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How to read Practice Mode Hit Levels

I'm sure by now you have noticed how moves that are not high say high lol...

1. Highs and special mids aka mids that you can block while still crouching, will show up as "high" in practice mode. the way to test whats high and mid is put the cpu to crouch without block.

2. Some attacks say "medium". these refer to overheads which cannot be blocked in crouch. anytime you see "medium" it means the attack is an overhead.

3. lows mean low. shouldnt be too much confusion over this lol..
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Bumping because this went unnoticed (Even by me... >.>).
 

sebiel

Noob
I'm not sure, but I think that there might not be character-specific stuff going on in terms of high vs sp.mid attacks. One weird thing I found was that there is a tiny window of spacing where Human Cyrax's standing 1 will get blocked by a crouching Human Sektor.

That leads me to believe that there might not be "real" highs and sp.mids in this game, and rather it's just a matter of hitboxes-- which would make some highs character-specific. Has anyone noticed any highs that are duckable by some characters and not by others?
 
I still think that is stupid that Kano's :r:fk is a special mid, it's a kick to the ankle, why on earth wouldn't it be a low, it hurt his game a lot because if it where a low he could have at least 1 string to mix up stuff from high and low, currently he has 0 mix ups, unlike for example Raiden who can mix high and lows from like 4 different strings.

Also, IMO, the property labels are retarded, it should be High, Mid, Low and Overhead, special mid only lead to confusions.
 

DrDogg

Noob
I still think that is stupid that Kano's :r:fk is a special mid, it's a kick to the ankle, why on earth wouldn't it be a low, it hurt his game a lot because if it where a low he could have at least 1 string to mix up stuff from high and low, currently he has 0 mix ups, unlike for example Raiden who can mix high and lows from like 4 different strings.

Also, IMO, the property labels are retarded, it should be High, Mid, Low and Overhead, special mid only lead to confusions.
I guess Tekken players have been confused for the last decade then... >_>
 
I guess Tekken players have been confused for the last decade then... >_>
I'm talking from a comprehensive point of view, If I use :fp and see High then use :r:fk and see high then its confusing as hell, 90% of players would not visit this forum or read about "Special Mid" which do lead to confusion, the game don't even mention this anywhere so unless you play Tekken it is a freaking retarded label.
 

sebiel

Noob
Sp.mid is in Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive, and Virtua Fighter as well. It's a pretty well-known term in 3d fighters...
 

oZii

Noob
I still think that is stupid that Kano's :r:fk is a special mid, it's a kick to the ankle, why on earth wouldn't it be a low, it hurt his game a lot because if it where a low he could have at least 1 string to mix up stuff from high and low, currently he has 0 mix ups, unlike for example Raiden who can mix high and lows from like 4 different strings.

Also, IMO, the property labels are retarded, it should be High, Mid, Low and Overhead, special mid only lead to confusions.
It's only seems retarded to someone that plays 2d fighter exclusively cause say in streetfighter and marvel and most 2D fighting games most characters have 1 maybe 2 moves that will hit you as a overhead that is is your crouch blocking. Tekken and Virtua Fighter on the other hand characters can have 10+ moves that will hit you if your crouch blocking.
 
It's only seems retarded to someone that plays 2d fighter exclusively cause say in streetfighter and marvel and most 2D fighting games most characters have 1 maybe 2 moves that will hit you as a overhead that is is your crouch blocking. Tekken and Virtua Fighter on the other hand characters can have 10+ moves that will hit you if your crouch blocking.
I understand having 10 mids and what not if you actually have a robust tool set, but I would rater have 1 overhead, 1 string that hit high, 1 that hit crouching block and 1 string capable of hit low to mix things up that 10+ useless mids and not a single way to start a combo from a low, specially in a 2d fighting game.
 
I'm not sure, but I think that there might not be character-specific stuff going on in terms of high vs sp.mid attacks. One weird thing I found was that there is a tiny window of spacing where Human Cyrax's standing 1 will get blocked by a crouching Human Sektor.

That leads me to believe that there might not be "real" highs and sp.mids in this game, and rather it's just a matter of hitboxes-- which would make some highs character-specific. Has anyone noticed any highs that are duckable by some characters and not by others?
I believe this is exactly correct, and I've tested this somewhat. Sheeva's f+2, by the definition here, is a special mid, it says "high" but will get blocked when crouching, but only by a few characters, on most other characters it whiffs completely. I tested this on Kung Lao, and Sub Zero, and it just whiffed. But it has really weird properties on Stryker and Noob. If Stryker is crouching and NOT blocking he gets hit by it 100%, indicating that it's a "special mid" but if he crouch blocks it seems to hit him about 25% of the time. On Noob, he only seems to get hit by it about 50% of the time when crouching, and only about 20% to 25% when crouch blocking. On Noob also I've found that it almost always whiffs when he's in the corner, whether he's blocking or not, but still hits about 10% of the time. I've also found that the move tends to whiff more at close range. At first I thought this could be stance specific whether it hit or missed, since Sheeva changes stance while performing the move, but after testing it further, I've come to the conclusion that's it's actually just dependent upon where the character models literally are. i.e. character's "neutral" movement when just "standing still" will sometimes cause them to get hit by moves that would normally whiff, this is also true of standing characters, they may get hit at a more extreme range if they "lean" at any point during their neutral stance. Of course a human opponent will almost always be moving or blocking or attacking so this is probably not terribly useful.

