How to deal with Zoners?

[esio]

Hey guys, I've just started to play with Harley and I'm struggling a lot against heavy zoners, aka Deadshot, Dr Fate, Aquaman, Cap Cold, Cyborg, even a defensive Superman and Joker gives me a hard time.

Any tips? I already tried MB dash, but it doesn't work as expected. How patient you need to be to beat those guys with Harley?

 

[REYTHEGREAT]

I dont play Harley but going from what ive seen online, could you zone back? She got the tools to outzone some of those characters. You could also use the hyenas.

 

[esio]

She is sort of a zoner, but against those I stated, she loses. The hyenas doesn't come out if you get hit and you're going to get hit by them cuz it's a pretty slow cast.

 

[ABACABB]

Idk what your doing wrong but as a darkseid zoning player good harley can give me problems. Her straight gun , air guns , trait , mb roll , cupcakes . You have many options .

 

[esio]

The only char that I have no difficulties is Darkseid

sorry, he's kinda easy to figure out

 

[MadPropz101]

Harley is a really good zoner.

 

[Second Saint]

I dont play Harley but going from what ive seen online, could you zone back? She got the tools to outzone some of those characters. You could also use the hyenas.

No she really doesn't. Harley's guns are 22f startup and do the lowest damage next to Green Arrows untraited arrows. Against a lot of zoners with fast projectiles, she can barely even return fire and she loses basically all trades. Superman and Supergirl can just sit in the top corner of the screen and do air lasers where cupcakes can't reach them all day, forcing you to corner them.

She's had this issue since I:GAU, losing the zoning war and not having sufficient rushdown tools to counterbalance that.

 

[TheNation265]

Like Second Saint said she can zone out some characters but gets zoned out by chars with superior zoning. I just try to use mb roll well and use the mobility interactables

 

[Amadeous313]

Try to get at least mid range and use air gun shots. Throw dog out on knockdown. If you are at the far screen test the zoning tools of the enemy in the lab there are different tricks.

Against darkseid you can get a dash in before a safe duck under laser. Toss a gunshot out in moderation. With superman a successful block on air laser gives you a free gunshot. Toss out a dog on knock down and dash in carefully.

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

Vs, a strong zoner, do yourself a favor and either learn a zoner yourself or tele character as backup. Harley always has and always will suck vs dedicated zoners.

 

[Second Saint]

Vs, a strong zoner, do yourself a favor and either learn a zoner yourself or tele character as backup. Harley always has and always will suck vs dedicated zoners.

I don't know about always will. This has been a known issue of hers for a whole game now, and this game should have a much, much longer patch cycle. Most likely, NRS will try to address this if as many of the matchups turn out as bad as I expect them too. I'm just hoping she doesn't become MK XL Mileena in the process.

 

[MKF30]

You can zone with Her but if you find yourself having difficulty, you can just keep practicing and get better with time or use someone else if people are using those characters and you're having a rough time. Sometimes you need to fight fire with fire, maybe use one or a few of those guys as your secondaries. She has the tools, guns and her trait hyenas are quite useful.

 

[Vslayer]

I use Batman against zoners and it works out well, have patience and use his slide to get in. Or you can always use supergirl and teleport MB into a combo then cross-up to get them into a corner. Unless they're really good at zoning and their strategy doesn't revolve around spamming D2 like it's the only button on their controller/stick you'll destroy them.

 

[hard_goodbye]

You need to check you're fullscreen game and know what options you can do in each MU. Exemple, if Dr.Fate throws a regular projectile and you block it, you can get a free gun in and he will eat it if he's spamming. From that if you're trading hits on block and him ducking right after he sends a projectile, you can "cheat" and on a blocked projectile, call trait ( because he is expecting gunshot he will be ducking) and use the dog to either MB roll to get into a favorable range or get 1-2 dash in.

That said, it's a more complicated game then that, since he can MB is projectile and leave himself +frames on block then you gotta respect the follow up. The original idea though is to get into a range, where you're air guns will hit and force him to respect that option, witch makes him walk backwards where he will eventually corner himself.

Once he is in the corne, you'll have to play footsies with him. Since the glyph special kinda outranges most of you're tools, you'll have to bait it or inch you're way in and punish the whiff.

Against zoner be patient and respect there use of ressource, If they MB something normally it means you have to respect the follow up, but that is also true for yourself. You can really set you're own zonning pressure too if you start midscreen doing cupcakes and calling trait, if he's walking backwards cause he's looking for the air guns, cupcakes into regular gun jails, witch again you can "cheat" by doing cupcakes into trait.

Easier said then done, since on all zonning trades you will be on the losing end but some though on how to navigate a MU.

 

[WhooFlungPoo]

Fate destroys me, i cant do anything. By far my hardest matchup

 

[CrimsonShadow]

If you watch Biohazard vs. REO in pools from Combo Breaker, that was a decent example of playing Harley vs. a zoning Superman.

 

[24K]

Fate seems to be the worst to play against.

