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I find it astonishing that the mascot of this series and NRS as a whole has seen nothing but nerfs.

Sis, staggering isn't just doing the same thing over and over. There's a mind game behind it and if you always follow the same pattern then, of course, you're gonna get blown up for it - that's why you condition and then you switch it up. There are a lot of stagger options in this game and if you don't take advantage of it that's on you.
aight well I'm a man so skip the sis stuff. the most staggering scorpion can do is f3 and a mixture of 2 or 21. it's the least of dangerous staggers. some scorpions are even as bold to stagger with just b1. that says something when they wanna go for b1 staggers when other options have been exhausted.
 

SonicNinja3532

The Wannabe Prodigy
Flawless blocking Scorpion's F34 rewards you NOTHING. Noone can U2 or U3 to punish that after a FB. (there use to be Geras but he got nerfed). And the frame data is still -7. The risk of eating F34 ranging from a knockdown to a KB into a full big damage combo. Don't ever bring out F34's gap as a negative here, dear Scorpion players.
Uhh, who exactly do you play because I’ve flawless blocked this string and been flawless blocked using it too. Most characters with at least a bit of range can punish it, especially crouch blocking.
 
You are just upset and that's fine.

However most points show that, perhaps, you don't lab your options that much. Scorpion isn't Shao Khan level of hopelessness, I agree that he might need some slight adjustments, like scaling on his KBs for example.



Can't you adjust to this then? That's the concept of mindgames in a nutshell. You try something, doesn't work, you adapt, it works, the other needs to adapt. That's fighting games... Oh! I'm mostly positive not everyone knows to low profile Scorpions B1 with a D4 and if they do, hit the lab, recreate the same scenario and find options to beat the other fella D4.

As a general note, most of this community is lazy, sorry I said it. There are of course some outrageous silly things and situations that will drive you mad, it happens to everyone. However, tons of players let the opponents get away with murder by not labing how to deal with X or Y situation. If the solution isn't obvious, the game sucks or their character sucks.

Take a good look at Biohazard, for example, playing Kano, who people see as a "weak" character, but the guy has been putting up work, not only this gameplan but by taking advantage of the game mechanics, like Flawless Block.

Check Kombat Cup and you'll see folks jumping back 1 or 2 vs Jacqui Bionic Bounce and it works.

Just stop being lazy and get to work! You won't discover gunpowder, but at least you gain match up knowledge, which will make a difference.

I get it tho, it's easier to say than to do.
I haven't been put in a situation where scorpion's b1 could be low profiled. I didn't even know that was possible but to be fair if it is an often occurrence then it's pretty stupid that a mid is being low profiled. there are already enough nrs hitbox problems in the game
 
I haven't been put in a situation where scorpion's b1 could be low profiled. I didn't even know that was possible but to be fair if it is an often occurrence then it's pretty stupid that a mid is being low profiled. there are already enough nrs hitbox problems in the game
Yeah it unfortunately happens quite a bit. Noob Saibot for instance has a d4 that makes him nearly disappear.
 

Nevan_PTF

All your mains belong to me!
I haven't been put in a situation where scorpion's b1 could be low profiled. I didn't even know that was possible but to be fair if it is an often occurrence then it's pretty stupid that a mid is being low profiled. there are already enough nrs hitbox problems in the game
I found it odd as well, but if it happens then I can be replicated to confirm if there's anything to do against it or if it is indeed just hitbox/hurtbox issues.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
I feel like most Cover Art characters or Mascot Characters in fighting games end up being mostly mid tier or lower. Or at the very least, rarely top tier.
 