Another weird character specific thing that works almost to the exact opposite of what I've found above is that Sheeva's neutral 2 will hit Stryker when he's crouch blocking 100%, but whiff 100% when he's just crouching, now this would appear to support something I read elsewhere on these forums which was that crouch blocking will make your hitbox larger than just crouching, and that would appear true in the example above, and it certainly is with projectiles, a lot of projectiles can be ducked, but if crouch blocking will get blocked. But I've found direct evidence above with Noob/Stryker and Sheeva's f+2 that some moves actually work the opposite way. What it really looks like is that you get hit when attacks strike your character model, and some people are "taller" when crouch blocking and some are "shorter" or that the "crouch blocking = taller hitboxes" was supposed to be universally true, but not 100% tested before the game was released.

What I've concluded is that "special mids" really don't exist in this game and it is just character specific, consequently it would appear that this game has hit detection much more similar to 3D fighters than 2D fighters which often use hitboxes much larger than the character sprite/model. This could be a pretty big adjustment for 2D players.
 
I believe this is exactly correct, and I've tested this somewhat. Sheeva's f+2, by the definition here, is a special mid, it says "high" but will get blocked when crouching, but only by a few characters, on most other characters it whiffs completely. I tested this on Kung Lao, and Sub Zero, and it just whiffed. But it has really weird properties on Stryker and Noob. If Stryker is crouching and NOT blocking he gets hit by it 100%, indicating that it's a "special mid" but if he crouch blocks it seems to hit him about 25% of the time. On Noob, he only seems to get hit by it about 50% of the time when crouching, and only about 20% to 25% when crouch blocking. On Noob also I've found that it almost always whiffs when he's in the corner, whether he's blocking or not, but still hits about 10% of the time. I've also found that the move tends to whiff more at close range. At first I thought this could be stance specific whether it hit or missed, since Sheeva changes stance while performing the move, but after testing it further, I've come to the conclusion that's it's actually just dependent upon where the character models literally are. i.e. character's "neutral" movement when just "standing still" will sometimes cause them to get hit by moves that would normally whiff, this is also true of standing characters, they may get hit at a more extreme range if they "lean" at any point during their neutral stance. Of course a human opponent will almost always be moving or blocking or attacking so this is probably not terribly useful.

Another weird character specific thing that works almost to the exact opposite of what I've found above is that Sheeva's neutral 2 will hit Stryker when he's crouch blocking 100%, but whiff 100% when he's just crouching, now this would appear to support something I read elsewhere on these forums which was that crouch blocking will make your hitbox larger than just crouching, and that would appear true in the example above, and it certainly is with projectiles, a lot of projectiles can be ducked, but if crouch blocking will get blocked. But I've found direct evidence above with Noob/Stryker and Sheeva's f+2 that some moves actually work the opposite way. What it really looks like is that you get hit when attacks strike your character model, and some people are "taller" when crouch blocking and some are "shorter" or that the "crouch blocking = taller hitboxes" was supposed to be universally true, but not 100% tested before the game was released.

What I've concluded is that "special mids" really don't exist in this game and it is just character specific, consequently it would appear that this game has hit detection much more similar to 3D fighters than 2D fighters which often use hitboxes much larger than the character sprite/model. This could be a pretty big adjustment for 2D players.
The animation of the character also seam to move it's hitbox backward and forward so it's possible to hit a character with a move while they are moving their body forward but not while moving it backwards. I have seem some of this examples on youtube.
 
I believe this is exactly correct, and I've tested this somewhat. Sheeva's f+2, by the definition here, is a special mid, it says "high" but will get blocked when crouching, but only by a few characters, on most other characters it whiffs completely. I tested this on Kung Lao, and Sub Zero, and it just whiffed. But it has really weird properties on Stryker and Noob. If Stryker is crouching and NOT blocking he gets hit by it 100%, indicating that it's a "special mid" but if he crouch blocks it seems to hit him about 25% of the time. On Noob, he only seems to get hit by it about 50% of the time when crouching, and only about 20% to 25% when crouch blocking. On Noob also I've found that it almost always whiffs when he's in the corner, whether he's blocking or not, but still hits about 10% of the time. I've also found that the move tends to whiff more at close range. At first I thought this could be stance specific whether it hit or missed, since Sheeva changes stance while performing the move, but after testing it further, I've come to the conclusion that's it's actually just dependent upon where the character models literally are. i.e. character's "neutral" movement when just "standing still" will sometimes cause them to get hit by moves that would normally whiff, this is also true of standing characters, they may get hit at a more extreme range if they "lean" at any point during their neutral stance. Of course a human opponent will almost always be moving or blocking or attacking so this is probably not terribly useful.

Another weird character specific thing that works almost to the exact opposite of what I've found above is that Sheeva's neutral 2 will hit Stryker when he's crouch blocking 100%, but whiff 100% when he's just crouching, now this would appear to support something I read elsewhere on these forums which was that crouch blocking will make your hitbox larger than just crouching, and that would appear true in the example above, and it certainly is with projectiles, a lot of projectiles can be ducked, but if crouch blocking will get blocked. But I've found direct evidence above with Noob/Stryker and Sheeva's f+2 that some moves actually work the opposite way. What it really looks like is that you get hit when attacks strike your character model, and some people are "taller" when crouch blocking and some are "shorter" or that the "crouch blocking = taller hitboxes" was supposed to be universally true, but not 100% tested before the game was released.

What I've concluded is that "special mids" really don't exist in this game and it is just character specific, consequently it would appear that this game has hit detection much more similar to 3D fighters than 2D fighters which often use hitboxes much larger than the character sprite/model. This could be a pretty big adjustment for 2D players.
I could be completely wrong on this, but when I'm fighting Shao Kahn on ladder mode. With most characters, i can simply duck his green projectile spear, with kabal at full screen distance i was still getting hit with the spear while ducking (sometimes). It's weird.