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How to Beat CETRION [Strings, Zoning, Specials and More]

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Hey man, I've always been a fan of your channel and it's very nice that you think about the people and do these videos.

It does make the following hard to write but:

Mainly the takeaway from the video is "JUST GUESS IT"


"wait for the ground pound" - >> really? how about that 20% chip damage
"make the right read" -> you mean just guess
"just guess" -> JUST GUESS!!!!
"just flawless block it" -> lol
"IT IS A BIT OF A STRONG GUESS"
"it's a straight up guess"

guess,guess,guess,guess,guess,guess,guess,guess,guess,guess,guess,guess

You do realize the entire video is you telling the opponent the SHITLOAD of amount of work and guess they have to do, just to make ONE step in and then guess all over again, while you literally do 2 moves without any effort in the world. And one SINGLE wrong guess and they're back to ground 0 full screen.

I'm sorry but I just have to be the biatch here and say GTFOOUTTAHEREWITHTHATBROKENASSCHARACTER.


The only awesome thing in the video was telling people about the gap in ground pound.
Don't forget, big fan of your work, keep it up :p ^__^
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Anyone who complains about zoning simply doesn't want to have any single mistake resetting their entire progress and to work their ass off making perfect reads just to get an opportunity (not guaranteed) to open the opponent up for damage, while the opponent just braindead spams 2 moves while walking back.
Allow me to fix that for you kind sir.
 

Vslayer

Kurses in moose
Moderator
Premium Supporter
Hey man, I've always been a fan of your channel and it's very nice that you think about the people and do these videos.

It does make the following hard to write but:

Mainly the takeaway from the video is "JUST GUESS IT"


"wait for the ground pound" - >> really? how about that 20% chip damage
"make the right read" -> you mean just guess
"just guess" -> JUST GUESS!!!!
"just flawless block it" -> lol
"IT IS A BIT OF A STRONG GUESS"
"it's a straight up guess"

guess,guess,guess,guess,guess,guess,guess,guess,guess,guess,guess,guess

You do realize the entire video is you telling the opponent the SHITLOAD of amount of work and guess they have to do, just to make ONE step in and then guess all over again, while you literally do 2 moves without any effort in the world. And one SINGLE wrong guess and they're back to ground 0 full screen.

I'm sorry but I just have to be the biatch here and say GTFOOUTTAHEREWITHTHATBROKENASSCHARACTER.


The only awesome thing in the video was telling people about the gap in ground pound.
Don't forget, big fan of your work, keep it up :p ^__^
I think your issue is you're playing the wrong Cage, bruh.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Allow me to fix that for you kind sir.
All I'm saying is every character forces guess. Number of hit, staggers, frame traps, overhead/low, shimmy setups. None of these are high execution and relatively easy to do. So I don't understand the complaints about zoning when Rushdown is the same exact thing.
Note: I'm a footsie/rushdown player.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Indeed rushdown is the exact same thing when the characters are balanced.

It's a matter of risk/reward.

Whenever you do a move in zoning or rushdown, there should be a reward of a right guess or reaction or knowledge or a risk of a wrong one where you get punished.

But in most cases and matchups, while rushdown retains this risk, zoning does not, as throwing out boulders and ground pounds have no risk to them in the majority of matchups except when the opponent already lost 20% chip to get in, and be forced to make 3-4 right guesses IN A ROW to get there.

During this entire process, the zoner had 0 risk, while the mario/frogger player, pardon, the opponent risks that at each wrong guess or read, they are back to square one.

This is what's not fair.
 

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
All I'm saying is every character forces guess. Number of hit, staggers, frame traps, overhead/low, shimmy setups. None of these are high execution and relatively easy to do. So I don't understand the complaints about zoning when Rushdown is the same exact thing.
Note: I'm a footsie/rushdown player.
It's the combination of solid fundamentals on top of top tier zoning. The reason why Cetrion is such a pain is because she plays footsies that compete with Cassie. Deadshot wasnt annoying because of wrist cannon, he was annoying because once you got in he has a plateau of staggers and some of the best mixups in the entire game.

As for your rushdown example. I'm fine with Liu Kang because his footsie game is pretty meh as opposed to others. I fucking dislike Jacqui because she plays both excellent footsies and locks you down like no one else in the entire game all the while dealing Baraka damage. Now I know Liu got a pretty decent fireball game as well, so that's obviously a factor but still - I dont like this jack-of-all-trades on steroids design they hand out (hi sonya)
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
It's the combination of solid fundamentals on top of top tier zoning. The reason why Cetrion is such a pain is because she plays footsies that compete with Cassie. Deadshot wasnt annoying because of wrist cannon, he was annoying because once you got in he has a plateau of staggers and some of the best mixups in the entire game.

As for your rushdown example. I'm fine with Liu Kang because his footsie game is pretty meh as opposed to others. I fucking dislike Jacqui because she plays both excellent footsies and locks you down like no one else in the entire game all the while dealing Baraka damage. Now I know Liu got a pretty decent fireball game as well, so that's obviously a factor but still - I dont like this jack-of-all-trades on steroids design they hand out (hi sonya)
I actually gravitate towards characters that do it all. Cassie, Erron, Sonya, Scorpion are good examples of I use Shang(Warlock), Cassie(Yaas Queen), Kotal(Ascension) mostly but Shang Tsung is an all around character definitely good at zoning but can be played anywhere he has staggers on F2/B1 and mix off F24/B112/B1D2/B3D4/B3U4/112/114/11 even though he is fuzzy blocked he has good stuff almost everywhere but there are pretty easy ways to counter him with several characters. He is more focused on spacing and using moves with proper wave dash to be at that magical non-punishable range so he is very much a footsie character the way I play him and he has great zoning and good tools up close to get them out. But I see what u r saying I just prefer the all around characters. Now Geras and Sonya are different cases ones that have clear advantage in certain areas shouldn't be jack of all trades master of some. Jacqui is terrifying up close and has great tools to get in but give her zoning and mid range footsie tools and she would be broke.