I found it odd as well, but if it happens then I can be replicated to confirm if there's anything to do against it or if it is indeed just hitbox/hurtbox issues.
the thing to do against it would be to fix it internally. no way it was a design choice that some male characters ( i say male because they're known for having slightly bigger hurtboxes than women) can just go under a mid. a MID. I've even posted about a couple hitbox/hurtbox issues myself that scorpion has with a select few of characters
 
I feel like most Cover Art characters or Mascot Characters in fighting games end up being mostly mid tier or lower. Or at the very least, rarely top tier.
they should at least have the right of being mid high. ryu was mid high at the start but he got nerfed (unreasonably nerfed btw) and it wasn't until season 5 i believe where he could be a somewhat good character again
 

Nevan_PTF

All your mains belong to me!
the thing to do against it would be to fix it internally. no way it was a design choice that some male characters ( i say male because they're known for having slightly bigger hurtboxes than women) can just go under a mid. a MID. I've even posted about a couple hitbox/hurtbox issues myself that scorpion has with a select few of characters
I see, wasn't aware of those issues.
 

Pygmy_Potato

BF4+FF+BLK
Offense, but a lot of scorpions are... sus.

Only one I’d trust their opinion on what the character needs would be Phoenix from AZ.

I vividly recall going from “Scorpion is nothing to worry about” to “Wow, I don’t actually know this MU” after playing him.
 

SonicNinja3532

The Wannabe Prodigy
Lol absolutely busted. Undeniable.
What exactly makes him broken? He doesn’t have many plus frames, he has a good mid in terms of start up, but its minus at all parts of the string, enough that he can’t stagger it that well. His mixups are also pretty fuzziable, the f142/f14~bf2 mixup isn’t real in the slightest, and he doesn’t really have any other lows in strings to mixup with.

His setups aren’t that scary due to the fact that they’re mid plus all the wakeup options too. His damage is high in one variation that has limited setups and definitely no way to open you up, which isn’t threatening. I’m not saying he is a bad character by any means because he’s definitely good, but he’s absolutely not broken by any means. Just lab his options and you’ll see there’s plenty of counter play.
 

Xelz

Go over there!
I’ve been a Scorpion main since MK1 first arrived in arcades, so take this statement from that perspective: I completely agree with Scorpion’s teleport nerf. The move is there for hard reads and punishing predictable opponents. It’s not there to eff the neutral game.

Scorpion's problem is that his move set - aside from the original mid-hitting teleport - was built around the original vision for MK11. Meanwhile, the teams designing other characters clearly didn’t understand that vision and turned MK11 into a game that Scorpion wasn’t designed for.

The only way you’ll see Scorpion fit into MK11 is if his move set is completely reworked, or if good chunks of the rest of the cast get reworked. There are multiple competing visions, ideas, and balance goals within MK11, creating incoherent and misaligned gameplay from one character to the next.

God this game is a mess.
 
What exactly makes him broken? He doesn’t have many plus frames, he has a good mid in terms of start up, but its minus at all parts of the string, enough that he can’t stagger it that well. His mixups are also pretty fuzziable, the f142/f14~bf2 mixup isn’t real in the slightest, and he doesn’t really have any other lows in strings to mixup with.

His setups aren’t that scary due to the fact that they’re mid plus all the wakeup options too. His damage is high in one variation that has limited setups and definitely no way to open you up, which isn’t threatening. I’m not saying he is a bad character by any means because he’s definitely good, but he’s absolutely not broken by any means. Just lab his options and you’ll see there’s plenty of counter play.
Literally everything in the op. He gets everything handed to him with the utmost ease. The range of his normals is disgusting and fast. His hitbox is non existent when he's crouching and still small when he's standing. He gets a low projectile that he amplifies and locks you in for a bunch of chip damage. A high projectile, that stupid Jack in the box thing or whatever it is that explodes and launches you. His pokes are fast, his d4 is very far reaching. Braindead easy krushing blows. And his damage is high across the board...so please dont feed me that one variation bullshit. A far reaching uppercut. Just everything. Literally everything. He has a set up (dont ask me which) that leaves him PLUS 23....let that sink in. Meanwhile Misery Blade 3 was nerfed on hit advantage from 22 to 11 frames.

