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How many think Kotal needs small or large buffs to compete in tournament?

What does Kotal need if anything?

  • Small buffs (just a few things)

  • Rework (many changes)

  • Nothing he is completely fine!


Results are only viewable after voting.

LawAbidingCitizen

On Probation Till Further Notice
I'm very curious what others think about Kotal. I personally think he has potential but doesn't have the best tool kit compared to A tier and up and nearly every top players tier list has him placed on bottom tier with D'Vorah for obvious reasons.
If it's not obvious I'll explain on some of it.
This games meta is highly focused on good mids and D2 Krushing blows. With his mids being very slow compared to high tiers and even mid tier and even his highs being on the slow side he struggles in many situations especially close up and far away.

His fast highs for up close 1 and 2 are 8f but wiff after pushback, poke and even after using his get in tools which is shit considering all of his good tools put him up close when blocked and crouch block eliminates his pushback.
His mix-ups are very gimicky and easily punished having gaps and one is tied to a move that should only be used to wiff punish B22 which also has gaps.
So he has no real mix like many in the roster do and even if you found that viable he doesn't combo from them.
His only combo comes from a non base move Kahn-cut that is very unsafe and slow.
His zoning is Sub par having a disk that is 29f startup and long recovery but he does have a 22% Krushing Blow if opponent gets hit with thier projectiles in air. But once it's gone there is no threat and his counter zoning tool sunlight is very unsafe everywhere.
His sword pound is fully punishable after strings on block and is very reactable from seeing animation. Making it almost useless and another tool he should use sparingly, add it to the list.
He doesn't have plus on block or many ways to open except wiff punishing. Compare that to the A tier and up and you will see it's clear, they have multiple fast highs and mids(9f mids), true 50/50s usually into combo, decent zoning/counter zoning, rushdown, close up, mid range and block pressure while he only has range and almost all of them have that as well.
His damage is on the low end and is only made decent when using Command Grab to end combos, which gives a damage buff but destorys his positions by switching sides. The sun choke is a no optional side switch metered or meterless and gives up position and corner carry forcing players to use Kahn-cut to end and give up much needed damage and buff. His party buff doesn't give him advantage and only stops one hit, will also give damage buff unless he gets hit and it goes away. His Krushing blows have decent requirements but do almost zero damage compared to his basic combos and his best one is incredibly risky for not much reward F122 since there is no real way to condition the overhead other than wiff and number of hits.
His is a bottom tier tool kit in every way.

That is just my opinion but I'd like to hear what others think? Do you think he has the tools to deal with high tier and win tournaments?

Does he need small adjustments and if so what?
Does he need large rework and if so what?
Is he fine and can make consistent top 8s easy?
 
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Stuck

Mid Tier Whore. 1 combo and a dream.
Faster mid OR faster zoning tool. He suffers too much up close and far away in his current state. I’d like to see that first.
 

Blade4693

Praise The Sun!
Not a high level player so my opinion means little but I think he could use a little tweaking. I scratch my head when other characters are hitting like 40% off a single bar yet big boi Kotal can't do that unless he has mad buff stacks, spends meter and/or KB.

I don't want him knee jerked buffed into a super strong character though, I like that my character isn't very popular atm lol

Same applies for the characters people are calling really strong too though, even though I don't play them I don't want to see Sonya knee jerked nerfed into being unplayable or something. That's not kool.
 
I don’t play him or know too much about him, but I think the palm launcher move should be universal. Idk how totemic is supposed to get any damage.
 

Toc85

Noob
"Small buff" vote here. He definately needs something.
One thing I wonder is how to buff it:
  1. do we want more reliable rush tools (string recovery? fairly safe 50/50 leading to combo?)
  2. extended poke/zone potential? (safer long range poke?)
  3. bigger damage output potential?
From my character design POV i would like to see 3rd possibility. "Oh, I can't get you easily, but when I eventually will, I'm gonna bite your head off"

Personally, I would like to see his cat pounce buffed - it is visually appealing but overall big meh... Maybe crushing blow for counter hit, leading to combo extender?
 

Toc85

Noob
....
-Cat need to have amplified version
....
AFAIK, cat actually DOES have amplified version. You upgrade it at the start, it gives invincibility frames against projectiles.

Also - I would really like to see Kotal Cut in the tourney version. Without it his combo potential is blant.
 
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LawAbidingCitizen

On Probation Till Further Notice
AFAIK, cat actually DOES have amplified version. You upgrade it at the start, it gives invincibility frames against projectiles.

