I find it astonishing that the mascot of this series and NRS as a whole has seen nothing but nerfs.

[RustDustandGuts]

Even to go as far as mocking Scorpion users on Twitter after the teleport nerf back then.

Meanwhile a character as completely out of place and meaningless to MK as Joker comes in and he's very blatantly and shamelessly busted.

I feel like he has literally everything including a tiny hurt box.

Ridiculous damage, plus frames, great start up frames, mix ups, projectiles, ranged normals, advancing strings, great pokes, set ups, easy krushing blows.

I never minded the teleport becoming a high, but his frame data is too poor to hang with characters that have their 9 to 11 frame combo starters.

His mids even get low profiled often. Its depressing.

Misery blade would be nice if 3 didn't whiff several characters.

B143 not being special cancelable never ever made sense.

He gets next to no tournament use as a result.

I'll never understand why NRS designed him the way they did, only to cave under the pressure of complaining. They refuse to adjust him in any positive context, but so much dirt is left in the game and more is being added.

I mean look at upgraded Jacqui...full screen, unreactable jump ins with built in 50/50s, but that is apparently okay.

I don't get it.

 

[kabelfritz]

nrs is just bad at balancing and they repeat the same mistake over and over and over again: make characters that are extraordinary good at multiple things. like having great mixups, huge combos and top zoning at once.

 

[Zviko]

Agree except I don't get why would B143 be special cancelable? It's already the best string he has that is hit confirmable and doesn't have a gap. And it's advancing from a back button which is very strong in this game. He needs changes elsewhere not with B143.

 

[RustDustandGuts]

Agree except I don't get why would B143 be special cancelable? It's already the best string he has that is hit confirmable and doesn't have a gap. And it's advancing from a back button which is very strong in this game. He needs changes elsewhere not with B143.

Because he has unsafe strings like B141 and flawless block gaps in other strings.

He feels limited. Most of his strings are also slow and easy to read. His staggers are especially easy to read these days.

All I really want is a buff to b1....11 frames...12 max.

He would be 100% viable with this alone imo.

 

[Zviko]

Because he has unsafe strings like B141 and flawless block gaps in other strings.

He feels limited. Most of his strings are also slow and easy to read. His staggers are especially easy to read these days.

Which is why it would be logical to buff those not something that's already pretty good. Also, you can confirm into launcher from B14 alone. Wouldn't it be more logical if F34 is special cancelable then?

All I really want is a buff to b1....11 frames...12 max.

He would be 100% viable with this alone imo.

This is a lot better suggestion. I wouldn't mind it.

 

[RustDustandGuts]

Which is why it would be logical to buff those not something that's already pretty good. Also, you can confirm into launcher from B14 alone. Wouldn't it be more logical if F34 is special cancelable then?



This is a lot better suggestion. I wouldn't mind it.

Yeah lol f34 into spear or teleport would look really slick without needing a KB.

Glad we agree on that back 1 buff though. I just dont think they'll ever do it.

Face of the franchise getting treated like trash.

Oblivious to it too.

 

[Metin]

Scorpion has (f34, f42, b2, 212) four gaps.. which makes him weaker than half of the roster.. he only has 112 and b143.. good scorpion players always trying to hit me by b1 string until it is connected because they knows i am gonna flawless block the other strings or gonna interrupt the f3 stagger. high projectile is pretty useless because the recovery is shit like, also no free hit for the spear in this game. this is the another thing that i hate, you always have to spend bar to hit confirm the spear or teleport.. now teleport is a high, easy to punish the regular teleport, at the other hand amplified teleport is even easier LoL.. Also scorpion dot damages can be easily runied by fatal blows or krushing blows.. Yeah something is wrong here, he need another touch in a good way but i am not sure they gonna do that.. I am not sure about my ideas but here they are;

• Free hit for the spear? (dreaming)
• Pushback for amplified teleport.. (dreaming)
• reworking on some of his gaps, some of them or one of them could be no more flawless blockable (could be the best way)
• 310 damage instead of dot damage for the throw krushing blow, more damage for 212 krushing blow combo ender just like Sub-Zero's 124..

