What's new

How to not design air normals

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Just a quick example



Red: Hitbox
Green: Static Hurtbox (basically it remains fixed while the whole animation changes
Blue: Hurtbox

On left Johnny jump attack can be viewed as a priority normal, due the jump trajectory, doing attacks that stuff this move out of the air its nearly impossible to achieve, because his hurtbox is kinda chill behind his hitbox, on top of that jump attacks like this on NRS, not only have huge hitboxes, but they stay on this frame for long 13 to 18 frames and have 6 frames startups or so, while moves just like these exists, we will always face issues anti-airing people out of their herp-derp normals.

Surely NRS did a good change, to expand their hurtbox off their body for 1 frame before the active frame, while this change is good, it doesn't really solve the whole issue, the attack will still be dumb as long as they are lightning fast, huge active frames, and priority hitboxes.

On the right Cyrax with a proper hitbox, not too much expanded beyond his reach, and his hurtbox is expanded a few inches beyond his active frames, what this do is the following:
Cyrax can still have a 6f jump attack, so he can still hit people with it, but this allows players to anti-air cyrax on reaction if they have a fast normal to do so, even if his attack is fully extended the can win the trade only if an attack takes longer on reaction time to hit him out of the air, other wise, even at full extend normal, if the reaction was frame perfect, and the 5 active frames of a normal reaches his hurtbox first he will get anti-aired.

On top of that to balance it out, Cyrax jump attack active frames were deduced from 18 to 10f, so he can't jump press the attack while leaving the ground on a explosive read and expect to hit someone who didn't buy it.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Universal jump normals please.

Or if they have special ones give it to someone who needs it. With all the stupid ghost hitboxes air specials and derpy jks its impossible to properly antiair with some characters.

For the love of christ no instant ones.

Mk9 had jumping balanced way better, high risk high reward. With the only 'guessing game' being jk or jip (even then good antiairs dealt with both)

look at me ghandi hop now hold this j3 lol- scorpion, mkx
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Universal jump normals please.

Or if they have special ones give it to someone who needs it. With all the stupid ghost hitboxes air specials and derpy jks its impossible to properly antiair with some characters.

For the love of christ no instant ones.

Mk9 had jumping balanced way better, high risk high reward. With the only 'guessing game' being jk or jip (even then good antiairs dealt with both)

look at me ghandi hop now hold this j3 lol- scorpion, mkx
Dear lord the active frames on that move.
On top of that, dat flame aura tho.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Hope injustice 2 doesnt have stupid jumps.. I dont care if SF has it. Its brainless and boring to have characters will ambiguous jip mixups that jail into strings.
 

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
Universal jump normals please.

Or if they have special ones give it to someone who needs it. With all the stupid ghost hitboxes air specials and derpy jks its impossible to properly antiair with some characters.

For the love of christ no instant ones.

Mk9 had jumping balanced way better, high risk high reward. With the only 'guessing game' being jk or jip (even then good antiairs dealt with both)

look at me ghandi hop now hold this j3 lol- scorpion, mkx

You had also Deep jump in kicks, those were juicy :D

Fuck MKX jumps, its heaven for scrubs. Those jumpins that Quan, Raiden, Smoke, CSZ and the others its something that shouldnt really be there along with how safe that shit is.
 

Wigy

There it is...
You had also Deep jump in kicks, those were juicy :D

Fuck MKX jumps, its heaven for scrubs. Those jumpins that Quan, Raiden, Smoke, CSZ and the others its something that shouldnt really be there along with how safe that shit is.
I loved that shit with johnny.
 

exflyingbooty

This dream has a sad ending
also you really shouldn't be airborne frame 1 when you jump, not even AIRDASHERS have frame 1 jumps js
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Like isn't exactly what is shown in Johnny's example the same exact thing they did to Kung Jin jump 1?

LMFAO
 
I can't begin to express how important this topic is @Eddy Wang . The same thing for injustice also. For example, including weapons in jump in attacks can also be an issue as well, considering weapons do not have a hurt box, making it that much more difficult to anti-air.

If weapon jump-in attacks are included, they either need to have less active frames, slower startup (like only be heavy attacks) or be way easier to whiff punish on whiff (maybe more recovery frames?) to at least balance it out.

And just as the OP stated, all jump in attacks (that don't include a weapon) should have a hurt box around it. Otherwise the jump attack will out prioritize the anti-air attempt (unless the anti-air involves a weapon which doesn't have a hurt box).
 

Karma

Soul Caliber, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, and SF.
Jumping attacks are a problem???
 
Last edited:

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Aquaman was one of the like what 5 ? Characters who's D2 can actually do their job and anti air .

D2's in injustice were bad so idk why you made them a talking point.
On top of Aquaman's D2 being 7f it was done with a weapon, so it was a priority normal with a hurtbox hidden under his trident.
Jumping attacks are a problem???
They were much worse before this patch, even so they still are, because many of them you don't need to time it, you can jump with a 6f normal and when you're almost at the peak of the jump you press a button and it will go all the way down.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
I can't begin to express how important this topic is @Eddy Wang . The same thing for injustice also. For example, including weapons in jump in attacks can also be an issue as well, considering weapons do not have a hurt box, making it that much more difficult to anti-air.

If weapon jump-in attacks are included, they either need to have less active frames, slower startup (like only be heavy attacks) or be way easier to whiff punish on whiff (maybe more recovery frames?) to at least balance it out.

And just as the OP stated, all jump in attacks (that don't include a weapon) should have a hurt box around it. Otherwise the jump attack will out prioritize the anti-air attempt (unless the anti-air involves a weapon which doesn't have a hurt box).
Very true, SF may have invincibles DPs but normals are so stuffable and usually they don't come out off the ground with it and still hit someone crouching to avoid such tactics.

And before anyone says "SF is a different game" it is indeed, but they've been in the balancing world of fighting games ever since the 80's and these are issues they've faced way before.

Game can be different, but these are one of those rules that really shouldn't be changed.