I’m Done, You’re All Scrubs...

Discussion in 'Fighting Philosophy' started by Juggs, Dec 4, 2017.

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  1. Juggs

    Juggs Lose without excuses
    Lead Moderator

    Not sure if any of you have seen this article from a couple of years ago, but it’s really a great article:

    https://mrkingfunk.wordpress.com/2015/12/04/player-perspective/

    The main topic of the article is certain mindsets of players in fighting games. It focuses on 4 types: The Novice, The Scrub, The Mid Level Player, and The High Level Player. There’s definitely a few more than this, but these 4 cover the spectrum.

    I really think myself and others have fallen into the “mid level” category. In fact, I’d say there’s probably only a handful of people at most who fall into the “high level” player category within the context of this article in the NRS community. I want y’all to read the entire article, it’s a very good article in general if you’re a competitive FG player. But I really wanted to highlight the mid level player aspect because I think it applies to most players here and in our scene. Unfortunately, there’s also a lot the “scrubs”, but I’ll stay away from that for now. ;)

    ___________________________________

    The mid level player

    [​IMG]

    “The mid level player has a better idea of what’s going on. He can see that his st. MK lost to Evil Ryu’s cr. MP. However, the problem here is that he settles for a misleading conclusion as to what this all means. Instead of considering the fact that his footsies might be predictable (the way he walks, the way he interacts with the opponent’s movement & actions, the timing at which he presses buttons, etc.), he immediately assumes that st. MK is not a very good tool in the matchup. After all, it just lost right? Nah. The fact is, any move can almost always have a purpose in a matchup if used at the right time. Sure, st. MK lost here, but what if he pressed it a few frames earlier? He would have most likely stuffed Evil Ryu’s cr. MP. A few frames later? That would have most likely whiff punished it.”

    “The mid level player might know all the moves in the game. He may even have good execution and do perfect Ibuki loops for all we know. But he will not understand the game itself to the same extent that a high level player does. He will often make poorly thought out conclusions based on his experiences because he usually does not have an open mind. Fighting games do not always have clear cut “yes” or “no” answers to everything, there are lots of “maybes” and “perhaps”. Not everything is black or white, and the grey zone is in fact massive. The mid level player might also even delude himself into thinking he is already playing at a high level.”

    How to evolve from the mid level: the problem you are likely to have is a lack of understanding of the game as a whole (or as we like to call it, “fundamentals”). You have most of the pieces of the puzzle, but you haven’t quite put them together yet, so you are not able yet to see the big picture. Everything in the game plays an important yet complementary role (footsies, space/time control, yomi, meter management). To see the big picture, you have to open your mind, be honest with yourself and start thinking about the game in a deeper way than you have previously done. Always be critical of any situation and always ask yourself questions, and always be willing to test out solutions. And when you test out solutions, don’t immediately discard them if you are not initially successful with them. Try and ask yourself why they didn’t work in this particular case and whether they could still work if used slightly differently. Curiosity is key. The most common aspect of Street Fighter mid level players don’t understand well enough are footsies and it’s usually a key to reaching the higher levels of play. For Street Fighter footsies, every player should watch this video by Juicebox:
    While the tone in the video might be confrontational and perhaps a bit rude, it’s quite the honest eye opener for virtually any mid level player. Not only does it show you how footsies work in that game, it shows you the amount of work you have to put in to truly understand them, in each and every matchup.”

    Just for a quick comparison to what the “high level player” is thinking in this situation:

    [​IMG]

    ___________________________________

    Hope this is informative and helpful for anyone who takes the time to read it. I already knew this stuff but it really helped hearing/seeing it from a different perspective. It made me realize that I HAVE fallen into the mid level player mentality, when I used to have the high level player mentality. It’s just hard with newer games sometimes, at least for me. There’s so much more information and honestly BS in these new games compared to say SF3:3S, UMK3, MKT, etc. So instead of doing what I used to do in these games, I essentially do something very similar as to what he describes in this article that the mid level player does.