 

[DarkSado]

Even to go as far as mocking Scorpion users on Twitter after the teleport nerf back then.

Meanwhile a character as completely out of place and meaningless to MK as Joker comes in and he's very blatantly and shamelessly busted.

I feel like he has literally everything including a tiny hurt box.

Ridiculous damage, plus frames, great start up frames, mix ups, projectiles, ranged normals, advancing strings, great pokes, set ups, easy krushing blows.

I never minded the teleport becoming a high, but his frame data is too poor to hang with characters that have their 9 to 11 frame combo starters.

His mids even get low profiled often. Its depressing.

Misery blade would be nice if 3 didn't whiff several characters.

B143 not being special cancelable never ever made sense.

He gets next to no tournament use as a result.

I'll never understand why NRS designed him the way they did, only to cave under the pressure of complaining. They refuse to adjust him in any positive context, but some much dirt is left in the game and more is being added.

I mean look at upgraded Jacqui...full screen, unreactable jump ins with built in 50/50s, but that is apparently okay.

I don't get it.

It’s because he in a bad game.

 

[SaSSolino]

Scorpion has (f34, f42, b2, 212) four gaps.. which makes him weaker than half of the roster.

Isn't he also stronger than half the roster then?

 

[Metin]

Isn't he also stronger than half the roster then?

He should be, he has good staggers but i don't think so.

Cage, Cetrion, Geras, Liu Kang, Kabal, Sub-Zero, Joker, Nightwolf, Sindel, Jacqui Briggs, Cassie Cage, Noob Saibot, Baraka, Kotal Kahn, Jax, Sonya, Shang Tsung, Raiden(Raijin), Kollector... Tell me he has more advantages than anyone else in this list. There are 19 characters. i am sure i forgot some characters too..

 

[Sage Leviathan]

Even to go as far as mocking Scorpion users on Twitter after the teleport nerf back then.

Meanwhile a character as completely out of place and meaningless to MK as Joker comes in and he's very blatantly and shamelessly busted.

I feel like he has literally everything including a tiny hurt box.

Ridiculous damage, plus frames, great start up frames, mix ups, projectiles, ranged normals, advancing strings, great pokes, set ups, easy krushing blows.

I never minded the teleport becoming a high, but his frame data is too poor to hang with characters that have their 9 to 11 frame combo starters.

His mids even get low profiled often. Its depressing.

Misery blade would be nice if 3 didn't whiff several characters.

B143 not being special cancelable never ever made sense.

He gets next to no tournament use as a result.

I'll never understand why NRS designed him the way they did, only to cave under the pressure of complaining. They refuse to adjust him in any positive context, but so much dirt is left in the game and more is being added.

I mean look at upgraded Jacqui...full screen, unreactable jump ins with built in 50/50s, but that is apparently okay.

I don't get it.

I'm gonna address some things that should make you feel better about Scorpion.

-The teleport becoming a high did not affect anyone who used it properly to begin with.
-To my knowledge his mids (primarily f3 and b1) do not get low profiled.
-MS3 whiffs sometimes, true. But every string you cancel into MS is safe when finished anyway. Tbh the best part of V3 isn't misery blade, it's the sin blade njp.
-Winning tournaments left and right is not a requisite for being a good character, or being recognized as good; see: Kabal. Also, Scorpion was instrumental in helping Scar win CB 2019.

Pointing out another character's strengths doesn't mean your character is weak necessarily. It just means they're strong in their own ways and Scorpion is strong in his. He's got a 7f jab and a 14f mid. If they're blocking too much, throw.

V1 is a different take on V1 Raiden.
V2 has 17% throws and 45% standing punishes.
V3 makes people afraid to wake up or AA when you neutral jump.