@hard_goodbye air guns are useless if he doesn't jump. And I have never played a Fate who jumps when I am close. And I have rarely played a Fate who jumps at all.

At full screen he has everything. I haven't tried guns on a blocked projectile. But from the odd time I have been able to hit him there is maybe one follow up guns before he is getting the lead on projectiles, and I have to revert back to blocking. Can't trade with him all day. Because we lose. Cant get trait on anything other than a knock down and we don't get a knock down. Cup Cakes to slow. Up close he has the advantage, even with our far reaching normal's like B22 or B1 we can't reach far enough to stay out of range of glyph, and still get in. And at that range he can still keep zoning us.
I feel the only option there is a jump in and he can AA us like its nobodies business.

I have watched some online footage of Harley beating him. But I haven't seen any Harley against a good Fate. He zones to fast for us and he just has to sit and wait for us to die. The only Fates I see losing are the ones who are impatient and try land combos. A Fate who never comes in, never lets us in and never stops his fireball game will win every time.

There is really only so much gud you can git before it just becomes ridiculous. I chose Harley because I hate playing as a full on zoner. Its boring and lame. But after a bad online session against a fate player with a 138/30 win/loss ratio I realize I need to fit in or stop playing. Harley is mad fun and she steam rolls a lot of the cast. But she isn't tournament viable.

Things might be different if her MB guns were faster, had some sort of invincibility and most importantly gave a hard knock down. How on earth are they trading with Fates normal projectile and losing to it still.

Who in the game has the best anti zoning. Before I give in and pick a zoner, and ultimately then quit the game all together. I would like to try somebody who can just shut down zoning and make his way in. Zoning is to powerful in this game at the higher levels of play. We shouldn't have to work harder to get in than they have to work to keep us out.

I think Tekken dropping now was bad timing. That game is probably going to call me away from NRS until MK11. And I don't want that. But I hate having game developers dictate my character arch type.

 

[hard_goodbye]

@24K don't pressure yourself too much and cool off a bit before making any long term decisions.

Fighters make you rage, out of all the games I have played, fighters are by far the worst in making me emotionally unstable. They are on the other side of the coin, the most rewarding as well. Do you think that changing game, getting a clean slate will make any difference? You will probably run into similar frustrations, like a bad match-up or a game mechanic abuse, that will put you back exactly at you're initial emotion.

Now of you would like to evolve as a player, go beyond you're frustration and learn to gradually take more and more matches from fate players. I suggest you use TYM as a ressource. Post a set of 10 vs this player you are having problem against and we as a community can analyze and figure out the options, then not only you but the whole community is learning and that sounds a lot more rewarding then throwing 70bucks at something you might not even like.

 

[24K]

@24K don't pressure yourself too much and cool off a bit before making any long term decisions.

Fighters make you rage, out of all the games I have played, fighters are by far the worst in making me emotionally unstable. They are on the other side of the coin, the most rewarding as well. Do you think that changing game, getting a clean slate will make any difference? You will probably run into similar frustrations, like a bad match-up or a game mechanic abuse, that will put you back exactly at you're initial emotion.

Now of you would like to evolve as a player, go beyond you're frustration and learn to gradually take more and more matches from fate players. I suggest you use TYM as a ressource. Post a set of 10 vs this player you are having problem against and we as a community can analyze and figure out the options, then not only you but the whole community is learning and that sounds a lot more rewarding then throwing 70bucks at something you might not even like.

I don't particularly get irritated with fighting games. I have played many over the years and few get to me. I am quite happy to lose 100 games straight against the same player before getting my first win. If I am able to do stuff and be a part of the match and of course learn from it. And I will be playing Tekken anyway. As I play SFV, KI, MKX on the odd occasion it still pops up, and I will be playing MVC Infinite as well. It is just the design of this game that gets to me, it makes it to easy for a beginner player to pick up somebody like Fate and hold me out. I am not a great player by any means. But I have no problem going back and fourth with most players in other games.

I do need to grow more as a player in this game. Without a doubt. It just makes me salty as shit that anybody can pick up a zoner and with no effort, ruin my day. Then run away so I don't have a chance to practice the match up.

Does anybody have a list of characters we beat out or trade with.

And can somebody please get NRS to make Harleys MB Gunshot a hard knock down.

 

[Sasuga]

What I hate the most about people who play zoning characters and go all out with their zoning, is that you can never seem to run a long set against them. Doesn't matter if you win or lose, they will leave after they have 'made their point'.

I just cannot seem to really learn the Dr Fate and Deadshot matchups. Even though Deadshot never really seemed that much of a problem.

@OP: I really wish I could give you some pointers but grinding out the matchups and be patient is all I can give you. Oh, and don't forget that you can block by holding down; this will make you walk back and thereby give up space less. Harley has good walkingspeed so walking forward and ducking in time will get you in. And a lot of blocked or ducked projectiles give you time to dash in or shoot back. Then work on getting them in the corner.

 

[Sasuga]

Fate seems to be the worst to play against.

I agree completely.

I'd say Supergirl makes a good counterpick, because of her teleports. If they are fast enough, at least.