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Question - Grandmaster How tired are you of not being able to combo females?

MrProfDrPepper

NRS, Guilty Gear, and KI, the holy trinity
For the record I think the MU is potentialy on his favor but she can hold her own it's more about Sub-Zero wrecking almost everyone in the corner.
Well that is kind of all he has, without it he would suck, he has really good corner game and mediocre at best midscreen game except for against a select few characters where the match up is in subs favor to an extreme degree
 
Because it makes no sense. It's a completely unnecessary, nonsensical problem. If there was a reason why it had to exist then I'd understand, but there isn't.
Ok then let's normalize hitboxes and gravity. I vote every character has Cassie's hitbox and gravity.

Theres no "reason" anything "has" to be anyway that it is in any fighting game. The different characters look and act different because a wide variety of tools/skill sets/cosmetics add depth to the game. A variety of hurtboxes adds depth by making characters play differently in matchups, same way a variety of normals and specials make matchups play different.
 

Goat-City

Banned
Ok then let's normalize hitboxes and gravity. I vote every character has Cassie's hitbox and gravity.

Theres no "reason" anything "has" to be anyway that it is in any fighting game. The different characters look and act different because a wide variety of tools/skill sets/cosmetics add depth to the game. A variety of hurtboxes adds depth by making characters play differently in matchups, same way a variety of normals and specials make matchups play different.
It doesn't make the game any more fun or competitive, it's just an unnecessary annoyance that has no reason to be a feature in the game. You're using "depth" as a buzz word without telling me why that's a good thing in this case.
 
It doesn't make the game any more fun or competitive, it's just an unnecessary annoyance that has no reason to be a feature in the game. You're using "depth" as a buzz word without telling me why that's a good thing in this case.
So you'd be ok with every character having female hurtboxes? Because normalizing them in anyway be it making them all male or female would be just as arbitrary as keeping them different.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
IMO Tom lost most games to Sonic because he lost over 10% on Cassie. He had her cornered multiple times but he doesn't get a free clone setup without spending a bar on a combo that is most likely to drop or unless he does his b12/b33,11, bnb. Female characters are bad matchups for Subby because he loses his corner game. Now while you all can praise that, just think if something like Kitana's fans phased through males, or tick throws with kotal didn't work on females. This takes away the ability to play the character and it is obnoxious. Yes I am aware he is not the only one with this problem, so every character with this problem. It is so stupid to be asked "why is this a badass matchup?" and all you can say is "She has a vagina."
 
IMO Tom lost most games to Sonic because he lost over 10% on Cassie. He had her cornered multiple times but he doesn't get a free clone unless he does his b12 bnb. Female characters are bad matchups for Subby because he loses his corner game. Now while you all can praise that, just think if sometime like Kitana's fans phased through males, or tick throws with kotal didn't work on females. This takes away the ability to play the character and it is obnoxious. Yes I am aware he is not the only one with this problem, so every character with this problem. It is so stupid to be asked "why is this a badass matchup?" and all you can say is "She has a vagina."
Tom lost because he dropped combos and made bad reads. Or in simple terms because sonic fox is a better player.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Tom lost because he dropped combos and made bad reads. Or in simple terms because sonic fox is a better player.
You are missing the point here, yes sonic is a great player; he is the best. But when Tom does corner combos, its not because he "dropped" them, its that he has to pray that they work. Literally Sub vs. female characters (no matter how many combos have been found) are 100% impractical. I can do the same combo over and the over, the exact same way, and it will decide when it will freeze her. NO CHARACTER should have that. And before you say " practice the new shatter bnbs" the clone is placed way to far back so b2 will whiff, and if b2 whiffs, that is a free whiff punish. So there is no mixup and there is "wiggle room" for the opponent to escape. He has to spend a bar, and even so, that iceball usually whiffs.
 
Clone is placed too far back on the low options, not guaranteed and the opponent can easily escape.
It's not guaranteed? Why. That'd mean you'd have to commit to something and weigh risk/reward. Wouldn't want to have to do that in fighting games.

And I understand tom lowered his dmg to get a better setup. But he still dropped tons of combos and three rounds with bad decisions.
 

Infinite

Noob
I don't really mind hitbox specific combos as long as there aren't too many. One for males one for females and one for big/monster types would be alright considering the size of the roster. Given that they are balanced in consideration.

Stance specific combos, defense buffs that change gravity or hitbox properties would probably be pretty annoying though.
 

Goat-City

Banned
So you'd be ok with every character having female hurtboxes? Because normalizing them in anyway be it making them all male or female would be just as arbitrary as keeping them different.
No because that makes simple combos more difficult for everyone and it would not be as balanced as giving females male hurtboxes because they are the minority and some characters suffer from their hitboxes more than others.
 

tafka Djinn

One for three off the roof
Clone is placed too far back on the low options, not guaranteed and the opponent can easily escape.
This is true, but it was just a proof of concept video he'd done. I believe the clone can be placed much more optimally while still having those combos, but there's a reason my mood chooser is set to DF. It's all up to actual Subzy players if you want to test that, I'm just the nosy neighbor.
 

crosshair271

Sub-Xerox
Clone is placed too far back on the low options, not guaranteed and the opponent can easily escape.
The Klone can be placed closer if you want to but then again it leads to a mind game and another trait of a good player. SCOPE OUT THE ESCAPE. Can't tell you how many times I've seen Brady stand still like deer in headlights instead of smashing the opponent into the Klone.
 