 

[RustDustandGuts]

Scorpion has (f34, f42, b2, 212) four gaps.. which makes him weaker than half of the roster.. he only has 112 and b143.. good scorpion players always trying to hit me by b1 string until it is connected because they knows i am gonna flawless block the other strings or gonna interrupt the f3 stagger. high projectile is pretty useless because the recovery is shit like, also no free hit for the spear in this game. this is the another thing that i hate, you always have to spend bar to hit confirm the spear or teleport.. now teleport is a high, easy to punish the regular teleport, at the other hand amplified teleport is even easier LoL.. Also scorpion dot damages can be easily runied by fatal blows or krushing blows.. Yeah something is wrong here, he need another touch in a good way but i am not sure they gonna do that.. I am not sure about my ideas but here they are;

• Free hit for the spear? (dreaming)
• Pushback for amplified teleport.. (dreaming)
• reworking on some of his gaps, some of them or one of them could be no more flawless blockable (could be the best way)
• 310 damage instead of dot damage for the throw krushing blow, more damage for 212 krushing blow combo ender just like Sub-Zero's 124..

I definitely like those ideas, but I still would take a buffed and faster b1

I'm gonna address some things that should make you feel better about Scorpion.

-The teleport becoming a high did not affect anyone who used it properly to begin with.
-To my knowledge his mids (primarily f3 and b1) do not get low profiled.
-MS3 whiffs sometimes, true. But every string you cancel into MS is safe when finished anyway. Tbh the best part of V3 isn't misery blade, it's the sin blade njp.
-Winning tournaments left and right is not a requisite for being a good character, or being recognized as good; see: Kabal. Also, Scorpion was instrumental in helping Scar win CB 2019.

Pointing out another character's strengths doesn't mean your character is weak necessarily. It just means they're strong in their own ways and Scorpion is strong in his. He's got a 7f jab and a 14f mid. If they're blocking too much, throw.

V1 is a different take on V1 Raiden.
V2 has 17% throws and 45% standing punishes.
V3 makes people afraid to wake up or AA when you neutral jump.

Those are fair points. However f3 and b1 were ironically the moves I meant were being low profiled.

Two examples are Erron and Noob's D4s...many times I know for a fact I should have at the minimum traded with these attacks but it straight up rewarded them.

Stuff is frustrating. Feels like other characters can do what they want once they're up close.

Liu Kang seems very plus on all his staggers and idk if it's an online thing, but it is very hard to get out of with Scorpion.

Just my experience.

 

[Seobones]

Is Joker really busted right now with the throw glitch still not patched ?

 

[RustDustandGuts]

Is Joker really busted right now with the throw glitch still not patched ?

With just how busted he is with all his tools both offensive and defensive....I legitimately believe it shouldn't be patched at all. He's horrendously cheap.

 

[Dogeofthesea]

Flawless blocking Scorpion's F34 rewards you NOTHING. Noone can U2 or U3 to punish that after a FB. (there use to be Geras but he got nerfed). And the frame data is still -7. The risk of eating F34 ranging from a knockdown to a KB into a full big damage combo. Don't ever bring out F34's gap as a negative here, dear Scorpion players.

 

[RustDustandGuts]

Flawless blocking Scorpion's F34 rewards you NOTHING. Noone can U2 or U3 to punish that after a FB. (there use to be Geras but he got nerfed). And the frame data is still -7. The risk of eating F34 ranging from a knockdown to a KB into a full big damage combo. Don't ever bring out F34's gap as a negative here, dear Scorpion players.

I definitely remember having been flawless block punished in the past ...is there any proof of every character being unable to do it?

 

[Rodney Quillz]

I definitely remember having been flawless block punished in the past ...is there any proof of every character being unable to do it?

Certain distances, I know in the corner for sure your fb u2/u3 will whiff.

 

[spidey300]

damn scorpion thread? feels good since no one talks about scorpion after every online player and their mother complained about mid teleport. mans was like supposedly top 1 if not top 5 because teleport was the great divider. now every tier list has him bottom 5. that was all it took huh?