    But aside from that, he makes some very good points about talent, time management, and becoming good at the game. Work ethic plays a big role in becoming good in any competitive video game, most notably fighting games. There’s a reason why players like Dragon and SonicFox are consistent. It’s not that they are just naturally that much better than everyone else, it’s about what they put their time into and not being lazy about it. Biggest example of this is SonicFox not focusing on Injustice 2 as much and thus not performing as well as he normally does. It’s not nearly based on “talent” as much as people think. You really have to put in the work in order to be successful in tournaments. And it’s much more about the quality of time than the quantity of time. Unfortunately though, quantity definitely plays a factor.

    Anyway, what are y’alls thoughts or responses to this?

    *And yeah... definitely a click bait title. Really was thinking of a good title, but didn’t think most of you would click on the thread if it was something actually reasonable, lmao.
     
    #1
  2. tafka Djinn

    tafka Djinn One for three off the roof

    I was really excited about a community blow up from an angry mod who was just done. But instead I get a good article from two years ago... Fair enough.
     
    #2
    Marlow, Barrogh, Marinjuana and 21 others like this.
  3. Juggs

    Juggs Lose without excuses
    Lead Moderator

    Sorry, I really am. I decided click bait was the best way to go. Pls forgive
     
    #3
    HellblazerHawkman likes this.
  4. Braindead

    Braindead High-functioning Scrub

    [​IMG]
     
    #4
  5. Vengeance135

    Vengeance135 Saltiest Joker Player

    Great article sir
     
    #5
    Juggs likes this.
  6. Crusty

    Crusty Carpe Noctem

    Before I read:

    Juggs confirmed worst mod via clickbaiting :DOGE
     
    #6
  7. Juggs

    Juggs Lose without excuses
    Lead Moderator

    I accept this role with pride.
     
    #7
  8. Eldriken

    Eldriken Apokoliptian Overlord
    Forum General Premium Supporter

    PSN:
    Eldriken
    Intentional clickbait...?

    BANNED.

    Kidding. Kidding.

    Definitely a good read. Thanks for sharing.
     
    #8
    CrimsonShadow and Juggs like this.
  9. Slymind

    Slymind Noob

  10. Redk9

    Redk9 Noob

    The fact that so many members of this community constantly ask for nerfs instead of learning to adapt, yet will ironically not realize they fit into the scrub category is disappointing.

    If you want the game to change instead of changing the way you play the game you’re a scrub
     
    #10
  11. Roy Arkon

    Roy Arkon I will leave my seal on you!

    PSN:
    RoyArkon46
    Good article, nice stuff.
     
    #11
    Juggs likes this.
  12. Your post was the final push I needed to come to terms with the fact I an a scrub. Thank you, Juggs. Now that I have finally accepted it I can live a happy life.
     
    #12
  13. I feel like that's kind of a fine line. Sure there are those types of players like you describe. But I wouldn't necessarily deem people who wanted Deadshot nerfed "scrubs." Sometimes characters are just broken.
     
    #13
    Barrogh, God Confirm and Meep8345 like this.
  14. GLoRToR

    GLoRToR The ire of the Starf!

    Nevair. Good article though.
     
    #14
    Juggs likes this.
  15. Redk9

    Redk9 Noob

    The same people that asked for nerfs for deadshot we’re the same people that asked for nerfs for Adam, Aquaman, Catwoman, Superman and now Supergirl. The mindset itself is a slippery slope. Once you tell yourself you only lost because that character is “overpowered” or “stupid” you most likely won’t stop.
     
    #15
    HellblazerHawkman likes this.
  16. A lot of them probably were, but I don't think it's fair to lump everyone into the same group. I knew DS was gonna get hit with the nerf bat sooner or later because it was just SO easy to see he wasn't balanced. And I was glad to see it happen.

    I really do get what you're saying, but I can't pretend to believe that NRS gets it right 100% of the time. They do not make changes based on what they see on this forum. I just don't agree that one has to believe the game is perfectly balanced from launch in order to not be thrown under the "scrub" umbrella.
     
