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Question - Grandmaster How tired are you of not being able to combo females?

crosshair271

Sub-Xerox
That's the thing though, you set up the clone and get big damage off shatter combos so you make your opponent panic.
That's part of the mind game and strategy. Make them panic and anticipate their moves. Make a scenario where they feel safe to do something but instead it's a trap. The big space in my combos leads to a mind game of (OH I GOT SPACE I CAN JUMP OUT) when I'm already preparing for them to jump. Or if they don't look like they'll jump then make an observation, anticipate, commit. If they're standing do a low starter, if they're crouching do an overhead starter, if they jump out anti air, if you feel like confusing them more do a grab.
 

Goat-City

Banned
that's factually incorrect. Characters aren't balanced around male hurtboxes they're balanced around the whole cast.
Sub Zero was not balanced around female hurt boxes. He gets the damage and setup the variation needs vs males, not females. If he was designed around female hurt boxes then his combos would work on them and possibly not males, or he would be doing the same damage on males that he currently does on females.
 

xxFalcon Loverxx

Ignorant slaves, how quickly you forget.
It doesn't make the game any more fun or competitive, it's just an unnecessary annoyance that has no reason to be a feature in the game. You're using "depth" as a buzz word without telling me why that's a good thing in this case.
So it's hard for you to learn combos?

Ok, seems fair.Turn every female hitbox into ferra/torr hitbox you guys.Sub-Zero has it soooooo bad.Everyone has to deal with it, I'm sorry to break it to you that not only sub-zero has to deal with this stuff.
 
Sub Zero was not balanced around female hurt boxes. He gets the damage and setup the variation needs vs males, not females. If he was designed around female hurt boxes then his combos would work on them and possibly not males, or he would be doing the same damage on males that he currently does on females.
sub does fine vs females. He has a losing matchup vs like 2 of them, and both of them are going to get nerfed.
 

crosshair271

Sub-Xerox
Sub Zero was not balanced around female hurt boxes. He gets the damage and setup the variation needs vs males, not females. If he was designed around female hurt boxes then his combos would work on them and possibly not males, or he would be doing the same damage on males that he currently does on females.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse to death.

And as far as it being competitive, yes it is. Anyone who plays competitively will learn every nuance of the game and their character. They will push the limits, learn everything and master it. Do what it takes to win. That is what separates casuals from hardcore and what drives the competitive spirit. Not this "Oh boo hoo I can't just mash buttons whenever and get the strong combo." Yes it is a frustrating issue but instead of sitting and whining I kept testing until I found something to circumvent the issue and give me the results I wanted.
 

Goat-City

Banned
sub does fine vs females. He has a losing matchup vs like 2 of them, and both of them are going to get nerfed.
I'm not going to claim to know if the match ups are even or not, not even on stages that help them get out of the corner. All I'm saying is it's very annoying to finally get your opponent in the corner, get lucky enough to land the safe low or unsafe overhead without letting them escape the corner, and only do 25% damage for a safe clone setup. The shatter combos not leading to a meterless setup I could tolerate, but shatters are situational and come off 50/50s that there are many ways around. And that's on top of the fact that playing against them makes other things much harder like comboing off EX ice burst with f41 throw. Also, I think GM should ideally take a slight damage nerf, but it's looking like that's not going to happen.
 

Goat-City

Banned

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse to death.

And as far as it being competitive, yes it is. Anyone who plays competitively will learn every nuance of the game and their character. They will push the limits, learn everything and master it. Do what it takes to win. That is what separates casuals from hardcore and what drives the competitive spirit. Not this "Oh boo hoo I can't just mash buttons whenever and get the strong combo." Yes it is a frustrating issue but instead of sitting and whining I kept testing until I found something to circumvent the issue and give me the results I wanted.
If you agree that it's frustrating then there's nothing to argue about.
 
I'm not going to claim to know if the match ups are even or not, not even on stages that help them get out of the corner. All I'm saying is it's very annoying to finally get your opponent in the corner, get lucky enough to land the safe low or unsafe overhead without letting them escape the corner, and only do 25% damage for a safe clone setup. The shatter combos not leading to a meterless setup I could tolerate, but shatters are situational and come off 50/50s that there are many ways around. And that's on top of the fact that playing against them makes other things much harder like comboing off EX ice burst with f41 throw. Also, I think GM should ideally take a slight damage nerf, but it's looking like that's not going to happen.
If you don't know the matchup numbers how can you say sub isn't balanced vs females? If he goes 5/5-6/4 with every character in game including females he's pretty well balanced.
 

Goat-City

Banned
If you don't know the matchup numbers how can you say sub isn't balanced vs females? If he goes 5/5-6/4 with every character in game including females he's pretty well balanced.
I never said he wasn't or was, I'm saying it's an annoying problem that makes no sense to exist. Even if he goes even with them despite this, it's still an annoying fact. From my experience it seems way too luck based and the guessing is in the female's favor, regardless of whether it's 5-5 or not. The only argument I've made is that it annoys me and makes no sense. How anyone can argue with that so extensively is beyond me.
 
I never said he wasn't or was, I'm saying it's an annoying problem that makes no sense to exist. Even if he goes even with them despite this it's still an annoying fact. From my experience it seems way too luck based and the guessing is in the female's favor, regardless of whether it's 5-5 or not. The only argument I've made is that it annoys me and makes no sense. How anyone can argue with that so extensively is beyond me.
You literally just said he wasn't balanced around female hurtboxes and that he NEEDS the male hurtbox dmg/combos. Then you proceed to admit he can have 5/5 matchups with females.

I really hate to break it to you but you might not know how fighting games work. If the matchup is 5/5( or even 5.5/4.5) it's as well balanced as it's going to get.
 

crosshair271

Sub-Xerox
If you agree that it's frustrating then there's nothing to argue about.
And you totally skipped over what I said prior. It is an existing frustrating issue that I practiced and worked around. Now it is not as troublesome to me. If you put some effort into learning it would be the same to you. I had to accept and take this course of action due to the fact that NRS does not listen very well to feedback to make a better game.
 

Goat-City

Banned
You literally just said he wasn't balanced around female hurtboxes and that he NEEDS the male hurtbox dmg/combos. Then you proceed to admit he can have 5/5 matchups with females.

I really hate to break it to you but you might not know how fighting games work. If the matchup is 5/5( or even 5.5/4.5) it's as well balanced as it's going to get.
Quote me where I said he needs male hurtbox combos on females. It would be much less annoying that way and possibly more fair but I can't make that argument confidentally. He wasn't balanced around female hurt boxes, he was intended to do the damage he does on males and it just so happens that he cant do it on females, not the other way around is what I'm saying. Sub should not do as much damage as he does but definitely more than he does on females.
 

Goat-City

Banned
Notice how you said needs?
Ok I misspoke there. I've said several times times Sub Zero doesn't need as much damage into setups as he gets on males but he does need more than he gets on females. Whether or not the female characters are good enough to make it a 6-4 with their hurt boxes I'm not sure, but if he had the same combos vs male characters then he would be underpowered without a doubt. Currently he might lose to more females 6-4, but all I know for sure is that it's very annoying to not be able to combo them normally.
 

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Why do ppl ignore the fact that b33xxiceball connects on females , I think it's a fair trade off to have better midscreen mix up for loss of some of your corner game , off any jump in your can ji2 b2 or jip1 b33xxiceball. Can't do that on males without burning meter