Also - I would really like to see Kotal Cut in the tourney version. Without it his combo potential is blant.
Kahn-Cut is in his tournament variation called Ascension? Are you talking about Totemic?
I think they should make it a base move and remove God Ray from tournament variations and add a totem in it's place.

Here are my requests that I don't think will make him too strong but improve his overall game.

  1. Allow control of side after Command Grab.
  2. Kahn-Cut base move.
  3. Remove God Ray from tournament vars.
  4. Make Sunlight less recovery. Reduce by 10-15 frames.
  5. Make Sword Pound start up faster and have slightly less recovery.
  6. F1 mid
  7. Fix (1)22 and (2)2 hitbox so it doesn't wiff after pushback from poke or Normals on block.
  8. Parry buff doesn't go away on hit.
Then I think he would be able to compete.
 

xSkeletonSmasherx69

NOBODY CAN TRULY DEFEAT ME
Honestly I wonder what direction they will go when buffing characters. I don't think they will change their variations or allow us to change the direction of the command grab. That should be a high priority change. I think those moves are set in stone though. I hope I am wrong.

  • Allow Kotal to amplify the saw cut move to be a combo extender. When he slams them backwards at least make them bounce to follow up. That would make the other variation viable.
  • After kotal cut allow him to jump in punch them in the air. That could be good for giving him a little more damage.
  • Losing sun ray for the one that goes on top of you would be great in ascension.
  • Making b22 not punishable on block would be great.
  • Making f1 a mid would be amazing.
  • In Ascension giving him another reason to use meter except for enhanced command grab would be preferred, but not necessary. You still use meter with the getup attacks.
  • Maybe make the second hit of b22 hit if the first hit does. I hate it when the second hit doesn't connect because they are out of range.
  • They need to do something with his parry it is really useless. Take the damage amplify away if you must and do something else. Make it like Kratos in mk9 or something. Make a sun ray come down on top of him if he parrys. Give him plus frames. Give him anything. Ending a few strings with parry is good.
  • In sunlight make his strings a few frames faster. Depending on the move. That would add an interesting aspect to his game.
  • An idea that would never happen: In sunlight make his sword strings unblockable.
 

GLoRToR

If you are not having fun doing something, stop it
I think he does need something but much like with Jade, we can only guess in the current meta.
Whatever NRS has in mind is another deal and while I support Kotal (and everyone) being viable, I think the characters who are doing too well take priority. They need their adjustments towards how the game should be working / was promised to work, before we need to worry about Kotal, Jade or anyone else.
 

Dayvo

My english it's not good
I find Kotal's D2 terrible, compared to Kano. It has almost non existant horizontal reach.

That would be the first change I would do, just a bit more horizontal reach.
The other ones:
-F1 as a mid
-Cat low profiles any high projectile

Maybe with just the D2 fix and one of the above suggested changes would be enough
 

DragonofDadashov24

Let’s see whose fire burns hotter
I find Kotal's D2 terrible, compared to Kano. It has almost non existant horizontal reach.

That would be the first change I would do, just a bit more horizontal reach.
The other ones:
-F1 as a mid
-Cat low profiles any high projectile

Maybe with just the D2 fix and one of the above suggested changes would be enough
Same shit with Johnny (RIP) and Cassie, fuck, every time I d2 I have a feeling they are gonna knock themselves out with how close that fist flies to their chin
 
All above are good things but i would like to add 2 more .
1. Why is his command grab buff time gated ? it will go back to 0 if u deal or take KB/FB. If u have to start all over aggain why would it be even time gated at all ?Reduce dmg buff if needed but make it eather last longer (tier 1 and 2 ) or just make it last till KB/FB. Currently if u get tier 1 buff and dont get a second combo il like 5-6s ul have to start all over aggain.
2.For totems they could add a amp effect which summons all 3 or even 2 totems if they dont want to reduce the recovery .
 

LawAbidingCitizen

On Probation Till Further Notice
All above are good things but i would like to add 2 more .
1. Why is his command grab buff time gated ? it will go back to 0 if u deal or take KB/FB. If u have to start all over aggain why would it be even time gated at all ?Reduce dmg buff if needed but make it eather last longer (tier 1 and 2 ) or just make it last till KB/FB. Currently if u get tier 1 buff and dont get a second combo il like 5-6s ul have to start all over aggain.
2.For totems they could add a amp effect which summons all 3 or even 2 totems if they dont want to reduce the recovery .
The command grab is 9 seconds. I'd love for it to be increased but what I'd love more is it to stack time on if another CG is landed in that time frame making it like 11-14 seconds if you make tier 2 buff.
The Parry buff goes away on hit so it kinda sucks and only lasts 6 seconds.
All if his buffs go away on KB and I think everyones buffs do so do other special moves including sunlight.
 