 

[Rodney Quillz]

damn scorpion thread? feels good since no one talks about scorpion after every online player and their mother complained about mid teleport. mans was like supposedly top 1 if not top 5 because teleport was the great divider. now every tier list has him bottom 5. that was all it took huh?

Dude is top 5 online still, same with subby wubby.

top tier WiFi characters for sure.

 

[spidey300]

Dude is top 5 online still, same with subby wubby.

top tier WiFi characters for sure.

online presence shouldn't be what it takes to get my character buffed or nerfed though. i believe subzero has yet to be nerfed other than being like circumcised into not having a real ice clone. he's still 50/50ing people to death online but what's his offline presence? barely existent. i heard about the one subzero that did well at some online tournament and then there's buffalo who talks like he pretty much dropped mk11

 

[spidey300]

Even to go as far as mocking Scorpion users on Twitter after the teleport nerf back then.

Meanwhile a character as completely out of place and meaningless to MK as Joker comes in and he's very blatantly and shamelessly busted.

I feel like he has literally everything including a tiny hurt box.

Ridiculous damage, plus frames, great start up frames, mix ups, projectiles, ranged normals, advancing strings, great pokes, set ups, easy krushing blows.

I never minded the teleport becoming a high, but his frame data is too poor to hang with characters that have their 9 to 11 frame combo starters.

His mids even get low profiled often. Its depressing.

Misery blade would be nice if 3 didn't whiff several characters.

B143 not being special cancelable never ever made sense.

He gets next to no tournament use as a result.

I'll never understand why NRS designed him the way they did, only to cave under the pressure of complaining. They refuse to adjust him in any positive context, but so much dirt is left in the game and more is being added.

I mean look at upgraded Jacqui...full screen, unreactable jump ins with built in 50/50s, but that is apparently okay.

I don't get it.

scorpion was so supposed to be the basis of their footsie/neutral development mindset. as they developed more characters they started regressing back to their old ways or just lost the goal.

 

[Zviko]

scorpion was so supposed to be the basis of their footsie/neutral development mindset. as they developed more characters they started regressing back to their old ways or just lost the goal.

It really does feel like this. I wish every character played like Scorpion. I played mirror against very decent Scorpion who doesn't random tp and stuff and those were the most fun games I've had in this game so far.

 

[RustDustandGuts]

scorpion was so supposed to be the basis of their footsie/neutral development mindset. as they developed more characters they started regressing back to their old ways or just lost the goal.

This definitely seems accurate. I'm really going very cautiously if at all into MK12 because NRS seems extremely untrustworthy in how they show off the vision they have only to shit all over it.

Feels like being robbed.

I'm holding out some hope that he'll get buffed in a future patch. Not realistic, I know.

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

For reasons, NRS throw a lot of shit there and try to balance after....weknow that, but I think it is interesting to address something that I realized after reading the thread:

It is an analogy that is applied to life in general, not only fighting games. You can apply this on politics, work... I mean.... you choose.
People instead of looking how crap the system is, what the big picture is, and try to change the big picture.... they want the bullshit that works for themselves instead of demanding balance overall.
Instead of saying "the game is unfair and needs change", they say "Char x or y is bullshit....so, my char does not have that, hence, i need the bullshit for meeee. NRS....give bullshit to my character!Its unfair!"
Dude.... if you want justice look at the big picture. Looking at your char and whining over that.... and ignoring all the other chars that don't have the tools, the mechanics..... all the shit that we talk about.... it is unfair too. It's a cycle of unfairness.
The system throws unfair shit. You accept that, or, you claim bullshit for you and ignore others. That is not.... the path I think.

 

[spidey300]

This definitely seems accurate. I'm really going very cautiously if at all into MK12 because NRS seems extremely untrustworthy in how they show off the vision they have only to shit all over it.

Feels like being robbed.

I'm holding out some hope that he'll get buffed in a future patch. Not realistic, I know.

mk11 still has some fun moments. it's an ok game but i definitely regret buying it day 1. mk12 im gonna hold on to my money a little longer before i go in