter building could be handled differently in future titles. Maybe you shouldn’t get meter for whiffing specials and only build it if the attack is blocked? There’s ways to adjust it without removing the concept entirely in favor of something so hand-holdy.
 

Law Hero

You'll do it for free
Am I the only one who liked the regenerating meter? Maybe it's because I played Cheetah in Injustice 2, but there's no worse feeling than slowly working your way in against a strong zoner for 20 seconds, only to reach them with zero meter while they have full meter, every single time, over and over. It sucked. As much as people complain about zoning, I'm surprised those same people hate the mechanic specifically designed to keep zoners from having that meter advantage.

Regenerating Fatal Blows were the dumbest mechanic I've ever seen in a fighting game. I imagine it was an engine requirement, since some character were meant to be able to cancel their Fatal Blows and still have access to them. I would guess the engine was too far along before those characters were designed, so it was either take out all Fatal Blow cancels or allow all characters to regenerate their Fatal Blows. That's my guess for why such an incredibly stupid mechanic was allowed to remain.
Like many of the mechanics in the game, I think it was a novel idea that could work with some more refinement. I don't see anything inherently wrong with it, and like you said, I believe it was implemented in order to better balance the characters having a variety of distinct playstyles which may not all work equally with a traditional meter system. That said, I don't think there was enough variety in playstyle in the game to fully take advantage of it, and I can see why many people dislike it.

If it returned in a future game, I would not be against it, but I would like to see them improve upon it in some way. Also, I'm 100% with you on Fatal Blows. I don't have anything really new to add on the topic of that damnable mechanic, other than it makes MvC3 X-Factor look great in comparison.
 
It's time to erase the Variation System from MK for ever. It was a mistake.
I think the Variation system was excellent in Mortal Kombat XL, it was well defined and consistently executed in that game. It has always felt unfinished in Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate to me. If Variations continue in the franchise, I hope they go back to a standard set like they did in Mortal Kombat XL. I also wouldn't mind if it was removed completely.

Am I the only one who liked the regenerating meter?
I didn't mind it at all. If they went back to a traditional Super Metre, I wouldn't mind that either.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Am I the only one who liked the regenerating meter? Maybe it's because I played Cheetah in Injustice 2, but there's no worse feeling than slowly working your way in against a strong zoner for 20 seconds, only to reach them with zero meter while they have full meter, every single time, over and over. It sucked. As much as people complain about zoning, I'm surprised those same people hate the mechanic specifically designed to keep zoners from having that meter advantage.

Regenerating Fatal Blows were the dumbest mechanic I've ever seen in a fighting game. I imagine it was an engine requirement, since some character were meant to be able to cancel their Fatal Blows and still have access to them. I would guess the engine was too far along before those characters were designed, so it was either take out all Fatal Blow cancels or allow all characters to regenerate their Fatal Blows. That's my guess for why such an incredibly stupid mechanic was allowed to remain.
I don't mind regenerating meter at all. Imagine the meter advantage that someone like Cetrion or Kabal would have under the old system while you block and wait for your opening.
 

Pizza

Thrill Kill
I think the Variation system was excellent in Mortal Kombat XL, it was well defined and consistently executed in that game. It has always felt unfinished in Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate to me. If Variations continue in the franchise, I hope they go back to a standard set like they did in Mortal Kombat XL. I also wouldn't mind if it was removed completely.
I think it was well handled in regards to new characters (Cassie, Jacqui, Dvorah, etc.) because it felt like the different variations had a purpose. And you could choose a specific "version" of those characters.
But to the legacy characters it was a mixed bag.
 

Rizz091

Noob
The only thing I can think of that has any chance at being redesigned to be good are crushing blows. Maybe if they took the street fighter crush counter approach with it? Otherwise it just gave extra damage to already basic and boring combos. And some characters had outrageous conditions while others were designed well.

Wake up system is garbage where the grounded player has the advantage. And every character has the same options so no need to learn match ups. Get rid of it.

Fatal blows are horrible design that rewards you for losing. Even if missing it was death on block and you lost it for missing it, I still wouldn't enjoy them. I don't like 1 button come back mechanics where you just watch a super animation. Give me a tool that I need to actually get good at using and gives both players agency.

Regen meter I can't stand. It just takes away from decision making since you never need to save meter. And since you don't have to do anything to get it back, it further simplifies your in game decision making. No need to do certain moves or combos for meter build, just do what you always do.

Breakaway I could get behind with well designed armor breaks.

Flawless block turns every situation into a guessing game. I can't get behind it. I should be able to enforce my plus frames without fear of getting full comboed.
 

Komatose

The Prettiest
Remove:

  • auto-regenerative meter system
  • breakaway
  • de-emphasis of combos
  • flawless blocking
  • variation system
  • wake up system
Redesign:

  • fatal blows (The concept of a comeback mechanic certainly exists in most other contemporary fighting games, but fatal blows currently perform too many functions. They should be limited to one use per match, whether they connect or not, and the armor and push back on block should have never been implemented.)
  • krushing blows (The concept of a counter hit mechanic is of course acceptable, but krushing blows should not replace combos for any character. They should add depth to the game's combo system as counter hits do in other fighting games. Also, please drop such asinine requirements as "late block".)
100% agree.

Short hop nerfed Liu Kangs instant air fbs, sooo... short hop goodbye!
Usually forget short hopping exists lol. I only use it on their wakeup when they don’t have meter for a mixup since none of my characters have overhead starters lmao Does any character have overhead starters?..
 

Komatose

The Prettiest
I personally don’t like free meter regeneration. I feel like it takes away a layer of depth from the game and also leads to people just playing lame until they have meter again for free.

That being said, meter building could be handled differently in future titles. Maybe you shouldn’t get meter for whiffing specials and only build it if the attack is blocked? There’s ways to adjust it without removing the concept entirely in favor of something so hand-holdy.
Agree.