younghou

Noob
i think kotal need a lot of fix and buffs because some of his moves are porly designed.

fix:
-fix the issue when his unblockable into amplified overhead combo miss at max range.
-fix the issue when his FB second hit miss after the first hit connect as a anti air or juggles.
-you can't break away his FB first hit anymore.
-you can't break away into punish kotal main BnB anymore (that is terrible)

buff:
-f1 is a mid
-decrease his command grab knockdown distance (now you can dash>command grab)
-amplifed command grab no longer switch side.
- parry start up is 7 reduce the recovery in 10 frames.
-reduce the sun light recovery in 10 frames.
 

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Royal Contributor
He needs a lot of things but he isn't gonna get em. So lets go small and reasonable.

  • Kahn-cut should be a base move, period. Helps both variations.
  • B22 hitbox needs to be fixed so 2nd hit doesn't whiff occasionally. Also much less time between b223 2nd and final hit.
  • f34 special cancelable + f3 becomes at least 16f
  • God ray can be aimed in 3 directions instead of 2. Add close direction to the existing mid and far. Both versions of sunlight moves need to recover faster than they currently do. As it stands the base version of sunlight is basically better than its "improved" version.
  • Command grab tosses enemy forward, not backwards. The command grab is already much shorter range than other comparable moves(Like Geras) and doesn't do damage out of line with other command grabs. Yes you get the buff but its short lived. If you can stack multiple buffs, GOOD! You should be scared of the command grab, as it stands its not scary at all. It should be a cornerstone of the variation, and it just straight up isn't.
  • Parry startup must be much, much faster, its basically a dead move.
  • Stand 4 should do something, anything. It sucks. Make it faster or mid or special cancelable.
Could be a lot more but I will leave it at that.
 
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DoctorSexual

XBL: DoctorSexual PSN: Osh-Tek
Honestly Kotal is fine for the most part and this is from someone who thought he was unusably broken in my first impression. He just requires a higher skill level to use. Fact is that you cannot whiff against Kotal. Period. Any range. Otherwise you're eating 30-40% for free every time. His F2 is basically a half screen projectile that does 38% on any whiff or unsafe move from your opponent. His F4 means that your opponent cant press buttons on wakeup from any range other than long or full screen.

He's not as well rounded as Sub or Scorpion but he definitely has some unique tools.

Honestly I think the first fix needs to be improving his Krushing blows. He really only has one reliable way to get one out at this point. (F122)

His uppercut KB has one of the worst hitboxes for a D2 in the game
His grab KB requirement is ridiculous and will almost never be consistently usable against high level competition.
His projectile KB is ok against scrubs I suppose but it still requires a full screen punish (lol). Which means yet again, thats gonna be a tough ask to consistently get when you need it against high level competition.

KBs are pretty damn vital right now in the current meta of this game and for the most part whereas most other characters can pick from 3-4 on command per match Kotal has the 1.
 
And what does it do?

It doesnt appear in the moveset, you have to activate it super early, and besides a tiny amount of damage, what uses does it has?
Both ground and air cat lunge gives projectile invincibility when amplified. Its not on the 1f but maybe 6f-10f.
 
Honestly Kotal is fine for the most part and this is from someone who thought he was unusably broken in my first impression. He just requires a higher skill level to use. Fact is that you cannot whiff against Kotal. Period. Any range. Otherwise you're eating 30-40% for free every time. His F2 is basically a half screen projectile that does 38% on any whiff or unsafe move from your opponent. His F4 means that your opponent cant press buttons on wakeup from any range other than long or full screen.

He's not as well rounded as Sub or Scorpion but he definitely has some unique tools.

Honestly I think the first fix needs to be improving his Krushing blows. He really only has one reliable way to get one out at this point. (F122)

His uppercut KB has one of the worst hitboxes for a D2 in the game
His grab KB requirement is ridiculous and will almost never be consistently usable against high level competition.
His projectile KB is ok against scrubs I suppose but it still requires a full screen punish (lol). Which means yet again, thats gonna be a tough ask to consistently get when you need it against high level competition.

KBs are pretty damn vital right now in the current meta of this game and for the most part whereas most other characters can pick from 3-4 on command per match Kotal has the 1.
Pretty much this lol character is not as bad ppl are making him out to be lol any whiff punish he gets will melt you lol
character needs MINOR changes VERY minor