Amplified$hotz

Done with MK1. Stop supporting a scam company
A 9 for me. I hate it but it's really my stubbornness to go learn a new combo. Mileena is a nightmare for me.
 
No because that makes simple combos more difficult for everyone and it would not be as balanced as giving females male hurtboxes because they are the minority and some characters suffer from their hitboxes more than others.
Thats not an argument. Either way it's arbitrary. If MK was released and every character had a female hurtbox people would just lab the matchups and come up with tech, but because you have some matchups that are more "ideal" you think other characters should be changed to make your life easier. thats not how this works.
 

Goat-City

Banned
Thats not an argument. Either way it's arbitrary. If MK was released and every character had a female hurtbox people would just lab the matchups and come up with tech, but because you have some matchups that are more "ideal" you think other characters should be changed to make your life easier. thats not how this works.
That's exactly what should happen. Every character is balanced around the combos and conversions they can get off male hurtboxes, so female characters have a built in advantage over others for no reason. For many characters it's not a big deal, but some it forces them to sacrifice a lot, and that's annoying, unfair, and nonsensical, so it should ideally be fixed. That factually is an argument.
 
That's exactly what should happen. Every character is balanced around the combos and conversions they can get off male hurtboxes, so female characters have a built in advantage over others for no reason. For many characters it's not a big deal, but some it forces them to sacrifice a lot, and that's annoying, unfair, and nonsensical, so it should ideally be fixed. That factually is an argument.
that's factually incorrect. Characters aren't balanced around male hurtboxes they're balanced around the whole cast.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
The Klone can be placed closer if you want to but then again it leads to a mind game and another trait of a good player. SCOPE OUT THE ESCAPE. Can't tell you how many times I've seen Brady stand still like deer in headlights instead of smashing the opponent into the Klone.
If its too close female character's gravity makes it so the low option won't allow shatter combos. B2 would knock the opponent into the clone at random and that leads to guessing when that will happen and converting it with a freestyle combo that will not even reach the 30%
 

Cameronwinss

Hay gurl hay
yeah yeah you're a mileena player butthurt ur character is low-tier. how about u stop hijacking this thread with ur whining.

To address OP, I really hate the fact that you have to do a different combo just to combo a female character, I have all this muscle memory of the regular shatter combos that work on the male characters.
Why do you hate everything. Dildos aren't meant to be permanently in an ass.


Kappa
 

crosshair271

Sub-Xerox
If its too close female character's gravity makes it so the low option won't allow shatter combos. B2 would knock the opponent into the clone at random and that leads to guessing when that will happen and converting it with a freestyle combo that will not even reach the 30%
You don't have to go for a shatter. I've done anti air combos and threw my opponent into the Klone then followed up with either the F12 or 123xxSlide ender and both make or break the 30% marker. If you test and train for scenarios it no longer becomes random or freestyle.

Also I've noticed something similar to YIN-YANG stance inconsistencies. The game has 3 different BLOCK animations and they are all used randomly when blocking the same attack. Left arm, Right arm, Both arms. When I tested a D3 with the Klone as close to the opponent as possible sometimes the Klone would be BLOCK broken. I couldn't figure out why it was happening randomly then I noticed the 3 different BLOCK animations. This may have led to the inconsistent B12xxEXKlone on BLOCK randomly working among other things not Sub related. Also remember Tanya's tonfa toss randomly hitting Sub when Brady was testing? I would put good money on that happening due to the different BLOCK animations altering collision boxes. Honestly a random stupid inconsistency like this I feel shouldn't exist but I guess live and learn.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
You don't have to go for a shatter. I've done anti air combos and threw my opponent into the Klone then followed up with either the F12 or 123xxSlide ender and both make or break the 30% marker. If you test and train for scenarios it no longer becomes random or freestyle.

Also I've noticed something similar to YIN-YANG stance inconsistencies. The game has 3 different BLOCK animations and they are all used randomly when blocking the same attack. Left arm, Right arm, Both arms. When I tested a D3 with the Klone as close to the opponent as possible sometimes the Klone would be BLOCK broken. I couldn't figure out why it was happening randomly then I noticed the 3 different BLOCK animations. This may have led to the inconsistent B12xxEXKlone on BLOCK randomly working among other things not Sub related. Also remember Tanya's tonfa toss randomly hitting Sub when Brady was testing? I would put good money on that happening due to the different BLOCK animations altering collision boxes. Honestly a random stupid inconsistency like this I feel shouldn't exist but I guess live and learn.
That's the thing though, you set up the clone and get big damage off shatter combos so you make your opponent panic. That aside, that block annimation thing is a crazy discovery. I do too agree that the ex tonfa hits because the annimation..