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Question How safe is Batman?

Boodendorf

Bird woman!
EDIT: Managed to answer my own questions after experimenting for a while in training, so if somebody could close/delete this thread.

I wasn't sure if I should have posted this in the matchup discussion or something, but since it might help everybody on the forums...

So I've been having trouble mostly against Batman. There's that one player I have a REALLY tough time to beat, he's really damn good with him and I just don't know what to do. I play Hawkgirl btw.
I already know his trait is unpunishable and makes everything he does safe so I won't ask about it.

How safe is 123? Is this even punishable?
What about his j2? Usually the batman will always do 123 j2 even when I'm blocking, it crosses me up and he's ready for another 123/b23/b113... I didn't try to dash under yet because of how ridiculous the hitbox is on that move. It seems to completely avoid my amazing d2 too.
Is his grappling hook move punishable on block? Heck even when I duck it I can't manage to punish it for the life of me.
What about MB batarang? Seems + on block.
Should I even pushblock when I know Batman can just take me out of the air no matter where he is on screen thanks to his trait?

I might have forgotten some, this is all I can think of right now. Help please ;_;.
 

coolwhip

Noob
The answer to all your questions is present in the in-game frame data. Off of the top of my head, Batman's 123 is -5 I believe. Grappling hook is definitely punishable pointblank. Otherwise, it depends on the distance. Batman's MB batarang is something like +38 on block. Usually, I'll use it after his 112 to extend my pressure.

Pushblocking almost always has its uses. Don't get too liberal with it but there are definitely times when you should.

EDIT: I corrected some of the above numbers after checking.
 

coolwhip

Noob
By the way, it's important to note that pushblock also makes his bats disappear, which is huge. So if Batman is pressuring you with his bats out, that's a pretty good option.
 

Doctor

Noob
Yeah, Batman's strings are mostly safe on block. The 'tricky bat' string (122) is the only one I can think of that is overly punishable. Batman's weakness lies in his reliance on being close. Most characters can out-do his footsies at neutral mid range and all his specials are punishable if you're close enough (except MB Batarang), so, like other people said: pushblocking and being ready with anti-air or block cross-ups are skills you need to master to beat good Batman players, since his trait will almost always give him a free jump-in.
 
The answer to all your questions is present in the in-game frame data. Off of the top of my head, Batman's 123 is -5 I believe. Grappling hook is definitely punishable pointblank. Otherwise, it depends on the distance. Batman's MB batarang is something like +38 on block. Usually, I'll use it after his 112 to extend my pressure.

Pushblocking almost always has its uses. Don't get too liberal with it but there are definitely times when you should.

EDIT: I corrected some of the above numbers after checking.
isn't there speculation the in game frame dat is wrong?
 

Doctor

Noob
The frame data for the most part on single-hitting moves is correct. It's when multiple hits come in that the frame data goes awry.
 

coolwhip

Noob
isn't there speculation the in game frame dat is wrong?
Only for moves that have multiple hits (ie Deathstroke's guns). Outside of that, the frame data is for the most part, correct. That doesn't mean it's not worth testing everything in practice, as people should do that anyway in order to work on their punishes, etc...
 
Only for moves that have multiple hits (ie Deathstroke's guns). Outside of that, the frame data is for the most part, correct. That doesn't mean it's not worth testing everything in practice, as people should do that anyway in order to work on their punishes, etc...
got ya... thanx for clearing that up for me