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Match-up Discussion How LL beats GL on certain stages

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
Disclaimer: sorry if this is already well known.

when GL gets comboed by lex, lex can finish the combo with b2dd3b and if lex holds down it'll block a wakeup lift and mine will catch him. This only works provided GL doesn't tech roll however lex doesn't have any hard knockdowns so on stages with an interactable wall bounce as it provides lex with a hard knockdown. He can then throw out a close mine after the r1(dunno xbox equivalent) and stuff out any wakeup GL does by holding down. Once the other player has caught on and stopped waking up after this setup you get a free 50/50 vortex once they block the mine(+20 on block I think) which is meterless but optional meter can be used for additional damage. I recommend stages like Wayne manor entrance which don't have respawning interactables for this mu so he doesn't have additional zoning tools to keep you out. Finally you can use this setup as a mixup, once he stops waking up you can even do a very quick f2 to get the overhead low or low overhead DD's earthshake mixup.
 

ShadowBeatz

Dropper of Bass and Bombs
Disclaimer: sorry if this is already well known.

when GL gets comboed by lex, lex can finish the combo with b2dd3b and if lex holds down it'll block a wakeup lift and mine will catch him.
I don't know if this is entirely true. I know I did this set-up a lot against GL but I don't remember the mine staying there after I blocked his lift, at least all the time anyway. I would, however, block his wake-up lift and then punish him.

EDIT: OH I didn't see the b2 part. I would always do 22, so that probably changed up some timings.
 

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
I don't know if this is entirely true. I know I did this set-up a lot against GL but I don't remember the mine staying there after I blocked his lift, at least all the time anyway. I would, however, block his wake-up lift and then punish him.

EDIT: OH I didn't see the b2 part. I would always do 22, so that probably changed up some timings.
Yeah it has to be off a b2dd3b I think, unless I missed a patch what I described still works.
 

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
I don't know if this is entirely true. I know I did this set-up a lot against GL but I don't remember the mine staying there after I blocked his lift, at least all the time anyway. I would, however, block his wake-up lift and then punish him.

EDIT: OH I didn't see the b2 part. I would always do 22, so that probably changed up some timings.
And through this setup he has no choice but to block low if you block on his wakeup so you still get a free vortex.i prefer this to just punishing lift on wakeup with 112 or whatever because through this setup if you block his wakeup he'll be caught by mine so you get a free b3 meterless and possibly unclashable combo
 
Yeah, grav mine is +20 on block.

Of course, if GL blocks the mine, to do Lex's F2 overhead starter you still need to risk a non-hit confirmable overhead into an extremely unsafe special.

It is a vortex for all intents and purposes, because GL is forced to be at -20 to eat a 50/50 or do one of his unsafe wakeups (projectile wakeups don't have invincibility, so he can't use MB chaingun to be safe from the mine), but it's still unsafe if you go with the overhead option. GL's best and only good option here would be to block the mine and attempt to block the 50/50 afterwards. There's just no reason at all to do a wake-up here, because Lex doesn't need to do a meaty attack to have enough advantage for a 50/50 afterwards.
 

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
Yeah, grav mine is +20 on block.

Of course, if GL blocks the mine, to do Lex's F2 overhead starter you still need to risk a non-hit confirmable overhead into an extremely unsafe special.

It is a vortex for all intents and purposes, because GL is forced to be at -20 to eat a 50/50 or do one of his unsafe wakeups (projectile wakeups don't have invincibility, so he can't use MB chaingun to be safe from the mine), but it's still unsafe if you go with the overhead option. GL's best and only good option here would be to block the mine and attempt to block the 50/50 afterwards. There's just no reason at all to do a wake-up here, because Lex doesn't need to do a meaty attack to have enough advantage for a 50/50 afterwards.
you can hit confirm a cc after f2 anywhere on screen, even if it anti-airs them. also you can do b2u3 and hit confirm the d3 as a safer option.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
Yeah, Lex is broke off bg bounces. There's a lot of setups you can use that are almost all in Lex's favor for a reset even without meter. However, I don't think favorable situations off bg bounces change the matchup all that much. At best they might push it to a 5-5. But I can't see how a matchup in Lex's disadvantage turns to his advantage just because of that when it doesn't really change the actual metagame of the matchup.
 

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
Yeah, Lex is broke off bg bounces. There's a lot of setups you can use that are almost all in Lex's favor for a reset even without meter. However, I don't think favorable situations off bg bounces change the matchup all that much. At best they might push it to a 5-5. But I can't see how a matchup in Lex's disadvantage turns to his advantage just because of that when it doesn't really change the actual metagame of the matchup.
Yeah lol it probably would be 5-5, don't know what I was thinking earlier by putting it 2 games higher for lex.