    #16
  17. DDutchguy

    DDutchguy Raiden enthusiast

    XBL:
    DDutchguy
    I really appreciate these kinds of articles and posts you put here in the Fighting Philosophy forum Juggs, it really puts into words the issues I had that I never truly realised I had. The mid tier mindset is something I go for criminally often, making excuses about “oh hey this solution didn’t work this time, ergo it will never work”. That’s absolute bullshit and I do it far too often.

    Basic deal is, whenever I get hit, I made a mistake. I can tell myself that the other player was just doing random shit, or was just throwing something out there, or their character was just better, but in the end none of that matters because I got hit. And therefore I’m the one that did something wrong.

    Do you have any other articles like this Juggs? I’ve already seen a bunch around on this subforum, but if you have any others I’d really appreciate it if you shared them with us some time.
     
    #17
    Juggs likes this.
  18. Tanno

    Tanno The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind

    @Juggs , I'm done with you, clickbitch. Next time, I won't fall to the next thread you make.:DOGE

    Jokes aside...

    I'm pretty much the mid-tier fella here. I'm still a learning guy and have a long way to go before I hit the high level. The more I play against the high-tier fellas, the more I improve myself, and I'll have to thank everyone for that.

    In the fight, I usually think aloud "I see" (in Greek) when I see something that either doesn't work, or notice even the slightest gap, or some tech happens there. Then I devise the next plan to try solving all these. Sometimes I fall upon some techs, or tactics I would never use and think that they work, so I work to try them again and improve them, or go back to training mode to lab on and improve them. In training mode, I tend to include all possibilities until I rule them out and keep those that work, just like the "What if..." stories.

    I don't know what this would make me if not a lab rat.
     
    #18
    Juggs likes this.
  19. HellblazerHawkman

    HellblazerHawkman Confused Thanagarian
    News Editor

    Novice in game, high tier in theory crafting. Don't know if I should be proud or ashamed
     
    #19
    Yoaks likes this.
  20. Israel

    Israel Noob

    Hm.. yes this may be info that most people may already know. But its always good to express those same thoughts on paper or publicly to really evaluate whats going on. Which is why this is a good article dealing with the MENTALITY... however, if (and only IF) it was also intended to help a player BECOME a high level player (in game)..

    then either there is a part 2 to this article, or it is unfinished. To go into the concept of balance in the game and the approach of 7-3, 6-4, and 5-5 mu's.

    Because him saying
    is opening up a can of worms. I finished the read and i understand what hes coming from when he says this. But this could justify anybody telling someone who as an issue with a move by saying "Nah, no move is useless. because you should have just pressed it earlier." Like no ones a robot lol.

    Fact is, some moves are actually useless or borderline useless in general, and depending on the mu, the move could not be useful.
     
    #20
    Barrogh likes this.
  21. Israel

    Israel Noob

    Another fun fact... you can have the mentality of a High level player, and still lose a ft3-ft5 set against someone who has the mentality of a Mid level player. Pending on the mu and the game, the high level player could complain about the game/mu/character, but if he does this..wont ppl still call him a scrub? But the mentality is a very good place to start.
     
    #21
  22. scarsunseen

    scarsunseen Safeties disabled. Mod mode engaged.
    Moderator

    I feel like a mid/high level player who just doesn't have enough time to invest in Inj2 right now because WORK WORK WORK WORK WORK. I'm trying to level up though. I had a lot more time to invest in MKX because I was working from home at that time.
     
    #22
  23. Same I was expecting juggs to go on a rampage and ban everyone
     
    #23
    The_Tile, Juggs and tafka Djinn like this.
  24. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    PSN:
    eddywangmk
    I guess i have passed the mid level player sometime ago lol, my line of though is so much better than this.
     
    #24
  25. Sazbak

    Sazbak Noob

    "You are not going to improve if you mindlessly grind a game without doing something about your mistakes."

    I knew this for a while but still keep doing it regardless. I just usually spam ranked everyday and it doesn't improve me much as it used to be at the beginning. Also I feel a little bit of a burnout since I haven't really played anything else for a while beside I2 or to be more specific, Supergirl. I should either try out some fun non-competitive game to relax for a few days or start to learn a new character. I'm bored with Supergirl tbh but I think it's too troublesome to be decent with another character so I keep procastrinating learning a new one.
     
    #25

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