There are bad matchups but I feel its pretty balanced for the most part. I made it to Elder God with only Shang in KLS1 and plan on using Kotal this season. Let's see how far I can get with him. He definitely has a struggle with the top tiers and most of the cast but I feel he can compete its just harder.
 

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
There's no problem with all-round characters, but they should be balanced in every aspect. Sonya is a footsie beast, zoning beast aaaaaaand mixup beast - she even has solid staggers on top of everything else. HeeHaw does everything exceptionally well.

Jacqui DOES have mid range tools, b2 is arguably the longest button in neutral maybe aside from Errons f4. People have to respect Bionic Dash, and if the neutral duck it opens up for b2 as your get-in card.

Johnny is a good all-round design, nothing too powerful, good projectile, good footsies, decent buttons. Can switch up between a defensive playstyle and an offensive playstyle depending on the situations. He can apply pressure, but nothing is guaranteed either, he can zone in certain situations but not for entire matches. Kabal is much of the same although I feel Kabal does everything really really well to the point that he is low key broken while not as well as the top 5. Kitana is a good all-round character, she's just honest.

Sonya is just "oh shit I cant zone, good thing I have top tier footsies, top tier damage and top tier mixup potential to still win the matchup yay". All-round, versatile characters should have tools, not interchangable character archetypes that they can just throw out depending on the matchup.
 
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@M.D. yes you are the biatch here, but at least you know it.

By your own words and logic, if a character gets in and gets combod with oki after it you have lost the game. Since you will never guess right and just keep dying on knockdown.

The reality is zoning is a guess to most effectively keep you away. Every step forward is a bad guess for them. That's why the tried and true method of blocking properly is used most often.

Specific to what is being explained here. Learn to react to the bounce at full screen to jump the initial boulder. Jumping between ground slams itself is universally good to gain space. You are Johnny, and can literally kick her in the face from half screen if you see her arm go up.

Flawless block is really important to reduce any advantage that they are trying to gain. It's 40 plus frames for you to ready yourself to flawless.

It's not easy but if it were everyone including yourself could win without trying. If you cannot or will not do any of the above then in all honesty pick scorpion or raiden so you can break some of the traditional rules of spacing.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
@M.D. yes you are the biatch here, but at least you know it.
+snip
You don't seem to understand what I said. I understand the advice and the SHITLOAD ammount of WORK i should do.

And you tell me the RISK THE ZONER TAKES IS THAT I TAKE ONE STEP FORWARD IF I GUESS RIGHT?
That's the risk? LOL come on :))

My problem is not that I HAVE to work. My problem is that they DON'T have to WORK as hard to keep me out, as I must to get in.

Get it now?

Scorpion does not break anything in the Cetrion matchup. It finally teaches the Cetrion player the meaning of taking risks.
 
Play a zoner please it is risk. If you can't understand that then that is ok. Stay at your level of play and understanding.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Nice argument =))


It is risk.


I'll use that as a meme in my offline scene, if you don't mind.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
You know what's funny, I always try to have an objective argument based discussion about zoning, but it always ends up with the zoning supporters calling everyone else scrubs or some other variation (in your case it is "stay at your level of play and understanding"), and then the moderators closing the discussion.

But really, I haven't yet saw through a proper, old fashioned mature discussion based on clear mathematical and game example arguments, until it naturally solved itself out.

Apparently it's quite impossible.

And yes, I played DR.Fate in inj2, sinestro in inj1, and I also play Kabal in mk11. I can lame out someone and I can jumpback glaive all day with Kabal in certain matchups where they literally have no answer.

And I can see how broken it is and problematic, and I can understand that I just literally spam 2 moves while walking back and they can't do anything about it except crouch walking towards me (p.s. see my profile title <- ).

If the opponent doesn't have a tool to actually make the zoner take a risk after using the zoning moves, then it's bullshit and not balanced.

And sorry but no, taking one step forward and blocking + 2% chip again is NOT an advantage for the rushdowner or disadvantage for the zoner, LOL.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
As I said (I think it's the third time I said this), I lost when the opponent characters had tools that made my zoning options have RISKS.

You know, like Scorpion vs Cetrion.

When the other guy didn't have them, it was YOLO TOWN. A single wrong guess on crouch walking in, back to square 1 for him. A single right guess from me on his rushdown mixup, back to square 1 for him. When he guessed right I didn't care, just spammed some more because he could just take one step LOL.

Square 1 involving me spamming braindead crap and him getting in slowly with no answer, losing damage to chip and hoping for a right guess once(if) he gets in.

And in MK11, Cetrion does this to a shitload of characters. Only a handful can hold a candle to her SPAMMING, pardon, zoning.

Otherwise you'll only win when as a player you are WAY more skilled than the Cetrion user.

P.s. Skarlet and Jade are on the checklist as well, in case they were hoping they're off the radar.
 
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Ok so list all the characters you think cannot do anything then.

Because you are literally saying these are 10 0 match ups.
 

SOULWARRIOR 71K

XBL: SOULWARRIOR 71K PSN: SOULWARRIOR71K
So when you did play those zoners you have never lost? Because if you are taking zero risk and doing damage I see no possible way of you losing.
I think you may be purposely missing his point. He isn’t saying zoners are impossible to beat and there’s no way to ever get in. He is saying in some matchups it literally does come down to spamming from full screen while the opponent has to spend the entire match chasing and taking chip damage without a real expectation of being able to open the zoner up once in (in addition to the fact that if you get hit on the way in, you have to do it all over again). In short, lame play is lame.
 
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