He is utterly busted. There is no use trying to play footsies with him because he just wins. He is one of the absolute worst editions to this game. A cancer.

I’ve been a Scorpion main since MK1 first arrived in arcades, so take this statement from that perspective: I completely agree with Scorpion’s teleport nerf. The move is there for hard reads and punishing predictable opponents. It’s not there to eff the neutral game.

Scorpion's problem is that his move set - aside from the original mid-hitting teleport - was built around the original vision for MK11. Meanwhile, the teams designing other characters clearly didn’t understand that vision and turned MK11 into a game that Scorpion wasn’t designed for.

The only way you’ll see Scorpion fit into MK11 is if his move set is completely reworked, or if good chunks of the rest of the cast get reworked. There are multiple competing visions, ideas, and balance goals within MK11, creating incoherent and misaligned gameplay from one character to the next.

God this game is a mess.
Agree completely, fix his mid low profiling problems (fix everybody's honestly) and give him a faster B1 and he will compete with the very best.
 
it's like I've already been through this. there are general changes and buffs i'd like to made to scorpion's kit but there is also some truly dumb shit going on with scorpion that I just wanna know what are they thinking? is paulo even fit to balance anymore?

like faster b1 or f3 all i'm asking for is 9 or 11 frames like what they gave to liu.

both 11 and 112 are -6. why? 11 should be -2 to -3 so it can be used as a stagger.

b141 does nothing but be used as a chip out string which is complete bullshit. you're telling me if i wanna chip out i gotta go for the most unsafe option? why remove the special cancel on it from the reveal build. plenty of characters with cancellable 3 button strings.

212 krushing blow doing dot damage instead of raw damage is wack.

spear not stunning meterlessly is honestly more of a personal gripe. i mean i can live without it but why change the formula? injustice 1 tried the shit but that's injustice.

I can't remember which it is but buff the hit advantage on his d1/d3 so that he can properly jail s2

and that's just his base kit.

Reborn: teleport is now a high so you're moving towards softening up the variation. demon slam does nothing for you in the neutral or even in combos. in mk9 when you did air grab that gave you a guaranteed i believe it was ex hellfire (which scorpion does not have in mk11 btw). it is pretty much a hard read tool. you get the krushing blow from it and that's it why even go for it anymore. I'm not even sure what to do with this variation tbh. some people wanna nerf it even more by making the teleport away cancel cost 2 bars of defense.

Searing rage: ex burning spear. now I'm not sure if you could combo off the activation of it in the beta but since the beginning of the game it has done nothing but been a waste of meter. no one has yet to tell me what it does. it is literally the same as the regular version except you spend a bar for nothing. so give it some extra hit advantage so you can combo off of it. let's say we go back to b141; it's just a chip out string. well now in searing rage it's even more of a why use it when you have death spin. buring spear + death spin is guaranteed to get you more rounds then b141.

Burning specter: we though scorpion mains was rising up. here come the 3rd variations. scorpion about to get a little sauce. misery blade 3 is nerfed. misery blade cancel costs bar (which is super funny because they actually implemented that nerf before they added the 3rd variations so maybe they were nerfing it solely for the casual customs side but it's like who cares about that side. that's just for fun. why are they even spending man hours buffing and nerfing non competitive abilities?) while other characters are running around cancelling for free.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
He feels limited. Most of his strings are also slow and easy to read. His staggers are especially easy to read these days.

All I really want is a buff to b1....11 frames...12 max.

He would be 100% viable with this alone imo.
Half of the characters in this game have the same problem though.

If my character only had an 11f low or mid with no gap on strings after :rolleyes:
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Nrs listens to bitching online players (some pros included) and makes these adjustments. Meanwhile a lot of the complainers have no offline experience. That's for the teleport nerf...

Why they nerfed his d4 the way they did? No idea but it was his best footsie tool imo. Led to b2 and etc.